David Miller:
Never had a V8 Fiat either Robert but no doubt you are right about the different engines.
However I think that there is very much more ‘theorising’ about the use of constant mesh boxes than experience like we had actually punching one up and down the road week in week out.
Personally I have some really wonderful theory’s about, for example, driving multi fuel gas turbine engines but none of them have even an ounce of actual experience.
But like it or not the truth is that when Mr Scania or Mr Volvo gave us good syncro boxes life became a lot easier.
David
Firstly I wouldn’t say that what I and nmm said is theory or not based on first hand experience ( Detroit/Fuller/Spicer and Rolls/Foden/Fuller boxes at least in my case and as I said instinctively a few others too including my car ) .
As for synchro boxes if easier means slower and shoulder and wrist ache fighting against a pointless bag of bolts which,assuming best practice by a driver who takes pride in the job,still needs rev matching of shifts just the same anyway.The difference is it also covers up the mistakes of the type of driver who I posted driving the 8v71/Fuller conventional example.Let alone the type who has to stop and start again because they couldn’t get a gear during an upshift let alone a down shift.
On that note it’s surprising just how much a proper rev matched double de clutched shift will also clean and speed up the shift quality of the average synchro box whether car or truck.Sometimes including upshifts. 
Some more Fiat V8/Fuller videos:
This bloke wins the prize:
[zb]
anorak:
Some more Fiat V8/Fuller videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN71Gk1BKGk
This bloke wins the prize:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKm7yLKqtIk
80’s trucks about as good as it got.I never drove a Fiat but that driving position and steering looks perfect to me a bit like the Foden S83.
As opposed to ‘nasty crash boxes’ and ‘no power steering’.Sort of reverse rose tinted specs.
^^^I totally agree with you there, CF 
.
However, regarding the driving style – and this is a subjective and personal view – I still maintain that if your week is spent traversing the Alps with a Fuller ‘box, that frenetic, manic, boy-racer approach will knacker you out much sooner than the kind of well-planned, measured method of gear-changing we were taught forty years ago. I’ve tried it both ways – Alps, Pyrenees, Toros, High Atlas, Carpathians, Sierra Navada, Massif Centrale – and I know which approach I’ll stick to! Robert 
Carryfast:
[zb]
anorak:
Some more Fiat V8/Fuller videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN71Gk1BKGk
This bloke wins the prize:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKm7yLKqtIk
80’s trucks about as good as it got.I never drove a Fiat but that driving position and steering looks perfect to me a bit like the Foden S83.
As opposed to ‘nasty crash boxes’ and ‘no power steering’.Sort of reverse rose tinted specs.
i had a fiat 170f26 with that same gearbox and it was a pleasant motor to drive. had its niggles , if you cocked up the - push gearstick forward , turn the hydraulic lock procedure the wrong way round after tilting the cab , you ended up with a floppy gearstick and only the splitter working , but it only did that after several miles . you could sum it up , good engine, great gearbox, bomb proof back axle , shame everything else on it fell apart after about 12 months or so .
ERF-NGC-European:
^^^I totally agree with you there, CF .
However, regarding the driving style – and this is a subjective and personal view – I still maintain that if your week is spent traversing the Alps with a Fuller ‘box, that frenetic, manic, boy-racer approach will knacker you out much sooner than the kind of well-planned, measured method of gear-changing we were taught forty years ago. I’ve tried it both ways – Alps, Pyrenees, Toros, High Atlas, Carpathians, Sierra Navada, Massif Centrale – and I know which approach I’ll stick to! Robert
As myself and nmm were alluding to I’d guess that engine characteristics play a large part in forcing whatever driving style by default.As for negotiating awkward mountain roads it generally doesn’t get much more demanding than Italy ( or Sardinia ).On that note I’d also guess that instinctively grabbing gears up or down anywhere at any time from nothing is an asset not a liability and again probably something they do by necessity not just for fun.
While I’m not sure how you’d view this style ?.But it’s more or less how I ‘usually’ drove the old Clydesdale,loaded to within an inch of its life with a Drott or Muir Hill or bulk refuse,everywhere from the Surrey Hills to Reigate or Epsom town centre.The key point then being that in neither case was it a Fiat or Detroit motor bolted on the front of the Fuller or Turner box. 
youtube.com/watch?v=8hKKzOHRTPY
Horses for courses, I’ve got two Peterbilts with an 18spd Fuller, one with a CAT and the other the Paccar (Daf) engine, the CAT, which I drive is a big lazy engine, lots of time to change and it’s hard to make a balls up of it. The Paccar on the other hand is more frantic and requires either a very fast shift, or to be fed in on a rising throttle, the latter being the easier of the two to avoid playing tunes, but the former gives a cleaner shift, as long as you are quick enough.
I’ve driven quite a few lorries with Fuller boxes, Berliet, Daf, ERF, Freightliner, Ford, Hino, IVECO, Kenworth, Leyland, MAN, ,Peterbilt, Seddon Atkinson, 9spds, 13spds, 18spds and twin splitters, no two were alike, some were good installations, some were awful, some suited the engine, others did not. The best of the bunch by far is the CAT/18spd combo, the worst was the Hino/twin splitter which had a linkage made from what felt like elastic bands.
newmercman:
The Paccar on the other hand is more frantic and requires either a very fast shift, or to be fed in on a rising throttle, the latter being the easier of the two to avoid playing tunes, but the former gives a cleaner shift, as long as you are quick enough.
The Rolls/Fuller or Foden combination in the S83 was similar and like the Detroit suits my preference.Although the Rolls seemed to me to provide just the right balance between not too frantic but not too slow.Good Sisu examples here.
youtube.com/watch?v=OAzeq4wEbX4
youtube.com/watch?v=aM6_H7YaJSY
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
As myself and nmm were alluding to I’d guess that engine characteristics play a large part in forcing whatever driving style by default.As for negotiating awkward mountain roads it generally doesn’t get much more demanding than Italy ( or Sardinia ).On that note I’d also guess that instinctively grabbing gears up or down anywhere at any time from nothing is an asset not a liability and again probably something they do by necessity not just for fun.
While I’m not sure how you’d view this style ?.But it’s more or less how I ‘usually’ drove the old Clydesdale,loaded to within an inch of its life with a Drott or Muir Hill or bulk refuse,everywhere from the Surrey Hills to Reigate or Epsom town centre.The key point then being that in neither case was it a Fiat or Detroit motor bolted on the front of the Fuller or Turner box.
youtube.com/watch?v=8hKKzOHRTPY
Well, I’ve driven in both Sardinia and Corsica, CF, and I agree that they are demanding. Probably like you, I drove modern hire cars in those islands, but I still used exactly the same technique I described earlier for getting my passengers safely and comfortably to their destinations.
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
As myself and nmm were alluding to I’d guess that engine characteristics play a large part in forcing whatever driving style by default.As for negotiating awkward mountain roads it generally doesn’t get much more demanding than Italy ( or Sardinia ).On that note I’d also guess that instinctively grabbing gears up or down anywhere at any time from nothing is an asset not a liability and again probably something they do by necessity not just for fun.
While I’m not sure how you’d view this style ?.But it’s more or less how I ‘usually’ drove the old Clydesdale,loaded to within an inch of its life with a Drott or Muir Hill or bulk refuse,everywhere from the Surrey Hills to Reigate or Epsom town centre.The key point then being that in neither case was it a Fiat or Detroit motor bolted on the front of the Fuller or Turner box.
youtube.com/watch?v=8hKKzOHRTPY
Well, I’ve driven in both Sardinia and Corsica, CF, and I agree that they are demanding. Probably like you, I drove modern hire cars in those islands, but I still used exactly the same technique I described earlier for getting my passengers safely and comfortably to their destinations.
In my case I’ve always driven my Jag in Sardinia and Sicily not a hire car. Although from what I’ve heard the even more wicked roads in Corsica would probably kill even its AP racing brakes.
As I said I deliberately fitted it with the lightest aluminium race spec flywheel I could get so relatively quick shifts go with the territory although the Getrag isn’t quite as fast as the flywheel 
.The combination is similar to the perfect balance,between quick to shift up or down,but not too quick,provided by the Rolls and Fuller/Foden box combination as shown in the vids which was more or less my favourite one.Along the exact lines of this to drive.Needless to say the Italians are often suitably impressed.
youtube.com/watch?v=CFVOXsVN97Y
We had 360’s and one 480 Turbostars in the late 80’s mainly with 13 speed Fullers and i agree with NMM they were all different installation wise compared to the Tec cabbed versions to drive but they went very well.I found the cabs far too cramped though with the side windows too low. If they could have sorted the build quality out they would have been onto a winner imho
Nearly all the Fiat V8 drivers give it a blip (or two, or three ) to synchronise a change up. There are lots of Fiat V8 videos out there, which is nice- it’s not all Scanias.
To ease/speed-up the gearchange I would fit a two-stage return spring, with the detent set at just enough pedal to give, say, 1300rpm. It would then be a simple case of cutting the fuel, to get the revs dropping fast, then rest one’s boot on the “step” between the springs then, as soon as the stick went into mesh, bury the pedal.
[zb]
anorak:
PMSL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mer1c2pYd8
No bonus points because he didn’t actually fall out of the open door making it the world’s oldest autonomous vehicle.While it just proves that Grappa is bleedin strong stuff and he probably won’t remember anything about it and will get a shock when he sees the vid and he’s sober. 
More Fiat V8/Fuller fun:
youtube.com/watch?v=iAeD51gspa8
This chap makes clean changes, but misses one, and ends up blipping the pedal. like the others.
Question- his split changes are faster- is the splitter synchronised, or have I just blasphemed?
That goes back to what I said earlier about needing to do a really fast one motion shift or a slower two movement with a blip of te throttle to feed it in. I owned my 48, guess which method I used…
Next video up after that was of a 190-48 racing a 530 Scania, the TurboStar ■■■■■■ all over the Scania. Having had both, I knew it would. I still say that my old 520 EuroStar is the best pulling lorry I’ve ever driven, I would put it against the 550 CAT I’ve got now with no fear.
My good pal and ex boss fitted a 13 speed Fuller in his first truck when he set up as OD
Mike Ponsonby:
My good pal and ex boss fitted a 13 speed Fuller in his first truck when he set up as OD
That’s interesting! I know of very view Fuller installations in Scanias. I’d have loved to have got behind the wheel of your mate’s 141. !!
Here are the few Scanias with Eaton/Fuller 'boxes fitted that I know of:
The Punchard machine, RHD 142 with 9-speed Fuller
John Allen’s LHD 142 high roofed unit with 13-speed Fuller
Two of Nick Bull’s 142s with Fuller 13-speed boxes [see this pic and the pic at the bottom!]
A 110 with a Rolls 280 and a 9-speed box
Various South African 142s with 9-speed 'boxes fitted
PLUS:
A 142 with a Twin-splitter in it
And an Oz 142 with an 18-sp Fuller in
Not forgetting Nick Bull’s old 143 with a retro-fitted 13-sp box, discussed earlier on this thread
Robert
