Lost tacho chart

Mike-C:

orys:

Mike-C:

Yeah, but then it’s boss’s trouble. How can they prove that it was me driving this van that day if they have no tacho or other documents?

A daily run sheet should sort that out.

Isn’t the daily run sheet an “other document”?

See my post above - i didn’t trying to tell that it’s OK but it’s seems to be common practice…

It was this bit that was misleading

orys wrote:
here you can always tell them “O, I wasn’t driving that day”.

Along with this

orys wrote:

It should not be a problem, as in this country they don’t expect you to have a chart for every day worked…

Also it won’t be bosses trouble if they contact the boss.

Yeah, but again: here you don’t have to write a chart stating that you was on holidays, for example, as that can be (in theory) checked with your employer.

But in other countries you have to carry all relevant documentation with you…

it’s just like that you don’t have to carry a car documents with you (maybe you should, but many people don’t).

That is opening a lot of opportunities to cheat. For example my scottish friends are driving cars belongs to each other. I asked them about insurance and I was told "Who cares, if I will be stopped by Police, I will tell them that I am him, they won’t check that, so they will ask me to bring documents to police station… He will go - who will remember my face?

orys:

Mike-C:

Yeah, but then it’s boss’s trouble. How can they prove that it was me driving this van that day if they have no tacho or other documents?

A daily run sheet should sort that out.

Isn’t the daily run sheet an “other document”?

See my post above - i didn’t trying to tell that it’s OK but it’s seems to be common practice…

if i was you i would keep a record of what you drove for you self as to back you up if you got a ticket for speeding or parking

A mate did a lot of agency work and one day drove a van for the firm and 2 weeks later got a ticket of speeding

the company contact the agency and the said that he was driving the vehicle
he checked his notes and saw that he was not driving said van at said time and told the agency that it was not him he show the notes and there sent it back.

always keep a record of what and when driving just for your protection

orys:

Mike-C:

orys:

Mike-C:

Yeah, but then it’s boss’s trouble. How can they prove that it was me driving this van that day if they have no tacho or other documents?

A daily run sheet should sort that out.

Isn’t the daily run sheet an “other document”?

See my post above - i didn’t trying to tell that it’s OK but it’s seems to be common practice…

It was this bit that was misleading

orys wrote:
here you can always tell them “O, I wasn’t driving that day”.

Along with this

orys wrote:

It should not be a problem, as in this country they don’t expect you to have a chart for every day worked…

Also it won’t be bosses trouble if they contact the boss.

Yeah, but again: here you don’t have to write a chart stating that you was on holidays, for example, as that can be (in theory) checked with your employer.

But in other countries you have to carry all relevant documentation with you…

Its true we do not need to carry a record to say we are/were off work, but this guys question is in relation to him losing a card for a working day.

it’s just like that you don’t have to carry a car documents with you (maybe you should, but many people don’t).

Correct, we do not need to carry them.

That is opening a lot of opportunities to cheat. For example my scottish friends are driving cars belongs to each other. I asked them about insurance and I was told "Who cares, if I will be stopped by Police, I will tell them that I am him, they won’t check that, so they will ask me to bring documents to police station… He will go - who will remember my face?

To be stopped by the Poice here you would usually have to have done something wrong. ANPR usually tells them a vehicles insurance and MOT status and registration. I’m certain they have other ways of assuring themselves of a drivers identity if they need to, whilst its not impossible by any means i would describe it as lots of opportunities to cheat.

Mike-C:
Its true we do not need to carry a record to say we are/were off work, but this guys question is in relation to him losing a card for a working day.

But if he’ll be stopped, they will not be able to tell it on the spot if he was working that day or not. He can tell them “I was seeing my doctor this day”.

As for cheating - I would not push this further, as I am not interesting in such kind of behavior. I just cited my friends. They already had such situation and it was working. I am sure that if Police will need to find who was driving, they will, but do they really need it? And you don’t have to do nothing to be stopped - i was once stopped only for random check.

orys:

Mike-C:
Its true we do not need to carry a record to say we are/were off work, but this guys question is in relation to him losing a card for a working day.

But if he’ll be stopped, they will not be able to tell it on the spot if he was working that day or not. He can tell them “I was seeing my doctor this day”.

No they won’t be able to tell on the spot. But thats not his question. He wants to know what to do. The easy thing is to fill out a tacho manually. He may need this for his boss never mind VOSA. Saying ‘i wasn’t working’ is about the dumbest thing he could do. If he was found out he would be done for fraud, if he produces a manual record he will be fine, its an easy choice.

As for cheating - I would not push this further, as I am not interesting in such kind of behavior. I just cited my friends. They already had such situation and it was working. I am sure that if Police will need to find who was driving, they will, but do they really need it? And you don’t have to do nothing to be stopped - i was once stopped only for random check.

I too have had a ‘random check’, but in all reality the random check was to smell my breath for alchohol as the officer pointed out to me. I knew the name my vehicle was registered and insured in (mine funnily enough!) and was on my way.

Mike-C:
No they won’t be able to tell on the spot. But thats not his question. He wants to know what to do. The easy thing is to fill out a tacho manually. He may need this for his boss never mind VOSA. Saying ‘i wasn’t working’ is about the dumbest thing he could do. If he was found out he would be done for fraud, if he produces a manual record he will be fine, its an easy choice.

Off course, I am NOT advising him to do that. I also think it’s stupid. It’s a bit off topic what we two are discussing here. I would create a hand record as well in his place.

Hi
orys

Yeah, but again: here you don’t have to write a chart stating that you was on holidays, for example, as that can be (in theory) checked with your employer

.

my boss wanted to fill in tacho if on hols so i filled 7 chart for that week all say holiday

in the Regs you are suppose to carry the last 28 days plus the currant day

and if you were on hols you would in fact have less charts

i question him and he told me that

a month later we had are tacho come back from analyzing and in my notes it said OK for hols

i was told when i first drove with tacho that you mush be able to show what you have done unless you have not driven for some time and then you build up your charts

orys:

Mike-C:
No they won’t be able to tell on the spot. But thats not his question. He wants to know what to do. The easy thing is to fill out a tacho manually. He may need this for his boss never mind VOSA. Saying ‘i wasn’t working’ is about the dumbest thing he could do. If he was found out he would be done for fraud, if he produces a manual record he will be fine, its an easy choice.

Off course, I am NOT advising him to do that. I also think it’s stupid. It’s a bit off topic what we two are discussing here. I would create a hand record as well in his place.

Good idea. I’d of said the same as you if i’d of said this earlier in this thread

It should not be a problem, as in this country they don’t expect you to have a chart for every day worked… In Poland they operating system of “yellow charts” where your employer states if you were off or if you was driving a small van for example… They had to put stamp on it etc…

here you can always tell them “O, I wasn’t driving that day”.

I seen a guy once (guess it was owner driver) who just throw his chart away through the window…


:wink:

MikeC: yeah, my fault. But I wrote this as an observation, I did not mentioned it as an advice. :blush:

delboytwo:
Hi
orys

Yeah, but again: here you don’t have to write a chart stating that you was on holidays, for example, as that can be (in theory) checked with your employer

.

my boss wanted to fill in tacho if on hols so i filled 7 chart for that week all say holiday

No legal requirement to do so, it may just have been an in house thing.

Coffeeholic:

delboytwo:
Hi
orys

Yeah, but again: here you don’t have to write a chart stating that you was on holidays, for example, as that can be (in theory) checked with your employer

.

my boss wanted to fill in tacho if on hols so i filled 7 chart for that week all say holiday

No legal requirement to do so, it may just have been an in house thing.

I understand that,

but in the company i worked for we were issued with are tachos week by week and when we got the week we had to hand in a set and sign for them in a tacho log book (can not think of name of it)

and if you did not wright out your holiday tachos in theory you would not have 28 day with you

read this in regs

Rest and other days off
The period of time unaccounted for between successive charts produced by a driver should normally
be regarded as (unless there is evidence to the contrary) a rest period when drivers are able to dispose freely of their time. In the UK, drivers are not expected to account for this period, unless enforcement
authorities have reason to believe that they were working. Nevertheless, on international journeys it is
recommended that letters of attestation from the employer are provided for drivers travelling through
other countries to cover any sick leave, annual leave and time spent driving a vehicle which is out of
scope of EU/AETR rules during the preceding 28 days. An EU approved attestation form can be

and the bit in red would it be excepted by vosa if you did what I said (fill in the days as hols and keep them as a week)

delboytwo:
and if you did not wright out your holiday tachos in theory you would not have 28 day with you

Yes you would. You are not required to fill out records for non working days so as long as you have a record with you for each day you worked in the 29 day period then you have satisfied the requirements of the regulations. You don’t fill charts in for rest days, or at least you don’t need to, and holidays are no different.

Take a part time or semi retired driver who only does the odd day here and there, maybe just one day a week. They could be stopped and only have 4 or 5 records to produce covering the 29 day period. He doesn’t fill in charts for non working days saying ‘not working’.

delboytwo:
read this in regs

Rest and other days off
The period of time unaccounted for between successive charts produced by a driver should normally
be regarded as (unless there is evidence to the contrary) a rest period when drivers are able to dispose freely of their time. In the UK, drivers are not expected to account for this period, unless enforcement
authorities have reason to believe that they were working. Nevertheless, on international journeys it is
recommended that letters of attestation from the employer are provided for drivers travelling through
other countries to cover any sick leave, annual leave and time spent driving a vehicle which is out of
scope of EU/AETR rules during the preceding 28 days. An EU approved attestation form can be

and the bit in red would it be excepted by vosa if you did what I said (fill in the days as hols and keep them as a week)

No it would not be expected. If you are stopped all you need to produce are records for the days you are required to make them for, i.e. days you drove under EU rules or days you worked but did not drive in a week when you drove under EU rules. If VOSA suspect you have driven more than the records you produce it is up to them to prove you did, not for you to prove you didn’t. If you don’t produce records for a week and you tell them you were on holiday but they suspect otherwise they will have to check other documentation such as time sheets, wages records etc.

On International journeys where it isn’t easy or possible for foreign enforcement authorities to check things such as time sheets you still don’t need records for holidays, instead it is normal to carry something like this.

Activity Confirmation
Attestation d’Activité / Bescheinigung
Confirmación de Actividades
**Conferma di Attività **

To whom it may concern
Contrôle sur route/ Strassenkontrolle
A quien pueda interesar/ A chi di spettanza

EU Regulation No. 3821.85 - 20.12.85 - Article 15.7
Règlement (CEE) No. 3821/85 - 20.12.85 - Article 15.7
EWEG Vorschrift Nr. 3821/85 - 20.12.85 - Artikel 15.7
Reglamento UE Nº 3821/85 - 20.12.85 - Articulo 15.7
Norma UE No. 3821/85 - 20.12.85 - Articolo 15.7

During the period from ……………………………………….until………………………………
Au cours de la période du / au
Im Zeitraum vom / bis
Durante el periodo iniciado el / y terminado el
Durante il periodo compreso tra il / e il

Driver (Name - Christian Name) …………………………………………………………………
Conducteur (Nom - Prénom)/ Fahrer (Name - Vornahme)
El conductor (appellidos y nombre)/ Il conducente (Cognome - Nome)

Was /était /war/estuvo/è stato
(Delete if inapplicable/Rayer la mention inutile ou préciser/Nichtzutreffendes streichen oder genauer
bestimmen/Tachar lo innecesario/Cancellare qualora inapplicabile)

- occupied with tasks additional to driving ( ) the vehicle
occupé à des travaux annexes à la conduite d’un véhicule
wie folgt beschäftigt mit KFZ-Nebentätigkeiten
ocupado con tareas adicionales a la conducción del vehiculo
occupato con mansioni addizionali a quella di guida del veicolo

- at rest ( )
au repos / Rehetag / Descansando / A riposo

- has stopped working because ………………………………………………………………………………………………
…………………………………………………………………………………………………
en arrêt de travail pour cause de / aus folgenden Gründen nicht beschäftigt
ha dejado de trabajar porque / ha smesso di lavorare perché

Company Stamp

Dated…………………………………
Cachet d’entreprise/Gesellschaftsstempel Datée du / Datum
Sello de la empresa/Timbro della società Fecha/ In data

Signature……………………………
Unterschrift
Firma

Of course they are open to abuse and it isn’t unknown for drivers to carry pre stamped blanks and fill them in as required. :wink:

For holiday I just put the date and HOLIDAY on the space on the front of the tacho pack same as I do for rest days. No work, No tacho.

just do a manual taco
i have heard it said you that you cant beat a ■■■■■■■■ :laughing:

Calor gas insist on tachos for non worked days

Hi coffeeholic

Thanks for that it just makes it more clearer

Of course they are open to abuse and it isn’t unknown for drivers to carry pre stamped blanks and fill them in as required

there don’t do that do there :wink: