Ader1:
However, I’m often put under pressure by the TM to take breaks during this time.
Be sure to ask for this in writing next time his tune will soon change. If tipping on break is what you have to do to make it back on a 15hr spread i’d start looking elsewhere for a job anyway that’s not the life you want to be leading
SaintAndy:
Ader1:
However, I’m often put under pressure by the TM to take breaks during this time.Be sure to ask for this in writing next time his tune will soon change. If tipping on break is what you have to do to make it back on a 15hr spread i’d start looking elsewhere for a job anyway that’s not the life you want to be leading
Before handing out advice like that, it would helpful if the OP could actually flesh out his story, because we still don’t know if he/she was actually loading and unloading the lorry, or I it was being loaded and unloaded by someone else. It might have been wholly appropriate for the TM to ask that it should be put on break…
Sure SaintAndy I agree with you if he is being asked to record a break while actually working, that is wrong. But if they are complaining about being asked to record a break while pulling their end off in a waiting room or kicking back in the cab then I’m afraid its our OP who is being daft.
True F-reds and point taken. It’s difficult to say based on one side of the story but he did also state “I am still working obviously” which I take to mean he’s responsible for the loading/unloading process or has to be present when it happens neither of which you can define as break so he shouldn’t be recording it as such no matter what downward pressure is on him.
Point I make is if any TM asks you to do anything underhand like that it’s not the sort of company i’d envisage having a happy long term future at.
ajt:
You shouldn’t do it but everyone does!
If youre being forced to do it then big no no.
I wouldn’t agree that everyone does it.
I agree Andy, just the way he says “obviously”, because its not obvious at all. But I think you and I are on the same page!
But it seems we wont know as the OP hast been back yet. Perhaps he’s still working 
So many ways to look at this and no simple answers.
Much depends how you’re paid, is it in your interests to get through more work and can you legally take a proper break during tipping, if so then sensibly taking breaks whilst you’re already doing nothing other than waiting for (un)loading makes sense.
If you’re hourly paid or salaried then you’ll have to work out whats best for you, its sometimes hard to strike the right balance between doing too much for someone who doesn’t deserve it and taking the ■■■■ by not doing enough…you’re between a rock and a hard place too being under a rather draconian 6 months probationary period…which is there to keep you working hard cos in fact you have no protection at all under 2 years unless you are in a strong union or qualify as a minority.
You don’t want to get into the habit of running bent by actually working through your breaks because one day if you have a really serious prang they will investigate everything and any illegal practices will be found and will cost your dear.
It sounds like a hire and reward transport outfit, and they will push you as much as they can if you let them…whether it pays enough and more than the average so worth doing your bit by fitting in legal breaks during loading only you can answer.
Before this job with the company, I was driving a curtain-sider. When loading/unloading, you would have to make sure that the fork-lift driver loaded you properly ie first drops last etc. You had to move the curtains for them and possibly hand-ball the odd smaller item…not to mention strapping down loaded items. This is what I had to do when loading/unloading. I got into a ‘discussion’ with the TM who said that during loading/unloading, I put myself ‘on break’ and sit in the cab and do nothing. But this is obviously impossible to do.
Now I have another role within the company. It’s another driving role which invovles operating machinery and keeping an eye on it when loading/unloading. The same is expected although the TM has now toned down as he obviously knows he’s incorrect. Nevertheless, I’ve still been given work to do which made be have a break during unloading or I would never have arrived back at base within 15 hours. And in this kind of situation, you can be guaranteed that there is nobody to answer the phone to come and pick you up should you be out of hours.
The TM one day showed me my route on the tracker because I hadn’t been able to finish my day’s work to see if I had or hadn’t been using my break time when for example waiting to be loaded. It was quite revealing of how much they know what you’re up to. They could see exactly where I was and what mode I was in at that time since my digi-card was ‘over-layed’ over the tracker ‘snail-trail’ thingy. If this TM could do that, just imagine what Vosa could do since I’m sure they could request to see the company’s tracking data. I know the police do this as in my old company an accident happened close to where the base was and they wanted to see which vehicles had passed the accident site at the time of the accident if any…around 3-4 am. So, I think I’m right in arguing my case for having proper breaks.
In the two situations you describe OP, yes you are working, and as such you should not be recording break. Kudos to you for arguing your point with the TM, and sticking to your guns.
I hope you are very well paid, and the rest of the job is great, because regular 15 hour days and no sleeper cab, and a TM straight outta ■■■■■■■■ would have me searching for pastures greener!
A lot of food service work is salaried (often class 2) and the combination of short distances driven (just WTD to worry about) and 10-15 drops a day can sometimes make it very tempting to " just stick it on break whilst I do the drop, it’s out of the way then ".
Obviously illegal, and in my opinion can start a downward spiral into the general mindset of " I am salaried anyway, so lets rush and get home". Yeeha…done in 7 hours and get paid for 8.
All very well until you miss a mirror check and knock somebody over. I don’t miss that kind of work whatsoever.
With the way this thread is going, I think I need to exercise my right to silence on the grounds I might incriminate myself! 
But I’m not paid for my breaks, and 45 mins will be deducted from my shift, so I’d be a fool not to take breaks! Yes I’ll record breaks when I’m waiting, but it doesn’t mean I won’t take another when it suits me, but I am free to pretty much run my own day and swap things about if I want, which isn’t the same for some others ruled my a POD. I trundle through my day wanting to finish, and working my breaks in as I go. most days I have multiple instances of 30+ mins break recorded, and may interrupt it before it hits 45 if it’s early in the day, just to stop it resetting my drive time. Is that all legal, yes, but am I truly free to dispose of my time as I wish? Am I in a position of locking up the truck and walking away? No, probably not… But it’s a situation that works both ways, as I appreciate the freedom of not being under any pressure as I’m trusted to be getting on with it and not extracting the urine!
Evil8Beezle:
With the way this thread is going, I think I need to exercise my right to silence on the grounds I might incriminate myself!
You don’t need to be in a position to lock the truck up and walk away, or do as you please. You just need to be able to “recuperate”.
I reckon having a stress free working environment is very conducive to being able to recuperate
At the end of the day, if it looks right and proper on a print off, you aren’t going to get in any trouble, so carry on Beeze. I too work the regs to suit me, not the other way around.
F-reds:
You just need to be able to “recuperate”.
From what mate?
There’s no point tear-arsing around reducing the weight of your pay packet if you’re hourly paid!
What if I do choose to drive a bit Miss Daisy doing my drops, I don’t give the firm a bad reputation, I get paid more and you don’t get tipped any quicker by trying to rush or harass goods in… I’m paid to deliver goods, I’m not legally obliged to be stressed while doing it! 
I wouldn’t argue the wording or legal definition of what a break is, but I can’t help being a bit militant on the issue and say that if you can’t leave the truck, you’re basically an unpaid security guard during your breaks! Thankfully I have no need or requirement to be militant, and as I get in plenty of breaks, I’d be crazy to take rigid stance against my firm. And I don’t think I’m in a situation where the I need to be protected from being overworked, I’m not! 
You need to take the legally required breaks as you could get caught out.
Also, it is a fact that you can only maintain full concentration for so long.
You are more likely to have an accident if you don’t take proper breaks.
There will also be an increased risk of you having a driving accident or a loading/unloading/manual handling accident.
If you work like that then it’s only a matter of time.
I can’t fault the general consensus of “leave”.
If you feel inclined to a spot of revenge-style behaviour, here’s two options if you feel like it, it depends how ticked off with your TM your are.
Drop the dime on him to the DVSA intelligence unit
gov.uk/government/publicati … y%20powers.
Go to gov.uk/find-vehicle-operators, find the O-licence number for the company, include the O-licence number and the name of the nominated TM (this may or may not be the same as the guy demanding you break the law) in an email to the address below, with information on what they’re doing
notifications@vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk
Listen to the guys above they are making a lot of sense. I saw a guy once on a break just giving his mirrors a bit of a wipe at a service area and dvsa were there, asked if he was on a break and told him he cannot be working and on a break, don’t know if he got pulled or not… it’s illegal.
Are you still on Break 7 years later?
Driver101:
You need to take the legally required breaks as you could get caught out.Also, it is a fact that you can only maintain full concentration for so long.
You are more likely to have an accident if you don’t take proper breaks.
There will also be an increased risk of you having a driving accident or a loading/unloading/manual handling accident.
If you work like that then it’s only a matter of time.
Good thread revival from 2016 [emoji14]
Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk
Ader1:
I would never have arrived back at base within 15 hours. And in this kind of situation, you can be guaranteed that there is nobody to answer the phone to come and pick you up should you be out of hours..
Do you think he ever learnt that wouldn’t be a solution anyway?
stu675:
Are you still on Break 7 years later?
Doh! I should know by now to look for Zombie threads 
Zac_A:
stu675:
Are you still on Break 7 years later?Doh! I should know by now to look for Zombie threads
It really doesn’t matter. Just shows that issues don’t change, and your advice/links can still help someone.