So to get this straight. The insurance company are saying a missed pin event caused damage to the back of the lorry prior to the accident. 4 drivers, driving said lorry all plead no knowledge of damage.
D4 involved in accident, was damage there at the beginning of the shift? yes/no, if yes then not his fault, if no and says he didnt miss the pin, then damaged cause by accident.
D3 Was damage already there? yes/no, if yes then not his fault.
D2 as above
D1 as above.
This is a fairly simplified version of events/questions and relies on drivers telling the truth and generally doesnt work anyway. I highly doubt the damage was caused pre accident, after all the lorry was hit at roughly 40mph by a fully laden 32ton tipper, causing severe damage to trailer, fifth wheel and dislodging the seat. The impact was severe enough to twist the trailer chassis, bend fitfh wheel mounting pins and totally dislodging the seat from the mounting box, as well as, writing off the tipper. I imagine the tipper also had bent chassis and destroyed the cab causing uneconomical repairs. Stands to reason that damage was caused to the rear of the cab/front of trailer in the incident.
To cause enough damage to the rear of the cab from a missed pin event you would have to be either going fairly fast or not notice you missed and just kept on going til the cab was pushed forwards a fair bit.
Do some measuring, which distance is shorter, the back of the cab to the front of the fridge or the rear lights on the unit the landing legs. If the legs are closer then if someone missed the pin a while ago they would’ve smashed the lenses too.
I’m not sure on the physics of an artic rear ender, surely if the 5th wheel bolts are bent then the 5th wheel could well have moved forward in the crash and so could the trailer/fridge, hitting the back of the cab if it’s really close coupled. Also not sure how much backwards movement there is in the driver section of the cab, obiously it’s on struts and is moveable for engine work so it moves forwards, there’s a good chance it can also move backwards a bit when stationary and hit from behind (like your head does). Still seems strange that given there’s been a serious accident with a smashed up trailer and damage to the unit 5th and driver seat the managers priority is to start finding a driver to discipline for some apparently old damage.
Looking for the wrong answer doesn’t surprise me in the least, having seen too many companies top heavy with non productive staff (though not to the same degree of lunacy as the uncivil service, quangos and local authorities), they find their own little personal crusades to justify their non jobs.
Swampey2418, you really are a nob, why don’t you keep your opinions to your self. You make assumptions and slag people off without knowing what you are talking about.
Dave, if you are reading this you are aware of all the facts. All I wanted was for someone to point me to any info on any incidents similar to this so I have a point of reference. Instead I got ■■■■■■■■■ that have no idea what they are talking about making stupid comments. I wish I have never bothered to hope that a site for " professional " drivers may be able to help. No disrespect to the sensible replies but please do not add anything else to this because I am going to delete my account.
How can a missed pin wreck the drivers seat and the 5th wheel unless it was moved by a VERY big weight from behind? Think about it OP.
Driver-Once-More:
How can a missed pin wreck the drivers seat and the 5th wheel unless it was moved by a VERY big weight from behind? Think about it OP.
No-one is saying the missed pin event caused all that damage…
I know, that’s the point I was trying to make
I think your boss’s anger would be more usefully directed at his insurance company and the ■■■■■■ of an assessor. How on earth have they allowed a vehicle with a broken driver’s seat, bent fifth wheel bolts and a suspected twisted chassis to remain in the owner’s possession? And they are arguing over damage to the rear of the cab in an effort to mitigate their financial liability. Unless it is only a couple of years old the vehicle is a total loss, or not far short of it by the sound of it.
If an eight wheeler hit the back of you at 40 then I would have thought that both vehicles would have suffered so much energy going through them that both vehicles would have been hugely damaged.
The trailer might have been lifted up with the rear of the cab compressed down and along with everything stretching with that much energy it could have it the back of the cab pretty hard?
I wish that some of you would sit down & read what has been posted,This vehicle had only been in service fourteen days.
The OP recovered this vehicle & tipped it before he returned to yard, I examined this vehicle, & I have no doubt that this damage was caused by a missed pin incident.
This vehicle was off the road for over four weeks, we now have it back, still with damage to the rear of cab.
Although I have been cleared of any suspicion, I will still be front & centre to-morrow morning,I will be with a witness.
If D4 Had done his checks more thoroughly then D3 would have been right in the frame, even now he is still denying blame, but we know who is responsible.
Dave.
davemackie:
I wish that some of you would sit down & read what has been posted,This vehicle had only been in service fourteen days.
The OP recovered this vehicle & tipped it before he returned to yard, I examined this vehicle, & I have no doubt that this damage was caused by a missed pin incident.
This vehicle was off the road for over four weeks, we now have it back, still with damage to the rear of cab.
Although I have been cleared of any suspicion, I will still be front & centre to-morrow morning,I will be with a witness.
If D4 Had done his checks more thoroughly then D3 would have been right in the frame, even now he is still denying blame, but we know who is responsible.
Dave.
So did it or did it not get rammed up the arse by an 8 wheeler doing 40 mph, and did the OP manage to drive it, presumably with bent trailer chassis and extensive damage to the trailer rear, plus a sheered off drivers seat inside a buckled unit or did i imagine that bit.
Are there two threads here, one where some numpty has missed the pin (Christ knows how they do it, well we do know it’s called negligence/incompetence) and another incident involving the same vehicle where its been rammed up the arse.
Juddian:
Are there two threads here, one where some numpty has missed the pin (Christ knows how they do it, well we do know it’s called negligence/incompetence) .
,
What about complacence, I nearly did a missed pin event a few weeks ago. I hook up using the air suspension lowered and raise as I go under the rubbing plate, I’d lowered to drop 1 trailer and raised once clear, then as I reversed onto the next I lowered, but in between doing that and then wanting to raise the suspension to final click I must have caught the off button on the hand held controls, hence I’m going backwards and assuming its going up, but in fact nothing was happening. I thought it didn’t feel right so stop dead, got out and the Pin was resting on the 5th wheel Cab side off the jaws, another 6" and it would have been over, and with our set ups, a set off lights smashed 
. Though no harm was done, it made Me be little less Complacent 
eddie snax:
Juddian:
Are there two threads here, one where some numpty has missed the pin (Christ knows how they do it, well we do know it’s called negligence/incompetence) .
,
What about complacence, I nearly did a missed pin event a few weeks ago. I hook up using the air suspension lowered and raise as I go under the rubbing plate, I’d lowered to drop 1 trailer and raised once clear, then as I reversed onto the next I lowered, but in between doing that and then wanting to raise the suspension to final click I must have caught the off button on the hand held controls, hence I’m going backwards and assuming its going up, but in fact nothing was happening. I thought it didn’t feel right so stop dead, got out and the Pin was resting on the 5th wheel Cab side off the jaws, another 6" and it would have been over, and with our set ups, a set off lights smashed . Though no harm was done, it made Me be little less Complacent
Complacency? NO. You didn’t hit the bugger.
You felt something wasn’t right, presumably because you actually give a toss and maybe like a dwindling number of drivers take a pride in your work, so you stopped and checked…the clowns i’m on about i’ve seen them in our yard, reversing up purely on their mirrors alone to pick up a fully loaded tanker or curtain sider, just keep going till it stops…you’d think something might go ‘ting’’ in what passes for a mind when that fully loaded trailer isn’t offering any resistance at all but no, they can’t be arsed to open the bloody door or lean out the window so they have no idea how far they are from pick up point…let alone actually get their fat arse out and have a look see whats going on Christ no.
Juddian:
eddie snax:
Juddian:
Are there two threads here, one where some numpty has missed the pin (Christ knows how they do it, well we do know it’s called negligence/incompetence) .
,
What about complacence, I nearly did a missed pin event a few weeks ago. I hook up using the air suspension lowered and raise as I go under the rubbing plate, I’d lowered to drop 1 trailer and raised once clear, then as I reversed onto the next I lowered, but in between doing that and then wanting to raise the suspension to final click I must have caught the off button on the hand held controls, hence I’m going backwards and assuming its going up, but in fact nothing was happening. I thought it didn’t feel right so stop dead, got out and the Pin was resting on the 5th wheel Cab side off the jaws, another 6" and it would have been over, and with our set ups, a set off lights smashed . Though no harm was done, it made Me be little less Complacent
Complacency? NO. You didn’t hit the bugger.
You felt something wasn’t right, presumably because you actually give a toss and maybe like a dwindling number of drivers take a pride in your work, so you stopped and checked…the clowns i’m on about i’ve seen them in our yard, reversing up purely on their mirrors alone to pick up a fully loaded tanker or curtain sider, just keep going till it stops…you’d think something might go ‘ting’’ in what passes for a mind when that fully loaded trailer isn’t offering any resistance at all but no, they can’t be arsed to open the bloody door or lean out the window so they have no idea how far they are from pick up point…let alone actually get their fat arse out and have a look see whats going on Christ no.
That’s decent off you to say, and I do care as you suggest, which is why I try to keep to lead up ramps tidy. But I was so close to that annoying crunch, and I should have taken that little bit more care, but no harm done
Juddian:
eddie snax:
Juddian:
Are there two threads here, one where some numpty has missed the pin (Christ knows how they do it, well we do know it’s called negligence/incompetence) .
,
What about complacence, I nearly did a missed pin event a few weeks ago. I hook up using the air suspension lowered and raise as I go under the rubbing plate, I’d lowered to drop 1 trailer and raised once clear, then as I reversed onto the next I lowered, but in between doing that and then wanting to raise the suspension to final click I must have caught the off button on the hand held controls, hence I’m going backwards and assuming its going up, but in fact nothing was happening. I thought it didn’t feel right so stop dead, got out and the Pin was resting on the 5th wheel Cab side off the jaws, another 6" and it would have been over, and with our set ups, a set off lights smashed . Though no harm was done, it made Me be little less Complacent
Complacency? NO. You didn’t hit the bugger.
You felt something wasn’t right, presumably because you actually give a toss and maybe like a dwindling number of drivers take a pride in your work, so you stopped and checked…the clowns i’m on about i’ve seen them in our yard, reversing up purely on their mirrors alone to pick up a fully loaded tanker or curtain sider, just keep going till it stops…you’d think something might go ‘ting’’ in what passes for a mind when that fully loaded trailer isn’t offering any resistance at all but no, they can’t be arsed to open the bloody door or lean out the window so they have no idea how far they are from pick up point…let alone actually get their fat arse out and have a look see whats going on Christ no.
I think from memory the last/only artics I used on air were DAF 85/95’s.Everything before that was on steel.The bit I don’t get is all this raising of units on the suspension before lowering the legs and dropping the trailer which automatically creates a dodgy high trailer situation when re coupling.When as I remember it,like everyone else,I just left the suspension height at normal when lowering the legs and left the usual slight gap under the legs when lowered and then dropped the trailer just as in the case of steel.Which then left the trailer at the right sort of height to re couple.Although admittedly all had fifth wheel ramps and no one was ever worried about some grease getting on top of wheel arches.The key in all cases being that you have to be absolutely sure that the trailer is actually lifted off its legs either by the ramps or the fifth wheel ‘before’ reversing against the pin.Which still leaves the question what changed and why the need for all the messing about with suspension heights when we never needed to,nor could have even if we’d have wanted to,with steel suspension. 
Ah the good old days of steel springs, when fit for purpose pick up ramps were essential…and woe betide the bloke who wound the legs down fully when dropping an empty.
Too many tractors i see now are sans pick up ramps at all, not ripped off either, just never fitted from new.
Our biggest problem is the Scani drivers (Scani’s raise the whole ride height about 3" when the mid lifter is raised) in our yard who never but never think to drop the mid lift axle before lowering the legs on an empty, so every single other make tractor that goes to pick the things up will slide straight under…they look sky high when you approach them, no limboing required to walk under.
Many times i can’t even reach the things with my tractor at full height so halve to wind the trailer down to some semblance of normality…when you mention it you get that vacant look that Father Dougal was so good at, how they haven’t wound the legs completely out their guides before now i haven’t a clue.
