I see a lot that have not extented the rear guards,what is the offence for this,and how much for the fine.?
do you mean 45’ box , as far as i know nothing , as they still get transported on older 40’ skellys , like when i picked these cars up , and 2 and half feet over is not an offence
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yes that is the ones,do the police not pull you over?
never been stoped with a 45’ , but not driven a truck for year and half now .
Yes this is a fine, the rear pull out bumpers are there for a reason and must be pulled out otherwise u risk being fined, i do containers all the time and a mate of mine was stopped and fined for this very thing, fixed £60 if i remember, the company then put up a notice saying all rear bumpers must be pulled out.
I often see many ppl going about with the bumpers not pulled out and on trailers with no pull out bumper, also seen a few on flat trailers.
Believe me people, this is a fine if they wanted to stop you for it.
It’s not a legal requirement, as the container is classed as a 45ft load on a 40ft trailer, therefore the overhang is perfectly legal. However, ever since that crash on the M25 a few years ago where a Transit minivan went under the back of said overhang, killing the driver, it’s frowned upon to not pull it out. If you were to have an accident, it would go against you if you hadn’t taken every precaution open to you; it’s a bit like ignoring “advisory” (non-red circled) speed limits on motorway matrix signs, it’s fine until something goes wrong.
The usual reason for not extending these things is because they get stuck. It varies from manufacturer to manufacturer as to how strong the design is - our Dennisons have round bars and are pretty robust, but the SDCs are box-shaped and you can practically bend them just by looking at them. Even with the Dennisons our workshop spend half their working lives fabricating/repairing replacements. That’s all well and good for us - we’re a Short Sea shipping line and a good half of our boxes are 45s - but people on Deep Sea will only as a general rule be trying to pull out their cowcatchers out every once in a blue moon, so many will have corroded into place or simply been jammed there through accumulation of road muck. Even ours suffer from the latter problem, and often have to be relubricated at service.
JamieR85:
Yes this is a fine, the rear pull out bumpers are there for a reason and must be pulled out otherwise u risk being fined, i do containers all the time and a mate of mine was stopped and fined for this very thing, fixed £60 if i remember, the company then put up a notice saying all rear bumpers must be pulled out.I often see many ppl going about with the bumpers not pulled out and on trailers with no pull out bumper, also seen a few on flat trailers.
Believe me people, this is a fine if they wanted to stop you for it.
That’s interesting and must be a new development. Any idea what the offence was he was fined under? I know our local Senior Traffic Examiner (who spends a good amount of time drinking tea in our garage, thanks to his friendship with our very-recently-retired Fleet Engineer) has said it’s as I posted above, and on the odd occasion where our drivers have had a problem whilst running out of our Southern port all week and have been pulled, nothing has been said beyond pretty much the same thing… 
Not heard of any of our drivers getting pulled for not using it and some of them don’t bother. My trailer is a Dennison like Lucy’s and I don’t have a problem with it but some do get stuck through lack of use. The extending rack at the front for the susies I keep out all the time because it keeps them away from the grease.
Lucy:
JamieR85:
Yes this is a fine, the rear pull out bumpers are there for a reason and must be pulled out otherwise u risk being fined, i do containers all the time and a mate of mine was stopped and fined for this very thing, fixed £60 if i remember, the company then put up a notice saying all rear bumpers must be pulled out.I often see many ppl going about with the bumpers not pulled out and on trailers with no pull out bumper, also seen a few on flat trailers.
Believe me people, this is a fine if they wanted to stop you for it.
That’s interesting and must be a new development. Any idea what the offence was he was fined under? I know our local Senior Traffic Examiner (who spends a good amount of time drinking tea in our garage, thanks to his friendship with our very-recently-retired Fleet Engineer) has said it’s as I posted above, and on the odd occasion where our drivers have had a problem whilst running out of our Southern port all week and have been pulled, nothing has been said beyond pretty much the same thing…
Ive no idea what the actual offence was but i know for a fact he was fined for it, said the rear bumper was there for a reason, if it wasnt needed it wouldnt b there. As i said the company was also informed and told to notify all drivers that they MUST b pulled out or would also risk a fine. I always run with it pulled out, only takes a few seconds to do and if its stuck etc then i just go 2 the garage and get them to make it move with mallets if necessary. If its on a trailer with no bar or a flat trailer then it has to come off and get put on a suitable trailer!
Can you find out and let us know, please? Which offence, that is? I’m genuinely curious, and it’d be good to know so we can spread the word.
Lucy:
Can you find out and let us know, please? Which offence, that is? I’m genuinely curious, and it’d be good to know so we can spread the word.
Ill see if i can find out, it was about a year ago and im no longer with that company, im with another container company now but ill see if i can find out.
JamieR85:
Ive no idea what the actual offence was but i know for a fact he was fined for it, said the rear bumper was there for a reason, if it wasnt needed it wouldnt b there. As i said the company was also informed and told to notify all drivers that they MUST b pulled out or would also risk a fine. I always run with it pulled out, only takes a few seconds to do and if its stuck etc then i just go 2 the garage and get them to make it move with mallets if necessary. If its on a trailer with no bar or a flat trailer then it has to come off and get put on a suitable trailer[/b]!
[/quote]
Not so sure about that Jamie.
Afaik the container forms/is the “load”. As such you’d be well within the overhang allowed.
It’s possibly a C&U issue, if the trailer is fitted with one and the driver doesn’t use it
As for refusing to take a 45’ on a 40’ skel/psk without a pull out bumper, I can’t see many firms acquiescing to your refusal to do so.
No Offence, but can you furnish us with some sort of legislation? I have searched all of my normal points of reference from the VOSA sanctions, to Construction and Use Regulations. I even delved into EC Legislation but found no changes to this. There is a new directive which comes under type approval for articulated trailers and rigid vehicles but it doesnt mention Skeletals or Containers. (Council Directive 70/221/EEC) covers strengh and construction of underrun bumpers.
What we are talking about is carrying a 45’ Iso container (load) on a 40’ Skeletal trailer. The load has less than 1 metre overhang so needs no extra markings or protection.
As Neil so often reminds us, if it isnt written in the legislation, then it isnt law, legal or even necessary. This one goes onto the same page as the landing leg and how many turns it requires.
As I said.
No Offence James
Here we go again…
Lucy"]It’s not a legal requirement, as the container is classed as a 45ft load on a 40ft trailer, therefore the overhang is perfectly legal. However, ever since that crash on the M25 a few years ago where a Transit minivan went under the back of said overhang, killing the driver, it’s frowned upon to not pull it out.
I seem to remember it killing not just the driver but about 5 or 6 passengers aswell. 
stagedriver:
Here we go again…
Wherever we are going it is only a maximum of 2’ 6’’ overhang at each end 
Goaty:
JamieR85:
Ive no idea what the actual offence was but i know for a fact he was fined for it, said the rear bumper was there for a reason, if it wasnt needed it wouldnt b there. As i said the company was also informed and told to notify all drivers that they MUST b pulled out or would also risk a fine. I always run with it pulled out, only takes a few seconds to do and if its stuck etc then i just go 2 the garage and get them to make it move with mallets if necessary. If its on a trailer with no bar or a flat trailer then it has to come off and get put on a suitable trailer[/b]!
[/quote]
Not so sure about that Jamie.
Afaik the container forms/is the “load”. As such you’d be well within the overhang allowed.
It’s possibly a C&U issue, if the trailer is fitted with one and the driver doesn’t use it
As for refusing to take a 45’ on a 40’ skel/psk without a pull out bumper, I can’t see many firms acquiescing to your refusal to do so.
[/quote]
Well when its the company putting notices up telling drivers to make sure they are pulled out then its not a problem refusing to take it out
And can all you people who are saying it is not an offence tell me why the pull out bumper is there if it doesnt have to be used, just dont see why something would be fitted thats not needed?
As above, im sure that accident killed a few people, so that brings us to the question of does this mean that the side bars on a trailer arent needed either? Its just that i know its also an offence to have the front corner of these side bars missing.
Afaik the container forms/is the “load”. As such you’d be well within the overhang allowed.
I have a link here, if you look right at the bottom at the section titled overhang ull see that containers are not considered “the load”, they are part of the vehicle.
transportsfriend.org/road/dims.html
Quote is: “Case law has indicated that a demountable body or container which can be lifted on and off a vehicle is not a load but part of the vehicle and has to be included when calculating the vehicle’s overhang.”
JamieR85:
Afaik the container forms/is the “load”. As such you’d be well within the overhang allowed.I have a link here, if you look right at the bottom at the section titled overhang ull see that containers are not considered “the load”, they are part of the vehicle.
transportsfriend.org/road/dims.html
Quote is: “Case law has indicated that a demountable body or container which can be lifted on and off a vehicle is not a load but part of the vehicle and has to be included when calculating the vehicle’s overhang.”
That is indeed correct, that’s why the front corners of a 13.6m box are chamfered in and why newer multi pin skellies have an extra set of pins solely for 13.6m or 45’ boxes 
The law was changed to stop the likes of Jan de Rooy pushing the boundaries with demountable bodies, before that a container was part of the load, now it is part of the vehicle
newmercman:
That is indeed correct, that’s why the front corners of a 13.6m box are chamfered in and why newer multi pin skellies have an extra set of pins solely for 13.6m or 45’ boxes
45ft and 13.6m boxes are actually supposed to go on different pins. The front ones are theoretically for 45fts ONLY, and there are big signs - certainly on our trailers - saying they are NOT to be used for 13.6 swapbodies.