One company near Matlock had until recently a fleet of MAN tippers, mostly eight legger’s but also one four wheeler, and they seemed to like them. Very strong for site work etc, however I now see that they have bought a couple of Scanias so maybe MAN are not the vehicle they once were?
Pete.
here you go cpl of pics of me and my mates trucks , the one with the plane trucking tilt on had a ■■■■■■■ engine fitted
Here’s a question- why did MAN take the Saviem cab, when it was no more modern than the Bussing one? Did the Bussing takeover happen after the deal with Saviem had been struck?
Evening all, Anorak, fair few questions to answer there! The whole story of MAN is fascinating, from success, to near bancrupcy, then rescued by its national Government using its competitor as saviour, then on to unbridled success!
Lets start with Saviem. Formed 1955 by association of the lorry building companys, Renault, Latil, Somua, and the bus builder Floriat. 1961 a 25year agreement signed with German manufacturer Henschel, whereby Saviem lightweights would be sold in Germany as Henschel, and Henschel engines would appear in heavier Saviems. The first being the JL20 of 1962, 35tonnes gtw, 4x2, powered by a Henschel 520D6T of 204hp. Marketed in the new Saviem Blue paint to “hide” its Somua ancestory.
1963 Henschel was acquired by Rheinstatil, the parent of Hanomag, and the thus far unhappy association ended. Henschel again entered a short lived collaboration with Rootes Group, but by 1973 Hanomag-Henschel was absorbed by Daimler Benz, and disappeared.
1968 Saviem introduced their new tilting pressed steel cabin, which was way ahead of anything produced at that time in terms of lightness, space utilisation, and cost of production. As most will appreciate the cost of cab development is horrendous, and the new design, with potentialy a 25 year life attracted major attention, replacing as it did "coachbuilt " designs, previously the norm.
1968 a joint agreement with MAN was signed whereby the current series 2156 engines, and the V8 series engines would be used by Saviem, and MAN would market the lighter ranges in Germany. Saviem also gained the right to produce and market the bonneted range of public utility rigids, tractors and dumpers, as the TP, (Traveaux Public), range to attack Berliets GL, and GB ranges. The MAN designed 797, and turbo 798 series engines were to be produced at the former Limoge armaments works, to be installed in the still to be produced Jrange. This again to be sold in Germany as MAN.
MAN at that time derived approx 25% of its turnover from component supply, and Saviem , although an axle producer in its own right, now gained access at to heavier double drive bogie sets as part of the deal, and went after M Berliets TBO heavy haulage client base.
1968 saw MAN gain financial stake in Bussing, by 1971 it was taken over and absorbed. The “Unterflur” range was discontinued, but due to German Operator protests, was re introduced with the Saviem produced cab.
Oh by the way, that beautiful column gearchange, well that was a very old Renault design, adopted by MAN, and sold on the basis of increased “living space” in the cab. Those that have driven with it, either with Fuller, or ZF attached, know what a wonderful device it was! Lightning fast changes, and precise. When it was dropped, both by MAN and Saviem, the reason given was the, “high synchromesh loads” of synchro gearboxes…funny, in France, almost universally the column change was over a Saviem synchromesh G350 10 speed box!
MAN and Hungarian company Raba, they had collaborated as far back as the1930s. By 1970 they were building MAN product under licence. When there were difficulties in producing cabs in 84/85, and DAF stepped into the breach, they sat on MAN running gear.
Austrian builder OAF had been an associate of MAN since 1936. By the late 50s, although managed by MAN, the company followed its own policies, even fitting ■■■■■■■■ Mercedes and Leyland engines! Graf and Stift were acquired, and some of the last tractors produced by G&S, were Leyland 680 powered. From the mid 70s OAF began to concentrate their production on specialised products, 6x6,and multi axle heavy haulage machines, becoming the specialist arm of MAN. And yes our Saviem 6x6 tractors as used in the construction of the new runway at Nice Airport, were OAF designs.
1971, the collaboration with Autocamiane Brasov was signed…who could ever forget the Roman range!!! But some of them worked, amazing how far from Rumania one would see those 6x4 tractor units!
1991 MAN swallowed, (and killed), those excellent Austrians Steyr, and I have not touched upon the VW tie up in the mid 70s, when the Saviem/Berliet marriage deprived MAN of lightweight chassis. MAN were producing in Turkey, MAN-AS, and have an operation in India,Shakti-MAN. Truly an international player.
MAN was an excellent collaborator, as well as engineering company. Remember the early "maxi couple " Berliet engines had MAN M type combustion technology, as had Berliet engines for many years. Berliet merely calling it “magic” combustion.
But perhaps MANs most fortuetous collaboration was with Daimler Benz.Initially under Federal Government sponsorship to develop Tank engines, it led to the joint venture that resulted in the D25 series engines. In line 6s to MAN, Vs to Daimler Benz.
By 1981 the German domestic market was shrinking by around 12%, and chassis production was down by 8% (German Federal Registration Bureau figures). MAN were chasing export business, and succeeding. 5600 units anually into Saudi Arabia, and a staggering 11000 units into Iraq. Volume, oh yes, profit…oh no! MAN lost 500000000DM in the period 83/85 (around 128m GBP, by my calculation). MANs parent the GHH Group, (Gutehoffnunghutte) was deeply concerned! So in through the door pops Uncle Sam, in the guise of General Motors, whose world truck programme had hit hard times, and they need a foothold in Europe to carry Bedford.
Both the German Government, and MANs collaborator on system 25, Daimler Benz were concerned to say the least! If GM took MAN, overnight the combined European market share would be over11% So not only would Mercedes Benz be competing with Iveco, RVI, but a new giant GM-MAN. And in the US as well where Daimler Benz were getting to grips with Freightliner.
Mercedes were competing in the depressed German market, but they had utilised spare truck capacity to produce motor car components, saving over 3000 possible redundancies, (something RVI looked at with envy)!! And even in a market suffering gross overcapacity, Mercedes turned in a 1984 profit of £280million, so they were strong!
Gutehoffnunghutte also owned a defence contract techology company, MTU, as well as MAN. thus Mercedes Chairman, Werner Breitschwerdt made the “generous” offer to GHH Chairman Klaus Gotte, to acquire MTU for £170million. Therefore MAN would be saved, and would further collaborate with Mercedes, both in engines, axles, and sheet metal, to an anual worth of £90millin thereby assuring MANs future.
Interesting corporate history is it not, not at all like our own!! Did it meet EU rules…well, we missed our chance to ask…as ever!
But MAN lorries, well I loved them, 16.240, 16.280. 321, and F90s, 4x2s, 6x2s bloomin great lorries. Cheerio for now.
Super stuff, Monsieur Saviem. I’ve said before, but you don’t get that sort of detail in the books.
I found this on the internet, ages ago. God knows where. Is it yet another MAN-AS variant, or a Turkish home-made special?
Archie Paice:
[zb]
anorak:Archie Paice:
Hullo all,
Try again, this bloke who lives in the same town as my mother in law, travels all over South America in this VW. Argentina, Paraguay, Uraguay and Chile.
Oh! Christ, the bloody things downside up again, think I’ll give up on this iPad lark.
Cheers, Archie.It’s not your fault. Something to do with pressing the wrong shutter button, there being more than one, for some reason. This site tells you how to get round it:
pcresolver.es/The-PC-Resolve … e-Down.phpThose Brazilian vehicles are VWs. According to this, it appears that the lorry was designed by VW, but MAN bought the firm out in 2009:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen … _and_BusesHullo anorak,
Thanks for that information, I did’nt realise that. They pull a fair bit of weight though, LookBy the way there’s only one Button on the iPad for pictures. Maybe I’m pushing it wrong eh?
HURRY UP AND GET IT RIGHT ITS KILLING ME STANDING ON ME HEAD 
Had a brand new 1 on hire last year and i wasnt too keen 
The company that took us over in 1992 were running J reg.17.322’s, they were an improvement on the FL10’S we were in the process of recieving and they in turn were replaced by L and M reg 17.372’s. Other than habit of blowing fuses for the n/s lights and one accelerator pedal falling apart though not with, me I dont recall any problems, they were definitely among the best wagons we’ve ever had.We also had couple of H plate17.331’s with a wider cab appear for a short time from another depot,I thought they had a smoother running engine. We also had a batch with a newer style cab(F2000)? which had poor night heaters in the 3 years we had them but other than that again gave no grief, which considering they work 24/7 with any driver was good going.We have some spot hire 6x2 24.440’s appear now and again and though they have that junk AS tronic box, at least they are a better vehicle to use than those Spacecab 460’s with the same box which nobody likes and which we have too many of on “permanent” spot hire, having said that,in the scheme of things they are all ok nowadays but some are better than others. Apologies if I’ve got some of the MAN engine numbers wrong but whatever they were, they went well enough on our job.
I had one on Simmons International,about 1974,dont know but was told it was the first one in the country after they bought out the french firm burlia,I have probably spelt that wrong,was the best cab on the market,but inside made for a cack hander,big cab after having a f89,16 speed column change,had 44 ton of leyland engines on as working any one working for Simons would tell you that was a light load,got to Tehran and the engine was nackerd.I left it there and brought home a f89.So I dont know what happend to it.A driver at the time I met had a man bussing,he said the best lorry he ever had and after so many kilometers they gave a watch to the driver.I have reached 70 now,so have just given up my hgv,I loved being a lorry driver,but hated being a trucker,lorry drivers,roped and sheeted,changed wheels,no power steering,got his own return loads,no air con in the desert,no heater in the winter,helped others on the road,truckers book there truck off if there ipod dont work,sorry if i have upset any body.just a joke. Terry
" Six of the Best " , according to Pollock`s polished line-up !
All 6 MAN units awaiting to be sited on the Friday evening , ready at Truckfest Scotland , 2012.
Cheers, cattle wagon man.
This shot will be of interest to you CWM( well I know Shirley is!),its an MAN we ran on long term demo for 6 months.It is standing in the depot at Milnthorpe coupled to a Ross Youngs Lamberet fridge,this particular job was a double shift operation between Grimsby and Central Valley,Scotland.The two drivers were lads you will know well,Edward Airey (nights) and Ian Williams (days),we didn’t particular reckon much to the MAN,and even less of their local dealer at Penrith ! Cheers Dennis.
Bl**dy Hell, Dennis !! Its a good job my missus doesnt read much on TNUK.
If she were to find out about the Dentdale lass ,…she`d be chasing me down the A 65 with a pair of red-hot tongs. 
I can`t remember seeing that plain and unlettered white MAN on the roads. Did Edward and Ian like driving it , although I know you were unhappy with the Penrith dealership.
Cheers, cattle wagon man.
cattle wagon man:
Bl**dy Hell, Dennis !! Its a good job my missus doesnt read much on TNUK.
If she were to find out about the Dentdale lass ,…she`d be chasing me down the A 65 with a pair of red-hot tongs.I can`t remember seeing that plain and unlettered white MAN on the roads. Did Edward and Ian like driving it , although I know you were unhappy with the Penrith dealership.
Cheers, cattle wagon man.
Well you’d still be in bed when it running past J37 in a morning but the Scanias were their favourite motors Roy,although they did run an FL10 on that job for a while.I heard that Defra were doing some DNA tests on lambs from both Dentdale and The Howgills,there’s talk of traces of human DNA in some samples !!! 
Cheers Dennis.
kr79:
0
I drove one just like that doing the same kind of work, don’t remember ever getting stuck, brilliant tool. 
Here`s a MAN hiding amongst the trees , - well,… camouflaged .
Naylors Transport of Leyland used to operate many Leylands in years-gone-by.
They also ran E.R.Fs., until the marque also disappeared into the sunset. 
This MAN was on display at an Open Day at the British Commercial Vehicle Museum, Summer 2012.
Cheers, cattle wagon man.
Bit of thread as these are modern-ish motors. Some pics of MANs we use in seismic exploration in ME, not a bad truck, chassis dosnt break !!. but too technical for this market, they are all ME spec 8x8, 6x6 & 4x4s
Drove a16.232 in 1974 subbing for Essex International. Was a comfortable ride and fairly reliable but poor cab insulation in the winter.
Nearly 40 years later now in a tgx 440, Worse truck ive driven for 20 years,gearbox really slow picking up gears and leaves you stranded haltf way across roundabouts while it decides which gear its going to give you. Volvo fm 440s on fleet far better trucks.
16.232 my dad drove back in seventys
then a step up to a16.280 a good moter in the day
