London Borough Traffic Scheme

[winseer]

Am I to understand that even trunk roads like the A1, A2, A3, A4, and A5 are not considered sacrosanct when it comes to artic right of passage?

No wonder you can do some kinda study on this subject as a DCPC module…
I’m buggered if I know why I can’t go Shooters hill Road, New Cross, Old Kent Road, Southwark
instead of the so-called “proper” route of M25,M23, A23, Clapham/Wandsworth one way system, nine elms, lambeth, elephant & castle, Southwark.
It’s over an hour longer, and more than double the distance. So much for leth greenhouth gathes.

It wouldn’t be so bad if I were not coming from Dartford to start with FFS!

My questions are:

Why are not all roads posted with dynamic restriction signs like on tunnel approaches?
What happens if you get busted for being on the wrong route for the time of day you happen to find yourself in?
Are the bus lane cameras used for enforcement evidence?
Is London turning into “Europe at the weekends”?

[muckaway]

You can with a permit. We use the route you said quite a lot. The annoying thing is getting from Old Kent Road to Rhodes Bakery in Greenwich. What’s the reason behind the short 7.5t restriction near the old naval college? Can add nearly an hour to a journey.

[splitshift]

Check out londoncouncils.gov.uk,even if your vehicle has “exemption permision” you can’t go where you like during restricted hours I always try to submit a route for approval beforehand(e-mail) but in a business where customer requirements change like the weather its not always possible.As far as I know they only have a handfull of “enforcement officers” to cover the whole London Councils area

[yorkysays]

splitshift:
Check out londoncouncils.gov.uk,even if your vehicle has “exemption permision” you can’t go where you like during restricted hours I always try to submit a route for approval beforehand(e-mail) but in a business where customer requirements change like the weather its not always possible.As far as I know they only have a handfull of “enforcement officers” to cover the whole London Councils area

Yes but how many bloody Cameras?
I had a collection in Barking, didn’t think twice about going, been to that ■■■■ hole many times as an Agency driver. Anyways, it was an old truck and not LEZ compliant, week later the Company received a £500 fine. I was subbing for another Company and the TP ‘forgot’ the truck wasn’t LEZ compliant… Ooooops.

[splitshift]

Muckaway:
You can with a permit. We use the route you said quite a lot. The annoying thing is getting from Old Kent Road to Rhodes Bakery in Greenwich. What’s the reason behind the short 7.5t restriction near the old naval college? Can add nearly an hour to a journey.

When the Greenwich restriction was first introduced(20 years ago?) we were told it was to reduce congestion/pollution around the museums & “Cutty Sark” etc every so often they have purge and issue FPNs as a lot of people take a chance or follow the sat-nav from the Blackwall tunnel to Deptford/Rotherhithe etc,have you had the pleasure of a Blackwall tunnel closure yet?O/K Road to G’wich has taken me 4 hours in the past btw tunnel closure=gentleman from a far off land breaksdown/runs out of fuel in his elderly Rover/Honda/Nissan!

[splitshift]

LEZ is admistered by TFL or Transport for London they have cameras everywhere bus lanes etc!they are a different entity to the London Councils scheme in fact they had a lovers tiff over the Olympics last year TFL wanted more leeway for out of hours deliveries London Councils refused any concessions

[winseer]

I am really struggling with how it can be right or wrong at different times despite there being no strategic signs to warn you of entering a restricted area.
The South circular seems OK, 'cos you’ve got this blue and white 16.5t sign indicating the “ok” route (eg around clampham common) and warnings that you can’t go there, 'cos it’s 7.5t, or you can’t go here 'cos there’s a 12’6" bridge just down the road etc etc.

Now, add north london (south of the north circular) to the mix, and you’ve got all these one way systems that cannot be reverse-traversed to “go back the way you came”. You take the next main turning going in what would be the right general direction, no signs saying you can’t, and BANG - You’re in the street with no exits that suddenly decides it’s restricted in one way or another, AFTER you’ve already committed.

Then you’ve got these signs that seem to indicate the road ahead is restricted, but it’s actually the side street it refers to. More confusion.
Then there’s “middle of the road” signs like this one that leave you wondering if it’s OK to go either way?

So here I’d be taking the right just like 5330018 in the pic, with a 16.5t sign up. It’s sunday evening about 8-9pm.
I’m taking the view that "I’m not going to be pestered for being on the A1 trunk road surely? but then the signs pour some doubt over both if the A1 is straight on or right under the archway, or indeed if the 16.5t refers to the right hand turn, or the straight ahead bit?

I really hate ambiguous roadsigns!

I dunno if I’ve done something wrong here, perhaps guilty of not having a crystal ball, because of where I’ve just come from, eg. Pentonville, via Holloway Road) or am I going to commit one futher up the road here?

where I want North CIrcular east, so pop up the A1000, nothing loath, No signs saying I can’t go that way…

Carry on another mile fine…
Encouragement from seeing that little “end of lorry restrictions” sign there… (‘Wot restriction has just ended?’ niggles though. )

Then another mile up the road, and I run into this ■■■■■■■■…

I tell myself some kid has turned the sign around, and it’s for a side road… But faith is low by this point, it’s past 9pm now, and getting dark. I’m only a mile from the junction with the North Circular. An end to my suffering surely?

So I’m in the right lane, signed right in white paint, no filter on the traffic lights though.
So whaddya do to turn right here? Ease forward so oncoming cars turning their right can go across the front of you… Fine. You’re getting honked from behind for some unknown reason… Can’t turn, cos oncoming traffic prevents it (green coming the other way as your light is green) Then the lights go red (for you as well!) and you make the turn… Crossroad traffic is hooting you now, because you’re still half across the road with a slugautomatic straight out of wacky races…

ARRRGHHHH!

[splitshift]

Funny you mention “Norf Lonnon” geeze the only place where my appeals against FPN’s have been rejected “The Peoples Democratic Republic of Hackney North”

[hkloss1]

is there any map of Greater London you can buy that would be showing all roads with lorry driving restrictions?
I used to have a Snooper S2500 but on my first day of doing multidrops around London it put me twice against narrow roads, those with barriers on both sides despite me entering the vehicles width of 2.5 m.
Luckily after contacting the seller and explainig that it was not what I was hoping for when buying a trucker sat nav, and after some arguing, they agreed to send me a full refund.

[tennantjon]

I know how you feel. I was on my way to a regular customer of mine in Wandsworth in the early hours of the morning, carrying chemicals too, and cos im based in northfleet i went up the A2, coming off at the sun in sands. Turned left at the top then across blackheath towards new x. Gone this route more times than i can remember so was shocked when the boss got a fine through the door saying I’ve driven a prohibited vehicle across blackheath common. I told the boss to fight it, gave him a written reason why, stating that its the diversion route for over hight and hazardous vehicles, sent it back to the council that issued it and waited. A little while later we got a letter say the fine had been dropped. Clearly someone on their side hadn’t read the signs properly.

[winseer]

Ahh yes. Blackheath common. Routes into places like Battersea, Nine Elms, and even Southwark seem to involve me going M25/M23/A23 Clapham common route now. I just get on with it, 'cos I’m paid by the hour on agency, but who wants all that crap when you’re on job and knock?

It’s 1hr10min via Blackheath common but 1hr55min the quickest I can get to say, Nine elms starting out at Aylesford/Medway.
SO almost double the fuel expended, more CO2 emissions, even if the rate is lower, and all that wasted time and traffic clog-up to boot.
Then you see other firms vehicles going that way regardless when you’re on Blackheath common in your car, and you wonder what it’s all about?

I just don’t understand how this damned system works - A 24/7 lorry ban I can understand. No signs at all, and expected to be a ban I don’t understand.
Part time bans with ambiguous signs makes me want to apply for that shelf-stacker’s job.

I suppose I could take a cavalier attitude, and “not be bothered if there’s no possible endorsements involved”, but not knowing the full extent of powers here, I don’t know what I should expect.

[winseer]

hkloss1:
is there any map of Greater London you can buy that would be showing all roads with lorry driving restrictions?
I used to have a Snooper S2500 but on my first day of doing multidrops around London it put me twice against narrow roads, those with barriers on both sides despite me entering the vehicles width of 2.5 m.
Luckily after contacting the seller and explainig that it was not what I was hoping for when buying a trucker sat nav, and after some arguing, they agreed to send me a full refund.

I have a London map that’s dated 2010. I tried using it to cross London recently for a run starting out in Southwark. No warning of restricted routes until I had committed to them, even though I was trying to play it safe by sticking to the trunk roads.

I’m of the opinion that any A road with a single digit should NOT have ANY restrictions ANYWHERE along it’s entire route except low bridges, and that’s only tolerated because the damned things were built over 100 years ago…
What say you guys?
Fight for the right I say!

Also, is it my imagination that more and more London streets seem to have no signs naming the street until after you’ve turned into it?
I will resist using a damned satnav to the bitter end…

[yorkysays]

Winseer:
I will resist using a damned satnav to the bitter end…

Resistance is futile…lol

[euro]

londoncouncils.gov.uk/servic … efault.htm
click at bottom for map

[tortoise]

Having just looked at the map it looks like 98% of the roads have some restriction

[splitshift]

Check out this site thepieguide.com/shop map books sat-navs all specific to the London lorry control scheme,the controls have been running since 1985/6 so those of us who work in London have learned to live with it(job in city yesterday)

[hkloss1]

Euro:
London Lorry Control | London Councils
click at bottom for map

it looks like the kind of map I’m looking for.
Pitty it has not been updated since 2010.
Do you think there have been many changes on London roads since then?

Thanks

[winseer]

I’ve got the 2010 map. It’s no good. Official. Why doya think I don’t have a clue right now?

I need a map to include especially those roads that are
(a) not signposted as “restricted” in any way (no weight limits, no low bridges, but main road with nothing apparent amiss?)
and
(b) those roads that used to be “good” in 2010, but now are not.
I’m fed up with being invited to spend some money on the website as well. FFS. Is this LBTS all about plundering our meagre pay packets even more?

Am I correct in understanding that a PCN is a fine matter not an endorsement matter?

The website even gives SE7 as one of it’s examples… “Drivers often go wrong here” Yeh. No ■■■■ Sherlock! The roads around there have changed A LOT since 2010 for starters!

I won’t be buying any satnavs from THESE people either.

[hkloss1]

I fully agree with you Winseer

but there is simply no alternative, the map is probably the best thing we can buy these days.
I’m sure there have been many adjustments, many new roads made no go for lorries, but what choice do we have?
They use lorry driver like an ATM and keep moving goal posts everyday to make sure we don’t become too comfortable with this already ■■■■■■ up city.
No wonder every lorry driver I talk to, hates driving into London, and all consider it as the worst route any driver in other parts of the country can be sent to do.

[fingermissing]

I work nights where is my protection from these nasty noisy horrible lorry .My sleep is important to me.At the end of the day london is supposed to be a 24 hour city and the pratt Borris Johnson wants more lorrys on the road at night .
The London lorry control should have been scraped when the M25 was finished now its just for revenue nothing else.

londonlorrycontrol.com/llcs/breaches

The bit about nasty noisy horrible lorry was a joke