M25 J6-8

[speedyguy]

att:
Country is [zb] big time

Spot on, i have to agree with you,

How the heck can we sort this country out though, reading this thread it seems most of the countries ‘experts’ we need are busy driving trucks what a waste of talent .

What worries me slighty reading this thread though is that some clearly cannot read or don’t have the brainpower to take information in and digest it, and they are driving trucks . I would have thought reading a delivery note or a roadsign may be too much of a struggle, (seeing how many bridge strikes, Sat-Nav stuck trucks, etc there are )

I wonder if some of the ‘experts’ on here could devise some training so when a Tyre bursts ( a regular occurance) the driver could bring the vehicle to a nice safe stop instead of generally heading through the central res, esp if it’s on offside front blowout.

I can’t wait for the experts answers

[carryfast]

.

[carryfast]

speedyguy:

att:
Country is [zb] big time

Spot on, i have to agree with you,

How the heck can we sort this country out though, reading this thread it seems most of the countries ‘experts’ we need are busy driving trucks what a waste of talent .

What worries me slighty reading this thread though is that some clearly cannot read or don’t have the brainpower to take information in and digest it, and they are driving trucks . I would have thought reading a delivery note or a roadsign may be too much of a struggle, (seeing how many bridge strikes, Sat-Nav stuck trucks, etc there are )

I wonder if some of the ‘experts’ on here could devise some training so when a Tyre bursts ( a regular occurance) the driver could bring the vehicle to a nice safe stop instead of generally heading through the central res, esp if it’s on offside front blowout.

I can’t wait for the experts answers

Some of us drove trucks before sat navs had even been invented.Maybe you could prove first that you could accelerate a loaded truck up to 85 kmh with a flat front tyre keeping it in a nice safe straight line before asking someone to do the same thing trying to decelerate it from the same speed to a standstill.

[speedyguy]

Carryfast:

speedyguy:
I wonder if some of the ‘experts’ on here could devise some training so when a Tyre bursts ( a regular occurance) the driver could bring the vehicle to a nice safe stop instead of generally heading through the central res, esp if it’s on offside front blowout.

I can’t wait for the experts answers

Some of us drove trucks before sat navs had even been invented.Maybe you could prove first that you could accelerate a loaded truck up to 85 kmh with a flat front tyre keeping it in a nice safe straight line before asking someone to do the same thing trying to decelarate it from the same speed.

I think you miss the point Carryfast , obviously you are not one of the knowall experts on here , i don’t think there’s anyway i could do it i struggled with a FOSB in an 18 tonner going pretty slowly.

But i’m not one of the Tnet experts am i . Some of them must have the answer, they do to everything else.

[carryfast]

speedyguy:

Carryfast:

speedyguy:
I wonder if some of the ‘experts’ on here could devise some training so when a Tyre bursts ( a regular occurance) the driver could bring the vehicle to a nice safe stop instead of generally heading through the central res, esp if it’s on offside front blowout.

I can’t wait for the experts answers

Some of us drove trucks before sat navs had even been invented.Maybe you could prove first that you could accelerate a loaded truck up to 85 kmh with a flat front tyre keeping it in a nice safe straight line before asking someone to do the same thing trying to decelarate it from the same speed.

I think you miss the point Carryfast , obviously you are not one of the knowall experts on here , i don’t think there’s anyway i could do it i struggled with a FOSB in an 18 tonner going pretty slowly.

But i’m not one of the Tnet experts am i . Some of them must have the answer, they do to everything else.

Sounds like a job for an expert ex police advanced car driver instructor to me.

[garybow41]

Sat 100 hundred yards from said accident,alcline truck,unlike the rest of morbid ■■■■■■■■ taking there kids down for alook,or walking there dogs down,even skateboarding down the motorway i sat for 3 hrs listening to ■■■■■■■■■ walking round moaning about the wait,and after seeing the truck and cars involved i cant believe no one died.

[buycrider]

Regarding maintaining control of a wagon which has suffered a Front Wheel Tyre Blow-out , I can but tell about the one that I had , on the M11 in August 1984,.I was driving a 112 Intercooler Scania at the time. Below the steering wheel was what we knew as a “dead-mans brake” lever, which when operated, applied the brakes on the trailer only. Even befor I had that unit, I had always known that in the event of a FrontWheel Blowout occuring, the thing not to do was to jam my foot on the brake pedal , when I heard the BIG BANG. Luckily, until that August day, I had never had a front wheel blow-out to contend with.In those days , as has been well recorded on this site, it was often the case that Tachographs and Speed limiters were immobilised with great regularity. On this occasion, my intention was, after a long day, to park up in the layby next to the Crematorium , just after joining the A14 at the end of the M11. I had made an 0200 start from base , and was hoping to get parked up at about 1800 hrs.( I know. I know. )
It was a Bank Holiday Friday, at about 5/0pm.The traffic was fast flowing, and heavy, I was loaded with roped 3 high packs of timber, from Tilbury, and after joining the M11 was getting her wound up. The speed limiter fuse was lying in the ashtray. I had reached a speed in excess of 100kpm, and was overtaking some slower movers in the left-hand lane, when there was an almighty bang which almost blew me out of my seat.I jabbed on the hazard warning lights, hung on to the steering wheel, and gently applied the deadmans handle.I made bloody certain that I did not touch the footbrake. The speed soon reduced, and I was able to knockoff the hazards, put the left hand indicator on, because everyone around me, cars, cars and caravans, and waggons, all did the right thing, I was given the gap that I needed, to steer my wagon and its load safely onto the hard shoulder. At no time was I visited by the motorway police, as they will have been busy elsewhere. So after about an hour and a half , and after Tyre Service had replced the tyre, I continued on , and found space at the crematorium layby as planned… What saved the day for me was that deadman,s brake., and the reaction of the traffic around me as I got a grip of the situation i was in. Many are not that lucky. Which is why these crossover accidents occur when a front wheel blowout occurs. I think the drivers reaction is to ram on the footbrake, after which it is bye-bye. I make no claims to being a “know-all” or an “expert”, what I can justifiably claim to have been was (a) experienced enough to handle the situation in the cab, and (b) to have been surrounded at the time of the incident by traffic which reacted in a way which saved the day, for me and for some of those around me.

[carryfast]

Buycrider:
Regarding maintaining control of a wagon which has suffered a Front Wheel Tyre Blow-out , I can but tell about the one that I had , on the M11 in August 1984,.I was driving a 112 Intercooler Scania at the time. Below the steering wheel was what we knew as a “dead-mans brake” lever, which when operated, applied the brakes on the trailer only. Even befor I had that unit, I had always known that in the event of a FrontWheel Blowout occuring, the thing not to do was to jam my foot on the brake pedal , when I heard the BIG BANG. Luckily, until that August day, I had never had a front wheel blow-out to contend with.In those days , as has been well recorded on this site, it was often the case that Tachographs and Speed limiters were immobilised with great regularity. On this occasion, my intention was, after a long day, to park up in the layby next to the Crematorium , just after joining the A14 at the end of the M11. I had made an 0200 start from base , and was hoping to get parked up at about 1800 hrs.( I know. I know. )
It was a Bank Holiday Friday, at about 5/0pm.The traffic was fast flowing, and heavy, I was loaded with roped 3 high packs of timber, from Tilbury, and after joining the M11 was getting her wound up. The speed limiter fuse was lying in the ashtray. I had reached a speed in excess of 100kpm, and was overtaking some slower movers in the left-hand lane, when there was an almighty bang which almost blew me out of my seat.I jabbed on the hazard warning lights, hung on to the steering wheel, and gently applied the deadmans handle.I made bloody certain that I did not touch the footbrake. The speed soon reduced, and I was able to knockoff the hazards, put the left hand indicator on, because everyone around me, cars, cars and caravans, and waggons, all did the right thing, I was given the gap that I needed, to steer my wagon and its load safely onto the hard shoulder. At no time was I visited by the motorway police, as they will have been busy elsewhere. So after about an hour and a half , and after Tyre Service had replced the tyre, I continued on , and found space at the crematorium layby as planned… What saved the day for me was that deadman,s brake., and the reaction of the traffic around me as I got a grip of the situation i was in. Many are not that lucky. Which is why these crossover accidents occur when a front wheel blowout occurs. I think the drivers reaction is to ram on the footbrake, after which it is bye-bye. I make no claims to being a “know-all” or an “expert”, what I can justifiably claim to have been was (a) experienced enough to handle the situation in the cab, and (b) to have been surrounded at the time of the incident by traffic which reacted in a way which saved the day, for me and for some of those around me.

But the problem when a front tyre goes flat is the inbalance in tyre drag between the inflated tyre on one side and the deflated one on the other which gets transmitted through the steering.It’s effectively like applying a sudden braking force to one side only on the steer axle.Applying the brakes at that point actually has the reverse effect in that the deflated tyre can no longer apply any type of braking force to the road because all of it’s actual roadholding properties have gone.You’re effectively running on just the wheel rim and the collapsed sidewalls of the tyre at that point which really is a no win situation and it’s all down to luck,not judgement,what happens next,although having said that the trailer brake lever on the old Scanias would have helped but no more,if not even less,than the old yank idea of having no brakes fitted on the steer axle would have done.

[jimti]

Buycrider:
Regarding maintaining control of a wagon which has suffered a Front Wheel Tyre Blow-out , I can but tell about the one that I had , on the M11 in August 1984,.I was driving a 112 Intercooler Scania at the time. Below the steering wheel was what we knew as a “dead-mans brake” lever, which when operated, applied the brakes on the trailer only. Even befor I had that unit, I had always known that in the event of a FrontWheel Blowout occuring, the thing not to do was to jam my foot on the brake pedal , when I heard the BIG BANG. Luckily, until that August day, I had never had a front wheel blow-out to contend with.In those days , as has been well recorded on this site, it was often the case that Tachographs and Speed limiters were immobilised with great regularity. On this occasion, my intention was, after a long day, to park up in the layby next to the Crematorium , just after joining the A14 at the end of the M11. I had made an 0200 start from base , and was hoping to get parked up at about 1800 hrs.( I know. I know. )
It was a Bank Holiday Friday, at about 5/0pm.The traffic was fast flowing, and heavy, I was loaded with roped 3 high packs of timber, from Tilbury, and after joining the M11 was getting her wound up. The speed limiter fuse was lying in the ashtray. I had reached a speed in excess of 100kpm, and was overtaking some slower movers in the left-hand lane, when there was an almighty bang which almost blew me out of my seat.I jabbed on the hazard warning lights, hung on to the steering wheel, and gently applied the deadmans handle.I made bloody certain that I did not touch the footbrake. The speed soon reduced, and I was able to knockoff the hazards, put the left hand indicator on, because everyone around me, cars, cars and caravans, and waggons, all did the right thing, I was given the gap that I needed, to steer my wagon and its load safely onto the hard shoulder. At no time was I visited by the motorway police, as they will have been busy elsewhere. So after about an hour and a half , and after Tyre Service had replced the tyre, I continued on , and found space at the crematorium layby as planned… What saved the day for me was that deadman,s brake., and the reaction of the traffic around me as I got a grip of the situation i was in. Many are not that lucky. Which is why these crossover accidents occur when a front wheel blowout occurs. I think the drivers reaction is to ram on the footbrake, after which it is bye-bye. I make no claims to being a “know-all” or an “expert”, what I can justifiably claim to have been was (a) experienced enough to handle the situation in the cab, and (b) to have been surrounded at the time of the incident by traffic which reacted in a way which saved the day, for me and for some of those around me.

I don’t doubt the truth of your story, but why did you have speed limiters fitted 8 years before the rest of the Haulage industry? transportsfriend.org/road/rsl.html
I have suffered a few blowouts in my time, but the worst had to be a double blow out on the drive axle of a wagon and drag, that threw me across 3 lanes (two and a hard shoulder) with no control to speak of, very scary indeed!!! I was lucky nobody was close to me when it happened because there was very little I could do to control the movement once it all went wrong.

[buycrider]

Jimti said–“I don’t doubt the truth of your story, but why did you have speed limiters fitted 8 years before the rest of the Haulage industry?”

I had got that used to over-riding the electronic impediments, to me getting the job done. that my memory let me down. It was the tachograph fuse that was resting in the ash-tray. As you so rightly said, it was the early 90,s when the speed limiter came into use. When I got my M reg Daf95xf it arrived from Eindhoven with the speed limiter already fitted.

As I said It was the reactions of those around me, and the fact that I had an independant - hand operated trailer air brake, which kept the heavily loaded trailer in a straight line, that saved the day…Just one additional small point. When the tyre service guy removed what was left of the offside tyre that had blown, he told me that my gaffer should be locked up, for having that fitted where it was… It was a Bandag re-tread. . I left that job 1 month later,having got the start tramping for Edward Stobart, where I stayed until retirement day, in 1999.

[wheel_nut]

speedyguy:

att:
Country is [zb] big time

Spot on, i have to agree with you,

How the heck can we sort this country out though, reading this thread it seems most of the countries ‘experts’ we need are busy driving trucks what a waste of talent .

What worries me slighty reading this thread though is that some clearly cannot read or don’t have the brainpower to take information in and digest it, and they are driving trucks . I would have thought reading a delivery note or a roadsign may be too much of a struggle, (seeing how many bridge strikes, Sat-Nav stuck trucks, etc there are )

I wonder if some of the ‘experts’ on here could devise some training so when a Tyre bursts ( a regular occurance) the driver could bring the vehicle to a nice safe stop instead of generally heading through the central res, esp if it’s on offside front blowout.

I can’t wait for the experts answers

Go on Speedy I will bite.

It has already been mentioned about using the deadman to apply the trailer brakes and it has been proven to work in the case of a front wheel blow out. But you will tell me that the deadman handle is no longer available and is banned or some such ■■■■■■■■.

Even on a modern lorry the braking system is still set up as it was in 1972. Footbrake applies all the brakes equally, a handbrake applies the parking brake.

The bit everyone seems to miss is the secondary braking system, the first part of the handbrake movement before it locks.

You have made yourself look a bit silly by the remark I have highlighted. How many of these (regular occurence) blowouts cause carnage, 24 hour road closures and lorries crashing through central reservations?

You also seem to be full of meaningless statistics, can you put some figures to them so a thick lorry driver can understand what you mean. Can you explain how many "bridge strikes, Sat-Nav stuck trucks, etc there are?

Better experts than anyone on here have devised a way of training, they passed on their knowledge throughout the years, mainly through the Road Transport Industry Training Board. It goes something like this;

If you experience a front wheel blowout, the vehicle will pull heavily to that side, keep calm and steer against that heavy pull. Do not touch the footbrake. If you do use the brakes use them very gently.

A laymans view, it is so simple a farmer can do it, that is how they steered their tractors!

If you experience a rear wheel blowout or two use the same methods. Do not touch the footbrake

Michelin had a go at explaining it too, maybe you should watch it.

How to Handle a Tire Blowout in Your RV

Tyres generally only blowout when they are damaged, they get damaged by running them under pressure, driving up kerbs and through deep potholes at speed.

[commonrail]

utter crap

[big_jase]

bubsy06:
The wombles are going to lose the 1% of respect they still had after this fiasco

What a stupid ■■■■■■■ statement to make, you really are the brains of the operation aren’t you. Like what the hell does it being shut have ANYTHING to do with Wombles except for the fact they were there closing the road?? FFS you really need to get a grip. A womble civil servant on £20.000 a year making a decision to shut the motor way for 26 hours■■? What a dic, you don’t think that may have been a decision made by structural engineers and road builders and maybe even the Police?? Do you know how long it takes to remove a gantry or resurface the road or white line it and recover a truck thats in pieces AND do the investigation. You “experts” dont have a clue do you, i mean really, concentrate on your own jobs before ripping into us every chance you get.

Any chance for a dig at HATO’s hey, well tell the lorry driving ■■■■ who was approaching me on the white line last week when I was stopped and went passed on the phone that he’s a ■■■■■■■ ■■■■■■■ and he deserves a good kicking. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

[bubsy06]

Big Jase:

bubsy06:
The wombles are going to lose the 1% of respect they still had after this fiasco

What a stupid [zb] statement to make, you really are the brains of the operation aren’t you. Like what the hell does it being shut have ANYTHING to do with Wombles except for the fact they were there closing the road?? FFS you really need to get a grip. A womble civil servant on £20.000 a year making a decision to shut the motor way for 26 hours■■? What a dic, you don’t think that may have been a decision made by structural engineers and road builders and maybe even the Police?? Do you know how long it takes to remove a gantry or resurface the road or white line it and recover a truck thats in pieces AND do the investigation. You “experts” dont have a clue do you, i mean really, concentrate on your own jobs before ripping into us every chance you get.

Any chance for a dig at HATO’s hey, well tell the lorry driving [zb] who was approaching me on the white line last week when I was stopped and went passed on the phone that he’s a [zb] [zb] and he deserves a good kicking. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Took yer time to reply didnt you?
Have you been busy on a 12 hour road closure because someone chucked a sandwich out of their car window and its got squashed into the tarmac

[muckaway]

bubsy06:

Big Jase:

bubsy06:
The wombles are going to lose the 1% of respect they still had after this fiasco

What a stupid [zb] statement to make, you really are the brains of the operation aren’t you. Like what the hell does it being shut have ANYTHING to do with Wombles except for the fact they were there closing the road?? FFS you really need to get a grip. A womble civil servant on £20.000 a year making a decision to shut the motor way for 26 hours■■? What a dic, you don’t think that may have been a decision made by structural engineers and road builders and maybe even the Police?? Do you know how long it takes to remove a gantry or resurface the road or white line it and recover a truck thats in pieces AND do the investigation. You “experts” dont have a clue do you, i mean really, concentrate on your own jobs before ripping into us every chance you get.

Any chance for a dig at HATO’s hey, well tell the lorry driving [zb] who was approaching me on the white line last week when I was stopped and went passed on the phone that he’s a [zb] [zb] and he deserves a good kicking. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Took yer time to reply didnt you?
Have you been busy on a 12 hour road closure because someone chucked a sandwich out of their car window and its got squashed into the tarmac

18hours actually; We all know it was ham and cheese but deciding on whether butter or margerine was used is a job for forensics…

[wheel_nut]

commonrail:
utter crap

I love a well thought out reply on a discussion forum

[speedyguy]

Wheel Nut:

commonrail:
utter crap

I love a well thought out reply on a discussion forum

I didn’t want to say it, but you can see where people are coming from sometimes

[speedyguy]

muckles:

Muckaway:
What’s the HATO excuse for such a long closure?

And why do you think it’s HATO’s fault that the roads closed, they may be manning the closure, but I doubt they authorised it.
Firstly they’ll be an investigation, a truck crossing the central reservation is serious and fortunately nobody was killed.
Then there’s the recovery of the vehicles, I heard a report that said the truck had overturned. The load might have spilled across the motorway, and it might be something that isn’t to easy to clear up it could even be hazardous.
and then there is repair to the central reservation and possibly the road surface.
All this takes time, I hope that answered you question.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-14440993

Paragraph 4 for Muckaway to read and learn .

Looks like muckles has got some idea, i blame the truckers, never get anyone to take away the planings and then deliver the tarmac on time when you need it . Especially the tipper boys, it’s not as though they need/take breaks

[limeyphil]

tyres normally go flat, when they have no air in.

[extrucker]

The Wombles standing on a closure very, very rarely make the decision to close a motorway. This is done either by Police, or a HA Operations Manager (which is equivilant to an Inspector), so don’t abuse a womble who is just doing what the control room ask of him. Nearly all motorway closures are Police led incidents until sometimes after recovery has finished.
Taken from the BBC report:
"One vehicle seems to have caused mayhem but there’s also an issue about how long it took for the Surrey Police to hand back the roads to the Highways Agency.‘’
This would say to me that this incident was Police led for the majority of the timescale, so out of the womble’s hands.