M1 lorry & minibus crash

moomooland:

commonrail:
Can anyone provide a link to any article that says a driver failed a breath test?

A 31-year-old man from Worcestershire has been arrested on suspicion of one count of causing death by dangerous driving and one count of driving a motor vehicle when alcohol level above limit. A 53-year-old from Stoke-on-Trent has also arrested on suspicion of one count of causing death by dangerous driving.

It states it here on ITV News

correct, now let’s exactly see why the 53yo has been arrested, what he did in particular. eyewitnesses should have given some info to the police for sure to have both lorry drivers arrested at the scene of the accident.

cannot imagine the feelings of the ppl involved… no words…

SHYTOT:
I thought all modern ish trucks had auto braking devices fitted, the last demo merc we had had

Only the newest ones (Euro 6) have those. A lot of FedEx tractors are Euro 5 and are a few years old and don’t have them. Even the Euro 6 tractors the steel company I sometimes work for runs (all Scanias) don’t have that; it’s an optional extra.

In my experience, those alarms are useless and annoying. The proximity alarms beep all the time when you’re moving slowly or in low gear; the lane alarms buzz for no reason, including any time you change lanes without signalling, which tutors actually teach drivers to do when pulling in after overtaking. I guess they can help when you’re driving in the early morning and in danger of drifting off, but then you shouldn’t be driving then anyway and any other times, they’re just a distraction.

Juddian:

m.a.n rules:
when I was on the petrol in the 90’s we had random checks and that was half the level to the norm. still to my knowledge 3 driver’s were over and sacked on the spot.

Presumably they had the lower levels as part of the contract when the drivers were taken on, in which case fair dos, would be an interesting case for unfair dismissal if a company suddenly decided to bring in an alcohol limit lower than the law of the land and sacked a perfectly legal to drive driver who happened to have a bottle of Bud with his dinner the night before.

No one is condoning getting ■■■■■■ as a parrot night before work, or attempting to drive over the legal limit.

yes mate it was part of the t&cs when you started and also included cannabis as you had a urine test as well. apparently it can show up 3 months after a spliff or two.

Radar19:
I stopped drinking when I got done with University. I was very much a social drinker, only when with friends did I actually drink to excess. When I passed my HGV I made the choice of stopping drinking altogether, not that it was a hard decision as I was a lightweight anyway. Any time I would meet mate’s at the pub I’d have to drive so I always had Come.

I went to my mate’s wedding last month and that was the first time I got drunk in over 3 years.

In my opinion, if you’re a truck driver and you’re found to have alcohol with you then you should be punished.

I limited myself to 2 drinks 6 years ago then I stopped altogether and haven’t touched alcohol since nor have I any desire to in the future.
I am spending at least the next 4 years at university being mostly unsociable with the odd exception

slowlane:
What a mess, especially sad for those left behind.

Impossible to sort out the cause from what we’ve got.

Coming up the A74 today, I saw a southbound Fiesta spin out and give the barrier a good shunt, for no reason I could see except maybe an overtake gone wrong. Next junction along, a minibus nearly collected me when diving for the off slip. Bank holidays seem to bring out the worst driving.

I really hope the powers that be take a pragmatic approach to the inevitable knee-jerk.

That fiesta passed me shortly before I passed it. Lane 3 coned off by the police and that was it. A very considerate driver who tucked their car in tight against the barrier (facing the wrong way) instead of spreading debris all over the road.

Mac74:
now let’s exactly see why the 53yo has been arrested, what he did in particular. eyewitnesses should have given some info to the police for sure to have both lorry drivers arrested at the scene of the accident.

It’s an SOP for lorry drivers involved in a fatal or serious - unless there are obvious signs of not responsible… e.g.: A confession of responsibility from another party.

This ensures the rights of the lorry driver/s as well as covering many other issues covered by PACE.

Whilst people’s statements are important, people often give poor accounts of what happened.

People often can’t remember as clearly as they believe they can.

Henrys cat:
Personally, I think it should be brought in to the haulage industry.

Agree.

Henrys cat:

Gembo:

Jingle Jon:
Probably we should all start to carry out random drink and drugs tests?

I’m in the rail industry and the firm I work for already does this! They are completely random and unannounced.
The limit is also lower than the current drink drive limit for joe public!
We’ve had it like this for years and I’m surprised others have not upped their game in this regard.
I daren’t even have half with my dinner the night before a shift the next day!
Any trace of drugs or drink and I’m up the road with no appeal, no questions. You also get a 5-year ban from any other job in the industry on top.

I work in the same industry, and any incident can lead to a ‘for cause’ test being required. One lad hit a bridge on the way to a job and was tested, just the same as one lad who derailed a machine. Investigations were the same in both cases even though one hadn’t even stated his work on the infrastructure. Most power stations in worked on do drug and alcohol tests on induction and at random times too

Our company do 3 names, randomly picked, every 6 months, you get 24 hrs notice and your in. Failure to comply leads to disciplinary. This is ontop of any random ones that come along. A lot of sites require this when they do the site induction too. To date this year I’ve had 4. 1 for cause when a lad ran some points when I was supervising the job, 2 induction ones and a company random. Passed them all :slight_smile:

Personally, I think it should be brought in to the haulage industry.

Jingle Jon:
Probably we should all start to carry out random drink and drugs tests?

Geopost (Parceline/Interlink/DPD), did when I was there. You’d go down to the hub and when you handed in your paperwork they’d tell you whether or not you’d been selected for a drink/drugs test.

Mac74:
correct, now let’s exactly see why the 53yo has been arrested, what he did in particular

Routine procedure when there has been an accident with a life changing injury or death in order to gather evidence. This is done even if it is as clear as the nose on your face the driver is innocent of any wrongdoing.

mrcreosote90:

Henrys cat:

Gembo:

Jingle Jon:
Probably we should all start to carry out random drink and drugs tests?

I’m in the rail industry and the firm I work for already does this! They are completely random and unannounced.
The limit is also lower than the current drink drive limit for joe public!
We’ve had it like this for years and I’m surprised others have not upped their game in this regard.
I daren’t even have half with my dinner the night before a shift the next day!
Any trace of drugs or drink and I’m up the road with no appeal, no questions. You also get a 5-year ban from any other job in the industry on top.

I work in the same industry, and any incident can lead to a ‘for cause’ test being required. One lad hit a bridge on the way to a job and was tested, just the same as one lad who derailed a machine. Investigations were the same in both cases even though one hadn’t even stated his work on the infrastructure. Most power stations in worked on do drug and alcohol tests on induction and at random times too

Our company do 3 names, randomly picked, every 6 months, you get 24 hrs notice and your in. Failure to comply leads to disciplinary. This is ontop of any random ones that come along. A lot of sites require this when they do the site induction too. To date this year I’ve had 4. 1 for cause when a lad ran some points when I was supervising the job, 2 induction ones and a company random. Passed them all :slight_smile:

Personally, I think it should be brought in to the haulage industry.

was gonna say the same as an ex signalman was subject to random drugs and alcahol testing on occasion (especialy around xmas newyear) collegue was sacked for getting knicked on way into work for dui .we did get plenty of info and education on how lo g it takes to clrar the system etc on a regular basis so no excuses

Conor:

Jingle Jon:
Probably we should all start to carry out random drink and drugs tests?

Geopost (Parceline/Interlink/DPD), did when I was there. You’d go down to the hub and when you handed in your paperwork they’d tell you whether or not you’d been selected for a drink/drugs test.

I know someone who worked at Sainsbury’s, his mirror got ripped off by the truckwash. They made him take a drug test because of it. Then because they didn’t have any breathalysers they said he had to drive to another depot 60 miles away, in his car, to take a breath test. He said “I’m not doing that, I might be drunk”. :stuck_out_tongue:

Absolute tragedy however it happened. Feel for those who have lost loved ones.

As for the drinking and driving it should be punished as premeditated murder in any vehicle regardless of how much over the limit someone is. You may as well go shooting or stabbing random people as it’s basically the same using a lethal weapon to kill random people.

I have seen lots of truck drivers who like to drink the night before or on nights out when they know they are driving the next morning and very few will have enough time to get it out if their system completely before driving.

A single unit of alcohol they say on average you need and hour for it to be out of your system. So people who drink heavily rather than the one or maybe 2 units will very rarely be sober then drive the next day.

If your job involves driving don’t drink when your at work simples.

Conor:
Geopost (Parceline/Interlink/DPD), did when I was there. You’d go down to the hub and when you handed in your paperwork they’d tell you whether or not you’d been selected for a drink/drugs test.

I’ve kind of changed my views on this recently.
I used to think that getting a breath test by anybody other than the Police was not on, as I would have took it as an insult to my professionalism and sense of responsibility, and felt pretty strongly about it.
However firm a mate of mine works for do this regularly, my mate held the same views, was never picked for it, but intended to make a stand if he ever was.
One afternoon they randomly tested an agency driver who had came in to start a shift, he was found to be well over the limit to drive.
Apparentlly the guy was a recovering alchoholic who had lapsed.
The point is his trip out involved passing a school at home time, of which my mate’s kids attended.
My mate came up with quite a number of ‘‘What ifs’’ :bulb: ,.and was very alarmed by the potential scenarios this guy could have caused.

As for ZERO tolerance to alchohol,… maybe this is the wrong thread to discuss this as emotions are running high with the mention of innocent epeople tragically killed, and a child being badly injured,
BUT… is this not just a knee jerk reaction?
As Yorkshire terrier said ‘‘Only a fool drives drunk’’
‘‘drunk’’ being the operative word.

As Juddian says nobody is condoning somebody driving as ■■■■■■ as a rat, but a guy who has a bottle of Bud with his supper the night before, is he as bad as the ■■■■■■■■■
Some will disagree, and say ‘‘Yeh he is’’ but a zero tolerance policy is a bit like chucking out the baby with the bathwater imo.

In the 80s most of us spent the night in the pub on nights out, and a lot were ■■■■■■ before going back to their cabs.
I’m not advocating for a return to those days at all, but as an example, I myself for instance parked up one night last week, had a bloody good meal, 2 pints of bitter, back in the cab for 10pm,.and had a late 8.30 start to tip next morning, so am I in some of your views wrong for that?

It’s a poor analogy but it’s a bit like having a zero tolerance to carrying knives in your cab, is the guy who is responsible who uses them to cut up his food when in cab cooking as bad as the hot tempered ■■■■■ who would use it in a road rage scenario. :bulb:

(Could certain members who wish to answer this post do so in an adult way please, due to the seriousness of the thread, and not turn it into an ‘‘insult tennis match’’ if not keep it shut…thanks.)

Yeah probably not the right thread to discuss the inside and outs of a zero alcohol ban for truck drivers I guess.

But I do know that DHL are going to be fitting breathalyser kits to the trucks in fact we have a box which may well be them in our office. The truck won’t start until you provide a suitable breath specimen although again it’s not foolproof as those that have drink problems will still find a way around it no doubt.

simcor:
Yeah probably not the right thread to discuss the inside and outs of a zero alcohol ban for truck drivers I guess.

But I do know that DHL are going to be fitting breathalyser kits to the trucks in fact we have a box which may well be them in our office. The truck won’t start until you provide a suitable breath specimen although again it’s not foolproof as those that have drink problems will still find a way around it no doubt.

That is part of my point.
As you say, ‘‘Those who know they are doing something wrong will find a way around it’’
Professionalism amongst drivers has took a nose dive lately in many ways,… why is that?
What would possess a guy knowing he is ■■■■■■■ (proven by his ‘‘way around it’’ technique whatever that may be). make him think it’ acceptable to take a truck out on the road.

robroy:
I myself for instance parked up one night last week, had a bloody good meal, 2 pints of bitter, back in the cab for 10pm,.and had a late 8.30 start to tip next morning, so am I in some of your views wrong for that?

No, because there won’t be any alcohol in your system at 0830 the following morning.

Harry Monk:

robroy:
I myself for instance parked up one night last week, had a bloody good meal, 2 pints of bitter, back in the cab for 10pm,.and had a late 8.30 start to tip next morning, so am I in some of your views wrong for that?

No, because there won’t be any alcohol in your system at 0830 the following morning.

Again Harry, part of my point.
Why should the likes of me and a few like minded on here who enjoy a pint with a meal on a night out, suffer for the d/heads who can not control their drinking in a responsible way, if a zero tolerance policy came about.

It’s the same with them stopping cheap beer offers in supermarkets because of the binge drinkers.
I like a few cans in front of the football on tv but now I have to pay more for those cretins.

ie.

Observe the big differential between a guy who simply enjoys a sociable pint and a ■■■■ head who doesn’t know when to stop.

By the same token.

Observe the responsible truck drivers in that respect, and don’t tar them with the same brush as the guy involved in today’s tragedy. :bulb:

IMO, It’s very simple - if you have not got an alcohol problem then you don’t need to drink when you know you have to drive the next day.

If you can’t have your food without washing it down with beer… you have a problem.

If you have an alcohol problem - you should not be driving lorries.

You can easily prove to yourself you do not have a drink problem by abstaining.

simcor:
As for the drinking and driving it should be punished as premeditated murder in any vehicle regardless of how much over the limit someone is.

I’m sorry but that’s a ridiculous idea. Premeditated murder means you plan and intentionally set out to kill someone. Good luck trying to get that to stick in court in a drink driving case