Manual entries for a van

Monday i was in a vehicle with a digicard. Yesterday i wasin a van with no tacho. Today i am in a vehicle with a tacho in and i have been told i have to fill in manual entries for the van. If i do that on todays vehicle wont the registration show up as todays vehicle meaning the entry for the van will mean i was in a different vehicle. Whats the procedure for doing a manual entry

Your time in the van is entered as duty time and break time.
Assuming of course that the van is under 7.5T gross weight.

Driving time is only counted in actual LGVs not vans or cars.

You can only put a manual entry into the tachograph when you insert your driver card at the start of the shift, so assuming that you’ve already inserted your card and started work it’s too late and cannot be done.

Having said that, whether or not you’ve yet inserted your driver card into the tachograph I would recommend that you use the ? symbol for the time from the end of the last tachograph shift to the start of todays shift and do the manual entry for yesterdays work on a printout or chart.

Why 7.5t when drivers hours apply over 3.5t?

Sorry my error.
3.5 T

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Don’t use the “?” symbol for anything, it means “unknown acrivity” and DVSA want full records of all activity, they do not want “unknown” anything.

Do a printout in today’s vehicle and record your van driving as other work using the grid pattern on the back of a tacho printout and annotate it as appropriate.

https://www.rha.uk.net/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=5MaDi1NLdRc%3D&portalid=0#:~:text=Records%20must%20identify%20all%20the,each%2024-hour%20period.”

For work done where a manual entry cannot be input into the tachograph and manual entries are made on printouts/charts/attestation form the ? symbol is the only symbol that can be used to show that there are records that cannot be accounted for on the tachograph.


Agreed :+1:

As we have already discovered, there are times when “?” is the only possible option that can be used without falsifying records…

And you know this with your many years of extensive experience of the industry do you? :roll_eyes:

You haven’t “discovered” anything, you’re just repeating what Tachograph says, and much as he is undoubtedly experienced, he is retired (from what he himself has said) and from previous discussions I’ve had with him, I know he isn’t keeping up to date with changes in legislation, such as:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2020/1054/oj

Which is explained very clearly here

Your repetition of what Tachograph has many times previously said, is just not true, it’s outdated information. You have repeatedly failed to understand that “?” denotes “unknown activity” and that DVSA require “full records of all activities”, they do not want “unknown” anything. That should be clear enough for anyone.

As I said last time, do what you want, it doesn’t affect me, but don’t cry about it if DVSA enroll you on their “training via the wallet” scheme.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/661544ae2138732c33031b75/dvsa-enforcement-sanctions-policy.pdf

As I’ve said, I no longer need to use “?” during manual entries, but when I would work for 3 weeks without stepping foot in a lorry, it was the only possible option for me to use on the tachograph when performing my first manual entry back in the lorry.

I would record the time as “?” on the digicard, but carry tachograph paper with my full breakdown of work written on there.

I don’t understand how else it can be done without falsifying the digicard record and recording it all as rest?

No-ones disputing that full records need to be kept and I’ve never said anything different, in fact in my first post in this thread I made the point that manual entries for none tachograph work days should be done on printouts or charts if necessary [paraphrasing].

The ? symbol is the only symbol that can be used to explain that there are records other than those recorded on the digital tachograph.

The unknown (?) symbol simply means activities that, for whatever reason, cannot or are not recorded on the digital tachograph so should be recorded by other means, indeed the VDO tachograph manual even tells you to use the ? symbol for unaccounted time during manual entries.



I’m not sure why you’ve posted images of the sanctions policy that relates to when a driver card is damaged so cannot be used :confused:

After a three week hiatus you should be using the Attestation Letter, which again, I’ve posted about before (multiple times)
https://www.rha.uk.net/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=5MaDi1NLdRc%3D&portalid=0

And record it using what mode on the tachograph when performing your manual entry?

FFS… The Attestation Letter IS the manual entry

So say no when it asks if you want to perform a manual entry, hence recording the time as rest?

Try this: you should not use “?” to explain away the missing information.

An attestation letter, the written info on the back of a printout, or written information on an analogue chart, all three ARE manual entries, and any other symbol used on the tacho is incidental/overuled/superceded by any of those three. Think in terms of of a game of “Trumps”

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Got it, finally ha ha sorry for going round in circles.

But you still have not explained what symbol on the tachograph to use for the time between the end of the last tachograph shift and the start of the current shift.

If you start a shift after a day or two of none tachograph work and do written manual entries for those days and then need to do manual entries for the end of the last tachograph shift or the start of the current shift you will be forced to use one of the symbols for the time between shifts, the ? is the only one that’s legal to use, if you don’t do a manual entry the tachograph will automatically use the ? anyway.

Example: You do a written manual entry, eg on the back of a tacho print out, to cover your weekend rest.

Insert your card on Monday at start of shift. Ideally this should be a regular manual entry on the tacho showing Rest as the activity since last shift, but as driver in question CBA with that, and can rely on the written ME, then it is immaterial if he says “no I don’t want to use a manual entry” which as you rightly say will result in the tacho using “?” by default.

In this case we’re not explaining the gap in info with the “?”, we’re explaining it with the written version on the printout, so this particular “?” is immaterial as we’re not specifically “using it” for any purpose.

For the umpteenth time, deliberately using “?” to explain away a gap in records denotes “unknown” activity.
DVSA require “full records of all activities”
They do not want anything to be listed as “unknown”
In the example at the top of the post the presence of “?” is immaterial to the written explanation


image courtesy of

So using “?” when performing the manual entry on the tachograph is fine, as long as there is an attestation form or a written record on a tacho printout…

That’s what I was saying all along! :see_no_evil: