Gembo:
Ive said it before, ‘driving’ a train is the esay bit.
Doing it day in and day out, and not make any mistakes is not!
Most people can either delete, rewrite or cover up their mistakes, train drivers cannot!
So long as the signals are in their favour a train driver is never going to find themselves on an effective manslaughter charge for colliding with any other vehicle,cyclist,horse rider or pedestrian etc on the line.Nor can they possibly find themselves responsible for steering a vehicle into any type of a collision situation.Nor to my knowledge are they responsible for the security of their load or condition of their vehicle.
Yes they can/are, to all of the above.
So a train driver actually steers the thing not the rails and will be blamed if he hits another stopped train on the line ahead given a grren light or hits anything while manoeuvreing and shares the rails with anything from pedestrians to horses and cyclists and cars etc etc.Yeah right.
Also how long does it take to tie down a train load of freight,more like at most just checking the locks of containers,and check the condition of a half mile long train.Can’t leave much time for driving it.
There are plenty of actions a train driver can take or neglect to take, as can a wagon driver, that can end up in their prosecution. It’s not a direct comparison like for like on everything, but your assumption they can’t end up in the dock for manslaughter in the event of a death is a load of crap. A train driver minding his own business, situation normal and getting into an accident resulting in a death won’t be prosecuted, sure; but all things being equal nor will a wagon driver.
You’re opining on something you know the square root of ■■■■ all about, which appears to be par for the course.
supermatt:
Don’t post here much but I passed the scene around 10 minutes before it happened. Just want to let you guys know what i saw leading up to the accident.
Im not going to suggest blame, thats for the Police
The AIM logistics HGV was parked in lane 1 of the M1 S/B with parking brake on NO HAZARDS, NO BRAKE LIGHTS just before the bridge but after the slip road.
The first I saw of him stationary in the wrong lane was when I exited on the slip road at J14, I couldn’t believe what I saw, It defied all logic. I didn’t see him until the last moment but luckily was on the slip road.
Purely my opinion, but now with info the Police have released I can only assume he decided to take a break on the hard shoulder, but was so pis sed didn’t realise he was in lane 1.
The way he was parked in a live lane was very disorientating because of the slip road as in he looked like he was on H/S.
RIP to all on minibus and sympathy to fedex driver as what I saw it could have easily been anyone of us who hit that bus.
This was posted early on Sun morning . I know some have said they have not read through all topic , but surely what is highlighted must have played some significance in this accident .
Absolutely, but given the press reports yesterday on Mr Masierak’s court appearance the guy is either a very good actor (which I don’t subscribe to) or he has severe emotional problems at the minute (reports of marriage split up, living in a car). What an awful situation this guy is in. No one deserves that.
By the way things are emerging, he has indirectly by his actions, been one of the contributory factors to a major fatal high speed accident and the poor sod has to live with that.
Because of my own family loss many years ago I do take an interest in transport accidents and I can never quite get over the awful case of the Swiss airspace crash when two aircraft collided one carrying a party of Russian schoolchildren.
One of the fathers of a child killed was so distraught he sought out the air traffic controller and murdered him, even though the guy was so overloaded by a combination of equipment breakdowns and procedural inadequacies that he was hardly really at fault.
It is highly possible Mr Masierak has been kept in custody for his own well being and safety in case of suicidal tendencies. No one in their right right mind goes to work to kill people. I suspect he was very depressed, drank (as men and some women do) got very tired and just stopped. For all we know he could have been asleep at the time of the accident.
I hope out of all of these comes some sensible recommendations and being aware of other’s vulnerabilities would be no bad thing.
Hydro:
A train driver minding his own business, situation normal and getting into an accident resulting in a death won’t be prosecuted, sure; but all things being equal nor will a wagon driver.
You’re opining on something you know the square root of [zb] all about, which appears to be par for the course.
As I said I know enough to know that a train driver won’t be held responsible for hitting a cyclist,pedestrian,horse etc on the line or other another train assuming green light conditions.Nor is he even responsible for where the thing goes whatsoever.IE unlike the train driver’s job there is no such thing as ‘situation normal’ for a truck driver.
Carryfast:
It would be in the interests of justice and/or road safety for the prosecutors to make their case clear now as to exactly why the Fed Ex driver has been implicated in all this.
Why, the CPS will have reviewed the evidence and reached the conclusion that there is a fair chance of conviction, his defence team will also have the chance to review the evidence and formulate his defence to the charges, what benefit would releasing it now fulfil, it will all become clear at trial unless he pleads guilty.
Sand Fisher:
Absolutely, but given the press reports yesterday on Mr Masierak’s court appearance the guy is either a very good actor (which I don’t subscribe to) or he has severe emotional problems at the minute (reports of marriage split up, living in a car). What an awful situation this guy is in. No one deserves that.
By the way things are emerging, he has indirectly by his actions, been one of the contributory factors to a major fatal high speed accident and the poor sod has to live with that.
Because of my own family loss many years ago I do take an interest in transport accidents and I can never quite get over the awful case of the Swiss airspace crash when two aircraft collided one carrying a party of Russian schoolchildren.
One of the fathers of a child killed was so distraught he sought out the air traffic controller and murdered him, even though the guy was so overloaded by a combination of equipment breakdowns and procedural inadequacies that he was hardly really at fault.
It is highly possible Mr Masierak has been kept in custody for his own well being and safety in case of suicidal tendencies. No one in their right right mind goes to work to kill people. I suspect he was very depressed, drank (as men and some women do) got very tired and just stopped. For all we know he could have been asleep at the time of the accident.
I hope out of all of these comes some sensible recommendations and being aware of other’s vulnerabilities would be no bad thing.
That’s the drunk driver’s excuse out of the way.Why not a word of sympathy for the situation that the Fed Ex driver has found himself in ?.
Carryfast:
It would be in the interests of justice and/or road safety for the prosecutors to make their case clear now as to exactly why the Fed Ex driver has been implicated in all this.
Why, the CPS will have reviewed the evidence and reached the conclusion that there is a fair chance of conviction, his defence team will also have the chance to review the evidence and formulate his defence to the charges, what benefit would releasing it now fulfil, it will all become clear at trial unless he pleads guilty.
If what’s been reported ( so far ) is taken at face value.
Then it’s in everyone’s interests to know -
How colliding with a possible panic lane changer,who’s missed a vehicle that’s stopped ahead for whatever reason,and in doing so collides with an overtaking vehicle in lane 2,can end up in being the over taking driver’s fault.
Whether the CPS is making up the rules of the road as it goes along.To the point now where the lane changing vehicle driver has no responsibility to stop and effectively now has the priority to change lanes,in that situation.
Is there more to the circumstances,related to how the Fed Ex truck came to reportedly collide with the minibus and/or AIM truck,than has been reported and if so why have they not been reported and made clear.
Carryfast:
It would be in the interests of justice and/or road safety for the prosecutors to make their case clear now as to exactly why the Fed Ex driver has been implicated in all this.
Why, the CPS will have reviewed the evidence and reached the conclusion that there is a fair chance of conviction, his defence team will also have the chance to review the evidence and formulate his defence to the charges, what benefit would releasing it now fulfil, it will all become clear at trial unless he pleads guilty.
If what’s been reported ( so far ) is taken at face value.
Then it’s in everyone’s interests to know -
How colliding with a possible panic lane changer,who’s missed a vehicle that’s stopped ahead for whatever reason,and in doing so collides with an overtaking vehicle in lane 2,can end up in being the over taking driver’s fault.
Whether the CPS is making up the rules of the road as it goes along.To the point now where the lane changing vehicle driver has no responsibility to stop and effectively now has the priority to change lanes,in that situation.
Is there more to the circumstances,related to how the Fed Ex truck came to reportedly collide with the minibus and/or AIM truck,than has been reported and if so why have they not been reported and made clear.
Pure speculation, show me where that has been reported as fact.
Nobody is making up the rules as they go along, as previously stated all the facts relating to what occurred will have been reviewed by the CPS and they feel there is a case to answer.
Will all become clear at the trial, quite normal to release only certain details prior to a trial.
I realise it doesn’t fit your agenda for the Fed-Ex driver to be charged, but if he has done nothing wrong and is indeed a victim in this he will be found not guilty when the evidence is made clear in court.
Carryfast:
It would be in the interests of justice and/or road safety for the prosecutors to make their case clear now as to exactly why the Fed Ex driver has been implicated in all this.
Why, the CPS will have reviewed the evidence and reached the conclusion that there is a fair chance of conviction, his defence team will also have the chance to review the evidence and formulate his defence to the charges, what benefit would releasing it now fulfil, it will all become clear at trial unless he pleads guilty.
If what’s been reported ( so far ) is taken at face value.
Then it’s in everyone’s interests to know -
How colliding with a possible panic lane changer,who’s missed a vehicle that’s stopped ahead for whatever reason,and in doing so collides with an overtaking vehicle in lane 2,can end up in being the over taking driver’s fault.
Whether the CPS is making up the rules of the road as it goes along.To the point now where the lane changing vehicle driver has no responsibility to stop and effectively now has the priority to change lanes,in that situation.
Is there more to the circumstances,related to how the Fed Ex truck came to reportedly collide with the minibus and/or AIM truck,than has been reported and if so why have they not been reported and made clear.
None of which explains why the reasons for their decision need to be made clear now. To do so would simply muddy the waters and prevent all drivers involved (well, those who are still alive, at any rate) from receiving a fair trial. There will come a time and place for such revelations (and/or challenges to the process) but it’s not now.
Carryfast:
It would be in the interests of justice and/or road safety for the prosecutors to make their case clear now as to exactly why the Fed Ex driver has been implicated in all this.
Why, the CPS will have reviewed the evidence and reached the conclusion that there is a fair chance of conviction, his defence team will also have the chance to review the evidence and formulate his defence to the charges, what benefit would releasing it now fulfil, it will all become clear at trial unless he pleads guilty.
If what’s been reported ( so far ) is taken at face value.
Then it’s in everyone’s interests to know -
How colliding with a possible panic lane changer,who’s missed a vehicle that’s stopped ahead for whatever reason,and in doing so collides with an overtaking vehicle in lane 2,can end up in being the over taking driver’s fault.
Whether the CPS is making up the rules of the road as it goes along.To the point now where the lane changing vehicle driver has no responsibility to stop and effectively now has the priority to change lanes,in that situation.
Is there more to the circumstances,related to how the Fed Ex truck came to reportedly collide with the minibus and/or AIM truck,than has been reported and if so why have they not been reported and made clear.
None of which explains why the reasons for their decision need to be made clear now. To do so would simply muddy the waters and prevent all drivers involved (well, those who are still alive, at any rate) from receiving a fair trial. There will come a time and place for such revelations (and/or challenges to the process) but it’s not now.
Plus 1 Roymondo. I’m trying to remember other high profile accidents, a34 crash, tipper lorry crash, etc. and I’m pretty sure that only basic details were released prior to the case. Nothing that can influence a jury should be released prior to the court case.
I note that there has been no mention whatsoever of any driver using a phone at the time. Surely that will be a focus point of any investigation, but until confirmed it can’t be released. One possible reason for charging the Fed Ex driver.
I find that in the dark with just the rear lights of vehicles to use as a reference point it is sometimes more difficult to orientate the position of stationary vehicles ahead especially when the road is not straight and unlit.
A stationary vehicle in the live lane of a quiet motorway which has a hard shoulder available would be a totally unexpected event and under the circumstances I could easily see how the brain would be slow (or fail completely) to compute what the eyes were seeing.
Sadly it would appear that both the mini bus driver and the FedEx driver failed to react quickly enough.
Sand Fisher:
Absolutely, but given the press reports yesterday on Mr Masierak’s court appearance the guy is either a very good actor (which I don’t subscribe to) or he has severe emotional problems at the minute (reports of marriage split up, living in a car). What an awful situation this guy is in. No one deserves that.
By the way things are emerging, he has indirectly by his actions, been one of the contributory factors to a major fatal high speed accident and the poor sod has to live with that.
Because of my own family loss many years ago I do take an interest in transport accidents and I can never quite get over the awful case of the Swiss airspace crash when two aircraft collided one carrying a party of Russian schoolchildren.
One of the fathers of a child killed was so distraught he sought out the air traffic controller and murdered him, even though the guy was so overloaded by a combination of equipment breakdowns and procedural inadequacies that he was hardly really at fault.
It is highly possible Mr Masierak has been kept in custody for his own well being and safety in case of suicidal tendencies. No one in their right right mind goes to work to kill people. I suspect he was very depressed, drank (as men and some women do) got very tired and just stopped. For all we know he could have been asleep at the time of the accident.
I hope out of all of these comes some sensible recommendations and being aware of other’s vulnerabilities would be no bad thing.
That’s the drunk driver’s excuse out of the way.Why not a word of sympathy for the situation that the Fed Ex driver has found himself in ?.
Sympathy for what?
Either driving too close to the minibus in lane 1 or driving along in lane 2 and not seeing that the minibus is in trouble way before it was to close?
This is what I don’t get with sum drivers…We are suppose to be professional but when every we go threw roadworks or come across a slower moving car in lane 1 some get angry with it!!
Hydro:
A train driver minding his own business, situation normal and getting into an accident resulting in a death won’t be prosecuted, sure; but all things being equal nor will a wagon driver.
You’re opining on something you know the square root of [zb] all about, which appears to be par for the course.
As I said I know enough to know that a train driver won’t be held responsible for hitting a cyclist,pedestrian,horse etc on the line or other another train assuming green light conditions.Nor is he even responsible for where the thing goes whatsoever.IE unlike the train driver’s job there is no such thing as ‘situation normal’ for a truck driver.
A short while ago there was a derailment at a London Terminus when a train entered an engineering possession.
I am informed by a signalman that although this was not principally the fault of the train’s driver, according to the rule book a driver is required to observe that points are set for his correct road.
Either driving too close to the minibus in lane 1 or driving along in lane 2 and not seeing that the minibus is in trouble way before it was to close?
This is what I don’t get with sum drivers…We are suppose to be professional but when every we go threw roadworks or come across a slower moving car in lane 1 some get angry with it!!
Mr Masierak was stopped. It was the Fed Ex truck that was moving.
Though just a view, a think the minibus may have been driving quite slowly. It could account for the severity of the crash because the speed differential would then have been quite high.
What does surprise me is why the Fed ex driver didn’t go into lane 3, unless his way was baulked by traffic. If it was interesting no one has come forward to say they witnessed it.
Carryfast:
If what’s been reported ( so far ) is taken at face value.
Then it’s in everyone’s interests to know -
How colliding with a possible panic lane changer,who’s missed a vehicle that’s stopped ahead for whatever reason,and in doing so collides with an overtaking vehicle in lane 2,can end up in being the over taking driver’s fault.
Whether the CPS is making up the rules of the road as it goes along.To the point now where the lane changing vehicle driver has no responsibility to stop and effectively now has the priority to change lanes,in that situation.
Is there more to the circumstances,related to how the Fed Ex truck came to reportedly collide with the minibus and/or AIM truck,than has been reported and if so why have they not been reported and made clear.
Pure speculation, show me where that has been reported as fact.
Nobody is making up the rules as they go along, as previously stated all the facts relating to what occurred will have been reviewed by the CPS and they feel there is a case to answer.
Will all become clear at the trial, quite normal to release only certain details prior to a trial.
I realise it doesn’t fit your agenda for the Fed-Ex driver to be charged, but if he has done nothing wrong and is indeed a victim in this he will be found not guilty when the evidence is made clear in court.
‘The Prosecutor said’.That the AIM vehicle was stationary in lane 1.The minibus was in the same lane and attempted to to get into the other lane to drive around the stopped AIM vehicle.
In which case 3) obviously applies regarding the overtaking vehicle.IE not asking for actual specific details.Just a statement that aggravating factors regarding the overtaking vehicle have made it necessary to also charge the Fed Ex driver in addition to the AIM driver.
IE I haven’t got any agenda.‘If’ that is the Fed Ex driver has been charged because of allegedly anything more aggravating,than just happened to be in lane 2,overtaking a stopped truck in lane 1 and unfortunately collected a mini bus behind the truck in lane 1,that made an unsafe lane change from lane 1 to lane 2,against the nearside of the Fed Ex truck already in lane 2.
Either driving too close to the minibus in lane 1 or driving along in lane 2 and not seeing that the minibus is in trouble way before it was to close?
This is what I don’t get with sum drivers…We are suppose to be professional but when every we go threw roadworks or come across a slower moving car in lane 1 some get angry with it!!
Mr Masierak was stopped. It was the Fed Ex truck that was moving.
Though just a view, a think the minibus may have been driving quite slowly. It could account for the severity of the crash because the speed differential would then have been quite high.
What does surprise me is why the Fed ex driver didn’t go into lane 3, unless his way was baulked by traffic. If it was interesting no one has come forward to say they witnessed it.
I very much doubt fed ex would of been doing anything less than 56 they only no the limiter speed so makes me wonder if he did flash the minibus in to allow both to past safely would he of stopped to see if the aim driver was ok?check he hadn’t had a heart attack?I bet the answer is No because of the same reason he didn’t help minibus move over if in lane 2 or up it’s arse in lane 1…RUSH RUSH RUSH
Has anyone seen a pic of the rear of the AIM logistics trailer?
I’m wondering if its fairly new trailer and the old style Long Vehicle reflective plates were not fitted and instead had that silly little red (pointless) reflective strip round the back doors.
mabey the flipflops red line came off and that co dont allow drivers to be anything other than be steering wheel kebab meat,phone in,sit and do nothing, health and saftety pish,dont wander about in a live lane.the hato ( or whateve this weeks ame is) will be alerted and magically solve the problem and keep you safe like they always do.
mabey he just had enough and decided to do a michael douglas in the film falling down.should be interesting enough reading once it comes out though.
lane 3.not for use by trucks,with the amount of road dashcam commanders then you might not want to use it even to avoid someone trying to pull out.
lane 2 ,clear so crack on
lane 1 obstruction,whoever is driving in lane 1 has a problem,and obligation to extract themselfs from it without endangering anyone else or having them have to take evasive action…
possibly i see a possible conflict of interests in who to blame in the prosecutors name being Zainab Mohamed and the dead minibus drivers name being cyriac joseph merely from their origins or faiths,but thats just my own opinion and no doubt wrong.all his mob wont take too kindly if the bus driver is found to be at fault,which will mean the blame heading for the other 2 drivers.the fact 1 of them was a bit over the limit,then he looks like the sacrificial lamb anyway the fact he is now detained and looks to have had his life in tatters prior to this,and nobody would want to be in his shoes.the media will decide on who to pick as the poor puppy and who to crucify and the lemmings will follow suit hence someone will get crucified and hung out to dry.id have thought a dashcam warrior would have surfaced and bunged it up before now even though it would get pulled after a while.
