Wheel Nut:
I realise that Labours 2008 banking crisis has little to do with this thread, but it is more relevant to the state of our country today then to some lady who became prime minister 34 years ago.
The fact that we went from being a modern industrialised economy,based on Fordist principles,that was self sufficient in energy supplies and manufacturing,to one based on banking,service industries and moneterist principles,that became a net importer of energy and manufactured goods,with a trade deficit,currency valuation,balance of payments,economic growth and debt levels to match is more relevant to the state of the country since 1973 to date.The lady who became prime minister 34 years ago being one of the main/biggest supporters of that change.
Than the fact that a few union members got their thinking wrong as to the benefits of that capitalist Fordist economy which they were working in up to 1972 as opposed to some bs socialist utopia which never existed nor ever could have done even ‘if’ they’d have got a non existent socialist government into power.Which they never did anyway.
Bare with me a moment.
Right Fordism is a dictat where all the people have a job and build low cost goods, for this we pay them enough to buy those goods!
Problem 1 seems to stem from the fact that nobody wanted to buy these low cost goods, especially the people who built them.
Problem 2 seems to point to exactly the same methods that the Soviet Union and the glut of Lada cars that no one wanted except the Russians.
Now compare all that with the real thing capitalist Fordism.IE the type in which well paid unionised workers bought ‘Ford’ Mustangs not Ladas.Suggest you check out the relevant economic numbers such as economic growth at the time and how many of those Mustangs were sold amongst loads of other domestically manufactured products ranging from fridges to aircraft.While the relevant figures here seemed to be going in the right direction too at least up to 1972.
Not sure I understand Fordism yet. What I do understand though was that the bloke who built them were not buying Mustangs, neither were the blokes who built Allegro and Marina buying Daimler Sovereigns.
In 1969 there were only 9 motorcycle manufacturers left in Britain, all struggling to compete with the cheaper and dare I say superior Japanese stuff. I say that with a heavy heart as I am a classic bike fan. By the time of the race riots there was only one main manufacturer left. Norton Villiers Triumph in Meriden.
Wheel Nut:
Not sure I understand Fordism yet. What I do understand though was that the bloke who built them were not buying Mustangs, neither were the blokes who built Allegro and Marina buying Daimler Sovereigns.
In 1969 there were only 9 motorcycle manufacturers left in Britain, all struggling to compete with the cheaper and dare I say superior Japanese stuff. I say that with a heavy heart as I am a classic bike fan. By the time of the race riots there was only one main manufacturer left. Norton Villiers Triumph in Meriden.
Fordism is easy to understand if you keep wages down relative to prices then relatively nothing gets bought because disposable incomes are too low for people to go out and spend.However if you do get wage levels up to increase disposable incomes it’s no good if the money then gets spent on imported goods that you could/should be making in the domestic economy.Whereas the ideal is to get a circle going in which high disposable incomes get spent on domestically made goods which increases demand for employment which then increases wage rates and therefore disposable incomes even more which gets spent on yet more domestically produced goods and the best way to create that circle is by way of trade barriers against imports. Which is the total opposite of Thatcherite ideology.
I’ve never been all that bothered about bikes but there’s probably plenty of Square 4’s,Broughs,Vincents etc still in use today that will probably outlast anything that the Japs will ever produce.
As for the US economy of the 1960’s there were probably more US factory workers who could afford a new Mustang in 1966 for example ( considering that they sold more of the things in around two years during the mid 1960’s than the Cortina sold in 5 ) than there were unemployed Brits who could afford a second hand Allegro in 1980.
This article may offend the Thatcher admirers but it does paint a true picture of the person she was and the ideology she represented. She definitely wasn’t “All that” as they say. In fact she was an odious fascist worthy of Hitlers ■■■■ party, and all those other dictatorships mentioned in the article.
Solly:
This article may offend the Thatcher admirers but it does paint a true picture of the person she was and the ideology she represented. She definitely wasn’t “All that” as they say. In fact she was an odious fascist worthy of Hitlers ■■■■ party, and all those other dictatorships mentioned in the article.
If you read between the lines the article seems to confirm some very strange inconsistent alliances and involvement,going on between all the different Communist regimes and factions in South East Asia and the Thatcherite/Reaganite Pact.While Hitler and Stalin proved that there’s no real difference between Communist and Fascist ideologies.As for western involvement in the orient what was actually needed was less involvement there not more as the region has always been a part of the world that has little value on human life.Wether it be western prisoners of war or their own people.It seems obvious that the west’s interest in the region has been about taking advantage of that situation in the form of access to it’s effective forced,slave labour market overseen by Communist parasitic ‘leaders’ living on the profits.Those like Thatcher being one.
Some people will continue to agree with her time as pm and some will always disagree , You two seem to want to keep coming back to a subject that died after Mrs T’s funeral who are you trying to win an argument against?
Whirlwind:
Some people will continue to agree with her time as pm and some will always disagree , You two seem to want to keep coming back to a subject that died after Mrs T’s funeral who are you trying to win an argument against?
Funny as it may seem but the subject didn’t die with her “Funeral” as her legacy is still being discussed in the MSM, Independent and Alternative media as well as knowledgeable commentators, and politicians. So it’s still topical and worth discussing, that is unless the truth doesn’t suit the argument or official narrative. HTH.
I dont remember the modern industries pre Thatcher.I remember heavy slow unreliable motor bikes that seemed to suit the manufacturers and not a care for the customers.Lucas made most of the lighting and electrics,they were known as the Prince of darkness.The B.L. cars were just a joke compared to a Datsun.I worked with machine tools that had been built in the 1920s.I left school in 1967.something had to change as the status quo was not an option.
Agreed, the status quo had to change. She changed it for the worst, and did away with most of the industries you mention, never to return. But did she need to do it the way she did? After all anything she ever did was not for the benefit of the ordinary people, it was for the reasons mentioned by CF.
BFN.
Whirlwind:
Some people will continue to agree with her time as pm and some will always disagree , You two seem to want to keep coming back to a subject that died after Mrs T’s funeral who are you trying to win an argument against?
Funny as it may seem but the subject didn’t die with her “Funeral” as her legacy is still being discussed in the MSM, Independent and Alternative media as well as knowledgeable commentators, and politicians. So it’s still topical and worth discussing, that is unless the truth doesn’t suit the argument or official narrative. HTH.
^ This.The situation that the western economies are in today can mostly be attributed to the continuing acceptance of her ideology.
Whirlwind:
Some people will continue to agree with her time as pm and some will always disagree , You two seem to want to keep coming back to a subject that died after Mrs T’s funeral who are you trying to win an argument against?
Funny as it may seem but the subject didn’t die with her “Funeral” as her legacy is still being discussed in the MSM, Independent and Alternative media as well as knowledgeable commentators, and politicians. So it’s still topical and worth discussing, that is unless the truth doesn’t suit the argument or official narrative. HTH.
It is not TRUTH it is simply your interpretation, there are plenty of knowledgeable commentators on both sides that have stopped the subject simply because it’s like beating a dead horse
Whirlwind:
…It is not TRUTH it is simply your interpretation, there are plenty of knowledgeable commentators on both sides that have stopped the subject simply because it’s like beating a dead horse
My interpretation? Open your eyes and mind.Take a look around you in every direction, the evidence is easily recognisable apart from being very well documented. It doesn’t need much “Interpretation” by anyone.
Whirlwind:
Some people will continue to agree with her time as pm and some will always disagree , You two seem to want to keep coming back to a subject that died after Mrs T’s funeral who are you trying to win an argument against?
Funny as it may seem but the subject didn’t die with her “Funeral” as her legacy is still being discussed in the MSM, Independent and Alternative media as well as knowledgeable commentators, and politicians. So it’s still topical and worth discussing, that is unless the truth doesn’t suit the argument or official narrative. HTH.
^ This.The situation that the western economies are in today can mostly be attributed to the continuing acceptance of her ideology.
^^Yep got to agree with that. Even dodgy Dave’s favourite sound-bite at present is…“Everyone’s a Thatcherite now”. Couldn’t be any plainer.
Whirlwind:
Some people will continue to agree with her time as pm and some will always disagree , You two seem to want to keep coming back to a subject that died after Mrs T’s funeral who are you trying to win an argument against?
Funny as it may seem but the subject didn’t die with her “Funeral” as her legacy is still being discussed in the MSM, Independent and Alternative media as well as knowledgeable commentators, and politicians. So it’s still topical and worth discussing, that is unless the truth doesn’t suit the argument or official narrative. HTH.
^ This.The situation that the western economies are in today can mostly be attributed to the continuing acceptance of her ideology.
^^Yep got to agree with that. Even dodgy Dave’s favourite sound-bite at present is…“Everyone’s a Thatcherite now”. Couldn’t be any plainer.
^ This 110%.More of the results of that ideology here as militant overpaid european workers are dumped in favour of less militant more competitive Indian ones.
There you go then, CF. The benefits of the “Free market agreements, and economy”. Wonder how the “Sheeple” will feel when their jobs are outsourced and we end up like Spain, Greece etc. Yes Thatcher/Reagan neo-liberal policies are wonderful for Britain. All hail Thatcher.
solly,you mentioned the hunger strikers in the maze prison on another thread,and i quote" why she allowed the hunger strikers to die without batting an eyelid"
can you elaborate please because i cant see why it was so bad.if david cameron let the muslim fundamenalist terrorists in uk jails die in a hunger strike he would be applauded i think,so what was the problem with thatcher doing it?
Lilladan:
IRA big brave men blow up kids shopping in warrington , Maggie used the SAS to fight back , and then they want to talk , ONE GREAT WOMAN FOR SURE
pavaroti:
A great lady RIP. If only we had a pm like her now.
Maybe fella’s, but only for those who had vast wealth. She stuffed the transport industry…especially the drivers.
HTH.
What I do understand though was that the bloke who built them were not buying Mustangs, neither were the blokes who built Allegro and Marina buying Daimler Sovereigns.
Which is the total opposite of Thatcherite ideology. 
Maybe fella’s, but only for those who had vast wealth. She stuffed the transport industry…especially the drivers. 