Those pictures leave nothing to the imagination. RIP driver and passenger, condolences to those caught up in this.
el_presidente:
Those pictures leave nothing to the imagination. RIP driver and passenger, condolences to those caught up in this.
Last time I tried to turn right accross the A47 in my car ( ( from the Parson Drove Road beside Bretts ) I decided that I would not go that route again as it was too dangerous cutting across the traffic . This was at night after 7 pm at night and I had a long wait to make a safe crossing. On another occasion I had to abort crossing thd A47 near Wisbech and turn left instead.
Again beside Bretts another car driver showed me his fist because he had to slow down marginally. He was a long way away when I pulled out but had no intention of adjusting his speed .
I usually try and let vehicles out on the A47 as I know how difficult it is too cross. Even that can be dangerous as sometimes drivers behind may use it as an opportunity to overtake if there is no on coming traffic.
ajt:
Carryfast:
There needs to be a review of the whole question of the impact resistance of rear engined,low cab and set back front axle,designs especially bearing in mind the height mismatch involved in that v a truck’s load deck height.Difficult to make crumple zones in a bus when it’s all about volume to maximize passenger numbers. Add in vehicle weight and it’s pretty unrealistic to have something in place to protect a driver with this kind of impact especially when a accident on this scale is rare anyway.
I don’t think it’s an issue of providing a crumple zone.It’s more about providing a cab floor height that matches as closely as possible the load deck height of a truck and putting the engine in the front to at least give the driver a chance.Along the lines of the older bus designs up to the Routemaster.Which is clearly still an available choice of chassis.
youtube.com/watch?v=VOk7_PfshQw
mantruckandbus.com/man/media … is_cla.pdf
Scroll down to front engine high floor chassis.
As opposed to. 
youtube.com/watch?v=VXPLX9t-ur8
As for ‘rare’ how rare does a bus v truck crash have to get.Bearing in mind that such tombstone thinking is now being applied to truck cabs too.
ajt:
Carryfast:
cav551:
I don’t know how bus body manufacturers get away with it, there are impact resistance regulations for lorry cabs, but bus bodies are as flimsy as tissue paper, the only thing of any strength between the driver and the front is the steering column, much like the old Fibreglass lorry cabs of yore. About thirty years ago there was a serious head on collision between a single decker and a double decker close to where I live. The single decker was literally inside the the DD. The DD driver died a few weeks later from his injuries.There needs to be a review of the whole question of the impact resistance of rear engined,low cab and set back front axle,designs especially bearing in mind the height mismatch involved in that v a truck’s load deck height.
Difficult to make crumple zones in a bus when it’s all about volume to maximize passenger numbers. Add in vehicle weight and it’s pretty unrealistic to have something in place to protect a driver with this kind of impact especially when a accident on this scale is rare anyway.
This poor bugger could have been in a tank, and with that sort of impact he still would have died. None of us know what caused this, but it really is a definite, no one could have survived that, no matter how well the bus was built.
peterm:
ajt:
Carryfast:
cav551:
I don’t know how bus body manufacturers get away with it, there are impact resistance regulations for lorry cabs, but bus bodies are as flimsy as tissue paper, the only thing of any strength between the driver and the front is the steering column, much like the old Fibreglass lorry cabs of yore. About thirty years ago there was a serious head on collision between a single decker and a double decker close to where I live. The single decker was literally inside the the DD. The DD driver died a few weeks later from his injuries.There needs to be a review of the whole question of the impact resistance of rear engined,low cab and set back front axle,designs especially bearing in mind the height mismatch involved in that v a truck’s load deck height.
Difficult to make crumple zones in a bus when it’s all about volume to maximize passenger numbers. Add in vehicle weight and it’s pretty unrealistic to have something in place to protect a driver with this kind of impact especially when a accident on this scale is rare anyway.
This poor bugger could have been in a tank, and with that sort of impact he still would have died. None of us know what caused this, but it really is a definite, no one could have survived that, no matter how well the bus was built.
But if it had one of those impact prevention things on the front (like the cone monkeys have on the rear of their ‘lorries’) he would’ve walked away with probably just shock and whiplash.
N.I Express:
Last time I tried to turn right accross the A47 in my car ( ( from the Parson Drove Road beside Bretts ) I decided that I would not go that route again as it was too dangerous cutting across the traffic . This was at night after 7 pm at night and I had a long wait to make a safe crossing. On another occasion I had to abort crossing thd A47 near Wisbech and turn left instead.Again beside Bretts another car driver showed me his fist because he had to slow down marginally. He was a long way away when I pulled out but had no intention of adjusting his speed .
I usually try and let vehicles out on the A47 as I know how difficult it is too cross. Even that can be dangerous as sometimes drivers behind may use it as an opportunity to overtake if there is no on coming traffic.
The council here has applied 40 and even 30 mph limits enforced by mobile cameras to less hazardous roads than that.No wonder when there’s such muppetry going on combined with drivers who’d rather make a dangerous right turn than go two miles down the road to turn around at a roundabout.
ajt:
Can’t believe the sun would be so bad he didn’t see a truck in the middle of the road a few hundred yards ahead. How did everyone else manage this week, the last few months, the last number of years at this spot?There could be a million and one reasons:
Truck never looked properly.
Truck pulled out but had to stop due to a unseen vehicle to the left.
Truck flashed out by a vehicle in front of bus turning into the yard and bus never slowed.
Truck thought the bus driver flashed.
Trucks foot hit the throttle rather than the brake.
Fog.
Illness.
Vehicle faults.Etc etc
The aerial shot shows two things. The impact wasn’t very fast as the trailer hasn’t moved that much, but of course it could have been heavily laden. More the giveaway is the truck’s position. He’s only just got the cab round. Surely if he’d blocked half the road a right hand check would have revealed the bus, but of course the truck driver couldn’t have done anything about that - other than slam it into reverse, in which case his cab would probably have been hit.
So why didn’t the bus driver see it? There was nothing in front of the bus driver, so either truck driver has been totally stupid (in pulling out in the first place), the bus driver likewise for not seeing it or the latter fell ill. Either way if there is a roundabout a tad further on the haulier should put up a notice to that effect and maybe the TC is partly liable too for suitability of operating centre, though I don’t know if their considerations include highway suitability.
All terribly sad. What is important is that we as drivers can ultimately find out what happened so we can learn and not suffer the same fate. Unfortunately as most of us are not local we’ll probably never know.
I hope the bus driver wasn’t using his phone.
ezydriver:
peterm:
This poor bugger could have been in a tank, and with that sort of impact he still would have died. None of us know what caused this, but it really is a definite, no one could have survived that, no matter how well the bus was built.But if it had one of those impact prevention things on the front (like the cone monkeys have on the rear of their ‘lorries’) he would’ve walked away with probably just shock and whiplash.
The comparison is probably more like at least having a chance of losing everything below the knees instead of above the waist. 
The A47 is like all but two of the ten main A roads that enter Norfolk from Cambridgeshire, Suffolk and Lincolnshire, it is single carriageway.
It was only four years ago that the A11 was dualled, prior to that the A12 at Corton was the only stretch.
It is not surprising that much of the industry has left that part of the world. When I was driving artics a few years ago it was 43 miles from our yard to a dual carriageway when travelling south and 80+ when travelling north.
Blimey, those pictures are pretty shocking. There’s a landing leg on what’s left of the dashboard. RIP those that didn’t make it.
It looks to me as though the lorry made it quite a way out into the road before impact, which would suggest he may not have pulled out ‘dangerously close’ to the oncoming bus. Also, the bus doesn’t seem to have deviated from the lane at all, and judging by the damage done and injuries, doesn’t seem to have slowed a great deal either, if at all. My first thought was fog or low rising sun hampering the bus drivers’ view (RIP), but as someone said above weather wasn’t a factor (does that include sun glare?).
To me it just seems more than ‘lorry pulls out in front of bus, bus has no time to react’, which is the conclusion a few people that I’ve spoken to have come up with. Also interesting that the Brett’s driver wasn’t arrested. Time will tell, very sad indeed.
Very sad. Quite a few have mentioned about the possibility of the lorry driver having only pulled out across one lane to wait for the far lane to become clear. In which case the trailer would still be in the yard entrance and the impact would have been with the cab.
Let’s say it took only 5 seconds for the lorry to get from a standing start to the position of impact. (I think it would be more - maybe someone can time it - where there is less traffic about!).
If the bus was doing 50mph … and that’s fast for a decker, at the time the lorry started to move the bus would have been 366.65 feet away. As you all know from the Highway Code the stopping distance from 50mph for a car is 175ft (53mts for some of you). Is it a lot more for a bus? Yes you have extra weight… which gives more grip, but also much larger and more powerful brakes.
If it took 8 seconds for the lorry to get to the point of impact, the bus would have been 586ft away when the lorry started to move.
Must have been horrible for the lorry driver watching the bus coming straight at him and be unable to do anything about it.
Driveroneuk:
Very sad. Quite a few have mentioned about the possibility of the lorry driver having only pulled out across one lane to wait for the far lane to become clear. In which case the trailer would still be in the yard entrance and the impact would have been with the cab.Let’s say it took only 5 seconds for the lorry to get from a standing start to the position of impact. (I think it would be more - maybe someone can time it - where there is less traffic about!).
If the bus was doing 50mph … and that’s fast for a decker, at the time the lorry started to move the bus would have been 366.65 feet away. As you all know from the Highway Code the stopping distance from 50mph for a car is 175ft (53mts for some of you). Is it a lot more for a bus? Yes you have extra weight… which gives more grip, but also much larger and more powerful brakes.If it took 8 seconds for the lorry to get to the point of impact, the bus would have been 586ft away when the lorry started to move.
Must have been horrible for the lorry driver watching the bus coming straight at him and be unable to do anything about it.
Firstly I’d guess that it wouldn’t take 5 seconds to cover that distance across the road from a standing start.As for the bus braking time let’s say it’s around at least 6 times heavier than the average car and doubtful that it has 6 times as much braking capacity especially in the case of a two axle design as opposed to 3.It’s then just a case of the bus driver’s reaction time.Especially as I’m guessing the resulting damage has more to do with the bus design than its speed and was possibly running slower than you’d think in that regard with the truck also possibly pulling out with the bus closer than you’d think. Foreign driver mistakenly thinking that he had a clear road having mixed up his observation directions seems as good a possible explanation as any so far.With just the driver’s name to either add some weight to the theory or bust it.Also can’t believe that any driver would pull out to turn right there with an artic with traffic approaching even at 500 ft let alone 366 ft.I’d want a clear road within visible range there in both directions to even think about going for it.
As service buses don’t have passenger seat belts, I seem to remember reading somewhere that bus brakes are intentionally limited in stopping power?
If the sun was facing the bus and it went over an uneven part of the road COULD the sun reflected off the bus headlights looking like a ‘flash out’ to the lorry driver 
Buckstones:
As service buses don’t have passenger seat belts, I seem to remember reading somewhere that bus brakes are intentionally limited in stopping power?
I’d be very surprised if that was true.
nomiS36:
Buckstones:
As service buses don’t have passenger seat belts, I seem to remember reading somewhere that bus brakes are intentionally limited in stopping power?I’d be very surprised if that was true.
I meant that they were limited compared to car stopping efficiency, so the stopping distance will be longer than that for a car even at the full designed efficiency.
Service buses aren’t usually run at more than 50 mph, coaches now do have seat belts and run faster so could have better brakes (and often have retarders).
Darkside:
Foreign truck turning right and not payed as much attention to the traffic from the right because he forgot which side of the road he should be turning onto?
What do you mean by he forgot which side of the road he should be turning onto?
If that was the case wouldn’t it have been a head on crash?
The police rarely use the word accident as a descriptor but they did in this case!
The lorry driver not being arrested speaks volumes here.
The police obviously have some very concrete evidence that whatever happened wasn’t the fault of the driver.
The bus will have had all round cctv, probably including the driver, and the truck likely had a forward facing cam at the least.
Whatever happened the police believe was unavoidable, or believe it was the fault of the sadly deceased bus driver. It’s is a very rare situation in this day and age that someone involved in such a big event is deemed completely innocent without a huge investigation.
years back i recall a case where on a gloomy morning [near ipswich ] a truck pulled out without stopping as was his habit from of a small side road crossing directly over the A12 and an elderly couple driving on holiday ran straight into the side of it .Seem to remember his side marker lamps were said to be dirty but the truck driver was never charged with causing their deaths . soon after though the crossing was closed . however this case now being discussed is in daylight cant see how the truck driver can dodge being charged… but seems he has