Does anyone agree with me that matrix signs should be banned for good?
I recon the info is incorrect fo at least 80% of the time, and some of the ■■■■ on them is either irrelivent or common sense.
And how much do the cost US the tax payer to install, run, and maintain?
Thereal-john:
Does anyone agree with me that matrix signs should be banned for good?
I recon the info is incorrect fo at least 80% of the time, and some of the [zb] on them is either irrelivent or common sense.And how much do the cost US the tax payer to install, run, and maintain?
No they are a great idea, poorly operated.
a 4 year old could operate them better see my thread for northampton services lol
On the M6 southbound this morning and the matrix signs said M6 closed j7 to j6 M6 toll clear. I stayed on the M6 as it was 4am and got to j7 and was all clear no closure. Are they not making enough money on the toll they have to lie to get people using it? ■■■■■■ disgrace.
I’m not sure whether to laugh or get annoyed by the “real-time travel” type that you see approaching large towns and cities; When there’s no problem, Oxfordshire CC just put waffle on them such as “Think bike”, “Don’t use your phone”, “Oxfordshire CC-reducing congestion…” yes, but distracting drivers by putting stupid messages on matrix boards.
sammy:
On the M6 southbound this morning and the matrix signs said M6 closed j7 to j6 M6 toll clear. I stayed on the M6 as it was 4am and got to j7 and was all clear no closure. Are they not making enough money on the toll they have to lie to get people using it? [zb] disgrace.
Roadworks finishing early & not taking closures off so they can claim overtime? Happens more than you would imagine.
The Tso is tucked up in bed with the phone off usually 
Ring the hail line to complain or get biffo to peek into the logs
Would of been nice if they turned them on last night to let people know that the A19 was closed 
It doesn’t make sense that they have CCTV to view the traffic but still they don’t put accurate info on the signs.
Every morning without fail on the M5 past Taunton they put “Queue Ahead” regardless of whether there is a queue or not. This message seems to be programmed to display every day between 8am and 9am. It’s nonsense and it makes people accustomed to disregard the signs.
Cosmic:
It doesn’t make sense that they have CCTV to view the traffic but still they don’t put accurate info on the signs.Every morning without fail on the M5 past Taunton they put “Queue Ahead” regardless of whether there is a queue or not. This message seems to be programmed to display every day between 8am and 9am. It’s nonsense and it makes people accustomed to disregard the signs.
As far as I known those messages are triggered by the WIM sensors in road, so if for some reason traffic slows down it triggers the messages. Stand to be corrected by biffo.
The first time I saw one of THESE signs coming down the hill on the Northbound M1 J11, I smirked - but stopped when the overturned car in the fast lane looked exactly the same as the icon overhead! 
Below is an email conversation I had with a HA bod on the subject of matrix signs and road closures.
Subject: Info, or lack of Hail log no: 13247482
The M5 is closed tonight at junction 5 northbound, but you already know that. It’s just a pity I didn’t. At no point between the M50 and J5 was there a matrix sign informing me of this. Plenty telling me to use caution because of spray but none to say the motorway is closed. Priorities eh?
And to a trucker who is short of time and aiming for Frankley services this is a problem. Or to any other motorist who is switched on, and wants to avoid the inevitable jam. Just one sign, just one, before Strensham services would’ve sufficed. Is that really too much to ask?
How about you practice what you preach, and THINK?
Yours, DaiDap
Dear Mr. Dap,
Thank you for your email. We regret that you were unsatisfied with the signing on our network on the night of the 20th December 2011.
We were informed of the closure of the M5 Junction 5 at 22:38 hours, and as such numerous VMS were set, including the M5 Northbound before and after Strensham Services.
In addition to this, some VMS were being used for spray related messages, as these take precedence in our ways of working, for safety reasons. Also, immediately prior to Junction 5 there were some MIDAS messages being displayed. These signs display variable speed limits which are triggered to avoid the building up of queues and to encourage drivers to slow down so they don’t collide with the back of queues. Again, these take precedence due to the safety nature of the messages.
However, even though some safety related signs were being displayed, there was still a total of 7 VMS showing the M5 Junction 5 closure message between J9-5 which were displayed all night.
Therefore, it may have been the case that as you were driving at around 23:00 this may unfortunately be a timing issue. There is the possibility that you had passed some of the signs just before they were being set to warn of the closure. This often explains some of the complaints I have seen. Our current policy states that we will not sign for a closure until the closure is confirmed as being live, and therefore there is a danger that some drivers may miss the signs.
I recognise this is a potential flaw within our way of working, however this had been raised to be looked into, I believe. Having said this, I cannot guarantee if we will change how we sign in relation to this specific issue as we are very keen to avoid signing for roadwork’s and closures until we are sure they are going ahead, to avoid potentially misleading the public.
I hope this answers your request. Thank you for your email and please feel free to respond to this email if you have any further queries.
The Highways Agency value all customer feedback and comments, and aim to respond promptly to all enquiries and act on feedback where possible.
Many thanks again,
Andrew Rattan Highways Agency | National Traffic Operations Centre | 3 Ridgeway, Quinton Bus. Park | Birmingham | B32 1AF Rattan,
Dear Mr. Rattan,
Thank you for your reply. I joined the M5 at J8 at approximately 22.05 and left at J5 around 20 minutes later, so it was before you were informed. Are the HA not involved in motorway closures whether they be the result of roadworks or an accident? The cones looked like they’d been there some time as the cones lorry was nowhere to be seen, so the closure was definitely ‘on’ well before I got there. Although I appreciate there may be other agencies involved who are not the quickest in keeping you abreast of the situation.
Hi David,
Yes, it is our contractors who carry out the roadworks on our behalf. Therefore, the general process involves them informing us of roadworks they plan to do in advance (so we can disseminate usually a week before the works), and then informing us when the closure goes live so we can sign for it.
It appears, as you indicate, that this is one of the occasions where the contractor has not informed us quickly enough of the closure. This will be forwarded onto the relevant contractor and region for them to look into.
Thanks again for your email.
Please get in contact again if anything similar arises.
Kind regards,
Andrew Rattan
schrodingers cat:
No they are a great idea, poorly operated.
^^^^^ what he said 
The Ha policy is that ‘spray slow down’ is not used routinely, only for a ‘specific’ problem/area.
Operators have taken to using them incorrectly against policy, end of.
speedyguy:
The Ha policy is that ‘spray slow down’ is not used routinely, only for a ‘specific’ problem/area.Operators have taken to using them incorrectly against policy, end of.
You will of course be able to quote “Policy” on setting spray signs.■■
Depending on the operator, signs are set either,
A) If large amounts of spray is seen to be kicked up by vehicles, & cleared once no longer a problem.
B) Only if a patrol / police patrol shouts up for them, and will only clear them if a patrol tells then to.
The “POLICY” says that SPEEDS will not be set for any weather event, unless authorised by an OM.
Now lets get things straight on who has first authority on the VMS message.
There are certain messages that are automatically set by sensors / cameras./midas.
Anything that has “Queue” or “Queues” in the message is usually set my MIDAS.
The Messages “12 miles to J26, 10 mins” type of message, is again automatically set by cameras similar to ANPNR type cameras (nothing to do with speed enforcement)
Any message similar to “Don’t drink & drive” “Don’t hog the middle lane” “Think bike” is set by the NTIC (Nation Traffic Information Centre) and has been planned for certain areas were the high-ups believe most benifit will come.
Most signs for High Winds, are set automatically (Well they are in our region) Some FOG signs are also auto sensed
Now we get down to the priority levels;…(highest number wins!)
Highest priority is “ONCOMING VEHICLE” @ 46 this will overwrite anything!
NTIC for the VMS half mile prior to a junction @ 41
NTIC diversions @ 36
NTIC information (ie Brands Hatch event 4th June, queues likely) priority @ 11
The auto signs, about journey times. priority @ 11
Signs informing of no fuel at svs. priority @ 6
Now everything that informs you of debris, accidents exit closures, obstructions, skid risk, winds, roadworks and all warning messages SET BY THE RCC not NTIC, have a priority of 30
MIDAS comes in @ priority 15
Floods, Fog*, Gritting* Snow, Spray* come in IF SET INDIVIDUALLY AT PRIORITY 13,
**This is where the problem lies, most spray signs are as as “plans” ie similar to an itinerary in a sat nav,the VMS that will show “spray, slow down” are predetermined in these plans for certain area’s, so if the plan is set, the various predetermined VMS’s will light up “spray” As these are RCC plans, they have the priority of 30, and will overwrite anything previously set with either the same authority, or lower. This is a problem and has been reported, but the wheels turn very slowly if at all!
Now we get to roadworks closures.
Over recent nights, each night we’d had an average of 45 plus sets of roadworks to signal for, with only 2+ operators to deal with them.
If a sliproad or carriageway is going to be closed, as well as setting the signs, disabling MIDAS, setting the HDS lower, we have to inform all the relevant emergency services that would possible use that part of the network. ie Police, Fire & Ambo. we also have to inform the NTIC who only want to know as the closure is set. They will then inform the media, put it on the internet sites, and set strategic VMS (You’ve all seen these, telling you of closures at the other side of the country)
It can take 10 - 15 minutes to set a big closure and inform all the people that need telling, so there can be a delay in the information getting out there. This is also true when the roadworks are removed, 95% of the roadworks crews only call in to have the signs & signals removed after they’ve removed all their cones, then drove up to the next junction, turned back to the previous junction to go through again and clear there advance hard signage, we then get the call to say the c/way is now open, so we have to make all the calls to the relevant parties, again a delay.
Anyone who can get it to work better (Yes, I know it should!) please apply to the HA
Look on the bright side the vacancies will be advertised soon 
.
One of your ex pals working on the floor below me is glad to be out of the battery farm 
Wasn’t spray specifically put on for the M60 eastern side due to the ‘problems’ of standing water.
I read the policy front to back a couple of times after ‘truckyboy’ ran into the back of the coach knowing that stranded vehicle couldn’t be set if not ‘verified’ only incident, that didn’t work well.
Similiar to ‘debris’ being set which is more useful than the ‘incident’ they began to set which could mean anything, the strapline is supposed to read ‘informed travellers’ not the guessing game 
.
I’ll have another root in the ‘policy book’ tomorrow & chat to the “head of policies” 'oppo to ask again where it mentions spray plans, twice I have been categorically told it is being used incorrectly by rcc’s.
To be honest I don’t think they should be used as if ‘numpties’ cannot drive to conditions i’d be surprised if they have grasped the art of reading
The matrix signs (VMS) are basically a sound piece of technology but poorly operated by the HA due to the Traffic Officer Service being managed by risk averse, bureaucrats who only think about process and procedure rather than safety and traffic.
This topic comes up so regular it is unreal, maybe there is a way we could levy some pressure to have this fixed once and for all via the RHA or something, surely there is something we can do because it really is a day to day PITA, and as we all know can cause dangerous situations (like I have outlined in a previous thread with personal experience before).
There must be someone or somewhere we can turn to to have such things improved upon, the current level of stupidity seems to be getting worse, not better !!!
Car fire on the A9 today near Aviemore, radio bulletin said it was closed and police were diverting traffic, turns out they had a very brief closure and no diversion, plod then directed traffic past the scene (vehicle was in a layby, fire service were part on the carriageway). Two miles past the incident is a matrix sign “Road closed, follow diversion, drive safely”
One big gripe with matrix signs is when they give a journey time, usually based on about 55-60mph average speed, about as much use as a chocolate fire guard when the destination given is 70 miles further along the single carriageway.
Gouls:
Car fire on the A9 today near Aviemore, radio bulletin said it was closed and police were diverting traffic, turns out they had a very brief closure and no diversion, plod then directed traffic past the scene (vehicle was in a layby, fire service were part on the carriageway). Two miles past the incident is a matrix sign “Road closed, follow diversion, drive safely”One big gripe with matrix signs is when they give a journey time, usually based on about 55-60mph average speed, about as much use as a chocolate fire guard when the destination given is 70 miles further along the single carriageway.
Aviemore is in Scotland the last time I heard, nothing to do with the HA, we stop at the border.
Journey times are worked out at a MAXIMUM of 70mph, if the average speed of traffic along that route drops, the time increases, that’s what they do, it’s automatic.
Wasn’t spray specifically put on for the M60 eastern side due to the ‘problems’ of standing water.
Nope, spray is a general setting, possibly “Surface water, slow down” but the problem is; too many letters! 95% of the VMS around the M60 are MS2’s. ie: 2 rows of 12 characters, (include spaces) There are a few MS3 with 3 rows of 15 spaces that will take this message, but they’re between J12 - J18.
I read the policy front to back a couple of times after ‘truckyboy’ ran into the back of the coach knowing that stranded vehicle couldn’t be set if not ‘verified’ only incident, that didn’t work well.
If the location was vague, ie J# to J# for a broken down vehicle live lane, then 50’s will be set for “Incident” now if drivers don’t open their eyes to watch for something that COULD be there, it’s not the HA fault.
Similiar to ‘debris’ being set which is more useful than the ‘incident’ they began to set which could mean anything, the strapline is supposed to read ‘informed travellers’ not the guessing game
I agree completely, but if you check policy (which came down from ACPO initially) it states that “INCIDENT” should be set until confirmed. From the start we set “Debris” until a few years ago when we were (on pain of death) made to set as per policy. It took them some time to realise that it was better to set the reason for the signals instead of “Incident” for debris & accident. Again, it comes down to how specific the location is given to us.
If on the other hand a location is know by someone actually giving a markerpost, then policy says that speeds can be reduced and the VMS changed to “obstruction” but no lane closures until confirmed by either, cctv, patrol, police, ISU with a markerpost location.
Once the location is confirmed by either CCTV, or a patrol confirming the marker-post, the relevant lane closure is set, with the VMS changed to either “Lane # closed” or/and “stranded vehicle” or even both, “stranded veh” prior to the actual signal with the lane closure set both on the signal & the VMS (That’s how I do it)
I’ll have another root in the ‘policy book’ tomorrow & chat to the “head of policies” 'oppo to ask again where it mentions spray plans, twice I have been categorically told it is being used incorrectly by rcc’s.
“Head of polices” don’t get me going!!! Maybe they should ask if they’re practical before they decide on them!!
And if RCC’s are setting VMS wrong, why is no-one being told about it? (Well at our RCC anyway)
Signal setting is checked all the time by a quality team, each operator constantly has a number of their setting checked at random, both for being correct, set within the time limit from the start of the log, and cleared within the time limit from the request to clear being made. The average for our RCC is normally between 93% to 97%
Here’s a good one and although the censor will get it, it wasn’t censored on the sign