Managers,ex managers ,bosses,owners

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

can you tell me what if any action would you take if this hypothetically happened.
you gave a driver a run for day
tipA

tip B
coll c
he decided to tip B first , in the process of tipping B he hit a tree with truck, tree ended up across road, blocking it, had to get wrecker to recover truck,council to cut up tree, coppers to manage traffic,sparkes to mend lampost that was knocked down by tree.you then send in another truck to retrieve trailer and load for A but as he came down road opposite way he couldnt get to trailer as tree was blocking road.
eventually he got trailer but by the time he got to A it was late,timed delivery,so rejected.
what would your thoughts be, what if any action would you take,would you take into account prev record. ta

2

is this your way of telling us you have had an accident? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

obviously, previous record would be looked at before any decision was made

i would also want to know why the deliveries were not done as per the instructions, this may have had a contributing factor to the accident with the load distribution and loss of traction.

whatever the outcome of the previous record and the answers to the questions, there would be a definate case for a disciplinary against the driver

3

shuttlespanker:
is this your way of telling us you have had an accident? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

obviously, previous record would be looked at before any decision was made

i would also want to know why the deliveries were not done as per the instructions, this may have had a contributing factor to the accident with the load distribution and loss of traction.

whatever the outcome of the previous record and the answers to the questions, there would be a definate case for a disciplinary against the driver

how far would that disciplinary go, warning,written warning,sack :question: ta

4

shuttlespanker:
is this your way of telling us you have had an accident? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

obviously, previous record would be looked at before any decision was made

i would also want to know why the deliveries were not done as per the instructions, this may have had a contributing factor to the accident with the load distribution and loss of traction.

whatever the outcome of the previous record and the answers to the questions, there would be a definate case for a disciplinary against the driver

5

as i put in my first reply, that would all depend on a) previous record, how good? and b) why did the driver do the run differently to the instructed route? and c) the drivers attitude towards other staff/management and job

if by doing the run different to what was instructed had in some way been a contributing factor to the accident, then the disciplinary would be more severe

if you look in the “Damaged Trucks” thread in the photo gallery, you will see a picture of one of my units smashed up, the driver drove into the rear of my trailer

the driver in question still works for me

6

picture in question

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=49283&start=60#p634803

7

ady1:
:?: ta

If it was you ady, who was the driver in this “hypothetical” incident , then the answer could well be ta-ta. Good Luck.

8

Buycrider:

ady1:
:?: ta

If it was you ady, who was the driver in this “hypothetical” incident , then the answer could well be ta-ta. Good Luck.

which is what im trying to get at,would you sack a driver for one incident,previos clean record .the knocking down tree episode was more the fact the driver knew he was going to be late for booking A, so in trying to get out of central london street [tried to get to factory from wrong end of street ,bollards prevented him getting through,1st time there]he panicked a bit and caught tree.
these things happen, weve all zbed up, the main problem is disobeying a order[not working to run sheet]. run sheets are ignored alot, they dont know the best way to do 10 multi drops,dinner times,busiest times, times they open,never a mention of it when you get them off and truck back in yard 4 hrs early, but different ball game when it goes wrong.
good job its all hypothetical though :wink: :laughing: :laughing:
thanks for replies lads, im off to try and get some sleep :wink:

9

We all mess up at some time in varying degrees as no-one is a perfect driver.

If the general record of the driver is a safe one then, as long as the driver has learned from this, I would say that a good rollocking is due and leave it at that.

10

Well ady1, this looks like a fine pickle, hypothetically speaking of course. :grimacing:

I see two distinctly separate issues here.

  1. Conduct
  2. Capability

Conduct.
Whether the boss like this bit or not, the status of the instructions must first be clear to the driver.

Was the driver given some kind of instructions, such as a run-sheet, and if so, what is its status?

Is the boss’ instruction to be counted as a clear instruction that the jobs are to be done in a specific order? OR…
Does the boss’ instruction simply amount to a list of tasks for that day, with the order in which they’re done being unimportant?

From the info given, it’s not necessarily clear that items “A” and “B” both had to be completed before item “C” is achievable.

If the instruction amounts to a strict instruction from boss to employee for the job to be done in a particular order, the next question is: Can the boss demonstrate that the driver was made aware of the status of the instruction?

The status of the instructions given to the driver is important in this case, because the boss can’t do anything about our hypothetical driver pleasing himself as to the order in which he’ll do the work, if all the other drivers do the same.

If the instructions for the day’s work are to be followed without exception and the other drivers also do so, and the hypothetical driver is fully aware of that, then our hypothetical driver can expect some sort of disciplinary action for misconduct. What the boss then does about this must (by law) fall into a band of reasonable responses, but there is the possibility of anything from a bollocking to instant dismissal.

I’d say that we’d need to know the status of the instructions before this part is a slam-dunk in either direction. :wink:

Capability.
Given the undisputed nature and extent of the damage and consequent cost caused to somebody, the person responsible is very probably on a sticky wicket under this heading alone. The reason for this is that it is incumbent on a driver to avoid hitting stationary objects regardless of the direction of approach. Before anybody starts hopping about, just remember that the driver had the option to stop the vehicle BEFORE any damage was caused, but decided against it. That decision by the driver can be seen as a deliberate act, which implies a lack of care and maybe a lack of capability.

It seems fair to say that the driver’s capability as a driver might need further consideration.
The outcome of this part is also at the boss’ discretion, but the band of reasonable responses rule applies here too. Anything from a bollocking, to some form of retraining or even a dismissal would seem reasonable to me. Given the nature and extent of the damage (ie it’s at the high end,) the response can reasonably also be at the high end. :open_mouth:

:open_mouth: Isn’t it a good job that this is only hypothetical, because if the boss proceeded to dismiss for misconduct and lack of capability, then one of those could probably be made to stick. :wink: :grimacing:

11

thanks dave
conduct- you get a run sheet with jobs in order,they dont have job 1, job 2 etc against them ,just times A .6.00 a.m,B 8.00 am
its more a case of knowing what needs to be done first, i.e if its a tesco 6.00 a.m booking [25 palls] it would obviously be first on list before joe bloggs 10 a.m 1 pall job,youd do tesco first, theyd expect you to do it first
but theres times when you get A 6AM,B 7 AM, C 8 AM ,1,2,3 palls per drop where knowing when they open, breaks, busy times you do b,a,c to get job tipped.
the other week i had A , B, i was loaded late so said im going to do b first as if i do a first b will be closed when i get there,worked out fine ,but as in the hypothetical one :wink: , if id of had a bang, stuck in traffic on route, got held up at B then it could of been same senario.
conduct-pefectly capable driver, i believe it was the fact he knew they bounced load at A if not there by certain time, so had to get out of street with resulting damage,i can never remember him having any kind of accident

12

ROG:
We all mess up at some time in varying degrees as no-one is a perfect driver.

If the general record of the driver is a safe one then, as long as the driver has learned from this, I would say that a good rollocking is due and leave it at that.

rog what youve said is exactly what i would have thought would happen,good ■■■ kicking, but were not bosses, managers which is why i asked the question :wink: :laughing: :laughing: ,i got the feeling after listening,seeing pics thats how s.s would deal with it.
which is why the hypothetical :wink: question was asked,to see how different bosses etc would deal with it, are all bosses the same, just sack you, is it just big multi that just sack at the first mistake,by working for the same company you get out the link,you believe its just your company thats gives out warnongs, sackings every 2 mins,or is it like it everywhere

13

thanks for the replies, then end result of my hypothetical day was 2 weeks suspension and the sack[not me ill add].
the main reason i asked was i wanted to know what its really like out there, is everywhere the same.
ive been happy enough in my job, no one bothers me,just get on with job, but whats happened could of so easily been me, ive done job my way 100,s of times and its always worked out,but by whats happened you feel you walking on thin ice, mistake,think for yourself and it goes wrong your gone.
makes you think dosnt it nice chap being sacked,really thrown me,not sure its the job for me anymore

14

ady1:
thanks for the replies, then end result of my hypothetical day was 2 weeks suspension and the sack[not me ill add].
the main reason i asked was i wanted to know what its really like out there, is everywhere the same.
ive been happy enough in my job, no one bothers me,just get on with job, but whats happened could of so easily been me, ive done job my way 100,s of times and its always worked out,but by whats happened you feel you walking on thin ice, mistake,think for yourself and it goes wrong your gone.
makes you think dosnt it nice chap being sacked,really thrown me,not sure its the job for me anymore

Hi ady1, thanks for the ultimate clarification. :smiley:

If it were the conduct issue alone, and somebody were dismissed for that reason, the status of the boss’ instructions would be absolutely key as to whether the dismissal could be regarded as fair.

I’m afraid that the capability issue pretty much decided itself, but the boss does have a whole range of responses available to him in the circumstances you described. I know of a Esso tanker driver who rolled a tanker on a clear dry day in very light traffic and lost 35,000 liters of diesel fuel. The clean-up and recovery bill was astronomical, but the guy kept his job simply because the boss decided not to dismiss.

IMHO, there’s a lot to be learned from this case for both bosses and drivers.
One obvious lesson is that employees need clear unambiguous instructions, preferably forming part of the written employment contract so that each side knows what is expected.
That tends to stop either side from moving the goalposts. :wink: :smiley:

15

dieseldave:
Hi ady1, thanks for the ultimate clarification. :smiley:

Hypothetically speaking, of course :wink: :wink:

16

Buycrider:

dieseldave:
Hi ady1, thanks for the ultimate clarification. :smiley:

Hypothetically speaking, of course :wink: :wink:

Absolutely!!

It was ady1’s hypothetical colleague we were talking about for the whole time. :grimacing:

17

i think it depends on the company… reason being everybody from the bottom up has to answer to someone and everybody is looking for somebody else to blame nowadays, stobarts, maritime, wincanton, downtons the list is endlist all look to blame the driver and as they say [zb] rolls downhill. its not always fair the said driver was just trying to use his head and work things a bit better for himself and his employer but it’s bit him on the arse.
i find nowadays just do what you are told, sometimes it’s soul destroying and heartbreaking knowing something is wrong but if you do as they say no matter what they cant blame you. my firm are terrible for trying to blame the driver for everything… perfect example crane tracks at work have yellow lines you arent meant to cross, so it snows covers the line and crane hits a lorry, drivers fault he crossed a line he couldnt see.

even if its the most stupid thing just do it as your told and cover your own arse.

18

jessicas dad:
i think it depends on the company… reason being everybody from the bottom up has to answer to someone and everybody is looking for somebody else to blame nowadays, stobarts, maritime, wincanton, downtons the list is endlist all look to blame the driver and as they say [zb] rolls downhill. its not always fair the said driver was just trying to use his head and work things a bit better for himself and his employer but it’s bit him on the arse.
i find nowadays just do what you are told, sometimes it’s soul destroying and heartbreaking knowing something is wrong but if you do as they say no matter what they cant blame you. my firm are terrible for trying to blame the driver for everything… perfect example crane tracks at work have yellow lines you arent meant to cross, so it snows covers the line and crane hits a lorry, drivers fault he crossed a line he couldnt see.

even if its the most stupid thing just do it as your told and cover your own arse.

Hi JD, that’s a rather pessimistic view, but unfortunately it’s spot-on IMHO nevertheless. :smiley:

19

jessicas dad:
i think it depends on the company… reason being everybody from the bottom up has to answer to someone and everybody is looking for somebody else to blame nowadays, stobarts, maritime, wincanton, downtons the list is endlist all look to blame the driver and as they say [zb] rolls downhill. its not always fair the said driver was just trying to use his head and work things a bit better for himself and his employer but it’s bit him on the arse.
i find nowadays just do what you are told, sometimes it’s soul destroying and heartbreaking knowing something is wrong but if you do as they say no matter what they cant blame you. my firm are terrible for trying to blame the driver for everything… perfect example crane tracks at work have yellow lines you arent meant to cross, so it snows covers the line and crane hits a lorry, drivers fault he crossed a line he couldnt see.

even if its the most stupid thing just do it as your told and cover your own arse.

yep thats what i was told ,do it the stobart way and youll have no problems, do it different and you wont be round long.
in a way i can see it,but like the other day got to batleys,huddersfield,few trucks in yard and few on road so went and did drop in huddersfield , one in elland, then went back to batleys , now ill just sit in the que like the rest.

20

i would do it the way the company wanted it done so if something did happen then at least you were doing the route the way they asked you to and not your own way but if there was a problem and though it might be better to skip 1 and go do next i would call and ask if it was ok to do it but that just me. i was told by a firm once that i was only paid from the neck down :smiley: