I posted earlier in a thread in the newbie forum and thought I might bring it over here for discussion. It might have been done before but i’ve been a bit bored today and I thought this might provoke a lively mass debate. Haven’t managed to work out how to do the linky thing but this is it copied and pasted. The OP was saying that he’s going for his 4th test, I thought I might start some fun but nobody really bit…Members, what do you think?
MrHappy wrote:
Are you going to consider a different career if you fail your 4th test? Some might say you’re not suited to driving a goods vehicle if you can’t get it together…Not trying to dent your hopes but i’ve always been of the opinion that there should be a limit to the number of tests for gaining a vocational licence. Discuss, while I go and get my tin hat
Richmond wrote:
What a load of cobblers !some people are just good at tests some arent, im excellant at passing tests, doesnt make me a good driver though, come on mate, he got enough pressure with his test, let alone for that type of comment…For my twopence worth, look at it from the examiners point of veiw, he knows you get better with experiance , his concern is that you dont have too many problems whist you gain that experiance, all he wants from you , is for you to show him that you can control that truck, and not be a danger to others, he wil be more intested with safety of you and others, so dont pamic if ya fluff a gearchamge or do a minor mistake, out it aside and move on. good luck. i have taught three men to drive so far, all passed some first some third, it really dont matter.
Mr Happy wrote:
Exactly. You only need to demonstrate this for one hour during your entire career, providing you don’t lose your entitlement and have to re-sit a test. My point is that if you can’t demonstrate this for one hour, how can you be expected to do it at any other time. While I agree that some find test situations easier than others, my point is that as a potential “professional driver” surely you need to have a mindset that enables you to deal with pressure situations.
You yourself are excellent at passing tests as you modestly admit and while I agree that passing a test doesn’t make you a good driver, it is the first step to trying to become one.
You can fail an HGV test nowadays for really silly wee mistakes. Is it not a fail if you touch the white line during the reverse part? How would you feel if you knew you were a good driver but the nerves just got the better of you on test day only to find you’ve maxed out your attempts and have to give up after spending god knows how much to get it?
Steve-o:
You can fail an HGV test nowadays for really silly wee mistakes. Is it not a fail if you touch the white line during the reverse part? How would you feel if you knew you were a good driver but the nerves just got the better of you on test day only to find you’ve maxed out your attempts and have to give up after spending god knows how much to get it?
But I didn’t. Thats the whole point of the discussion. My point is at some point do you have to accept that you’re not cut out for the job if you can’t handle a bit of pressure?
If there was or is any evidence to suggest the theory that repeat failers couldn’t handle the pressure then you’d be right. As I’m not aware of this then leave the test like it is 
mrpj:
If there was or is any evidence to suggest the theory that repeat failers couldn’t handle the pressure then you’d be right. As I’m not aware of this then leave the test like it is
If you are a repeat failer, you are clearly not at test standard or you simply can’t handle the pressure? Either way, are you suitable to be an hgv driver? I wouldn’t describe myself as a panicker but i’ve been in a few situations where my bum has tried to hoover the seat up, is it not the case that you need to be able to remain calm and make rational decisions under pressure?
Only you can decide if you can hack it or not regardless of the number of tests within reason.
100 tests - you ain’t gonna do it
3 , 4 ,5 - you might, just have to be sure of yourself BUT as far as I am concerned it depends on the examiner too.
First test I failed with 2 serious and 8 or so minors. Absolutely did not deserve that 
So much so that the driving school put in a complaint against the examiner 
Second test I pased 4 minor with no additional lessons or driving in between, other than the drive to the test centre.
I should have passed the first time but the examiner was a complete knob! Not because I failed but because he was and still is.
If you know you can do it, then try again, deep down you know if you deserve to pass or fail
As for how many tries you can have, I suggest after a few (4,5,6) then even if you do pass you will take longer to become a good driver with experience and maybe it’s not a natural thing for you to do.
A ‘safe’ driver on a test to test rules and regulation (if you know what I mean) does not nessecarily make a good driver in my opinion. I dont think it’s because you can’t handle the pressue it’s more of are you a natural?
There is not a chance of them ever limiting the number of tests that a driver can take to pass,the DSA is a business just like so many others, it exists because of the test fee’s,
As my instructor told me, the driving test isn’t about if you can drive or not it’s all about you driving their way for that period of time on test,do that & you pass,don’t you fail, I was driving both artic’s and ridgid’s ages before i passed both tests on a provisional whilst working, not totally legal but when you have to pay for the lessons & test fees your self any thing that will save you a few quid is worthwhile, i should also add that i was accompanied by a full licence holder in the cat required ,as most of the work was double manned
If you pass a test. then you´ve achieved the desired standard. It doesn´t matter how many failed tests come before.
Easy to make comments like that once you’ve got the license 
Saaamon:
Easy to make comments like that once you’ve got the license
True, although the point of the discussion is, do you think there should be a limit? All potential drivers have to do the same test. Some will be great at the theory, some will be great at the practical. Before you spend your money, you know that you need to pass all the necessary tests to gain your licence, therefore, if you know you go to pieces in a practical test situation with an examiner what is the point? If you cannot demonstrate for one hour that you can drive the way the DSA say you need to, regardless of whether you think the DSA or the system is right, then does there need to be a cut off point where somebody says, “Sorry your not up to scratch for this.” I don’t know what the answer is, just thought it was a good one to debate
Passing a test of any kind, only requires you to reach a standard required…it does not mean you are so qualified as to maintain that quality or to actually be employed as a whatever you passed the test on.
For a driver, there are not many people who continue to drive to the test standard, mores the pity really because if we all did ( and i try most days ) then the roads would be a safer place, i always try and maintain my place on the road by driving on the left, and always move over to the left as soon as i can, as i was once taught ( on a police driving course ) that if i am on the left, then i am always in the right.
A driver who passes his HGV test, most times finds it difficult to gain employment, this is because employers want some experience, and a certain age limit, ( under 25 means an excess on the insurance ) which employers do not want to pay. They talk to employees as if they have always done the job, or been to a certain place, or can handle certain trucks and gearboxes, so experience comes with work related issues, and sometimes it takes a long time to gain, mostly years, rather than months to reach a stage where a driver is so confident he can handle any task given to him.
Thats where this industry lets people down, especially drivers of the future, for although many can pass a test with their eyes closed 
a prospective employer will not give him that chance, or let him loose on a £100,000 outfit…because this industry lacks the proper training required to become a professional, most drivers have had to gain the experience themselves, by bluffing their way through an interview, and then gaining what they need to know once theyre on the road. I did this a number of times through my career, and especially when i wanted to do international work, answering questions such as have you been abroad or what countries have you been to…i just didnt tell them i had flown there, but it worked. Of course drivers of my age did get away with a lot, and of course we didnt have to take a test, and the bosses were a lot lenient in those days, although most had been drivers before they took office based jobs having been O/D`s beforehand. So i say good luck to any prospective drivers.
MrHappy:
Saaamon:
Easy to make comments like that once you’ve got the license
True, although the point of the discussion is, do you think there should be a limit? All potential drivers have to do the same test. Some will be great at the theory, some will be great at the practical. Before you spend your money, you know that you need to pass all the necessary tests to gain your licence, therefore, if you know you go to pieces in a practical test situation with an examiner what is the point? If you cannot demonstrate for one hour that you can drive the way the DSA say you need to, regardless of whether you think the DSA or the system is right, then does there need to be a cut off point where somebody says, “Sorry your not up to scratch for this.” I don’t know what the answer is, just thought it was a good one to debate
Are you trying to be the new ROG?
Steve-o:
MrHappy:
Saaamon:
Easy to make comments like that once you’ve got the license
True, although the point of the discussion is, do you think there should be a limit? All potential drivers have to do the same test. Some will be great at the theory, some will be great at the practical. Before you spend your money, you know that you need to pass all the necessary tests to gain your licence, therefore, if you know you go to pieces in a practical test situation with an examiner what is the point? If you cannot demonstrate for one hour that you can drive the way the DSA say you need to, regardless of whether you think the DSA or the system is right, then does there need to be a cut off point where somebody says, “Sorry your not up to scratch for this.” I don’t know what the answer is, just thought it was a good one to debate
Are you trying to be the new ROG?
Haha, funnily enough ROG is not in agreement with me, although I believe he is currently not able to join in this thread, he did pm me earlier to disagree with me.
Anyway, ROG would be better off trying to be the new Mr. Happy
MrHappy:
Saaamon:
Easy to make comments like that once you’ve got the license
True, although the point of the discussion is, do you think there should be a limit? All potential drivers have to do the same test. Some will be great at the theory, some will be great at the practical. Before you spend your money, you know that you need to pass all the necessary tests to gain your licence, therefore, if you know you go to pieces in a practical test situation with an examiner what is the point? If you cannot demonstrate for one hour that you can drive the way the DSA say you need to, regardless of whether you think the DSA or the system is right, then does there need to be a cut off point where somebody says, “Sorry your not up to scratch for this.” I don’t know what the answer is, just thought it was a good one to debate
Despite what i said i do get what your saying, especially for vocational license’s it would make sense. I personally think the focus needs to be turned to car drivers, its rare to see a good display of car driving. Tailgating, cutting junctions, inappropriate speed, failure to indicate, general untidy driving, the list goes on.
I’m by no means perfect but i atleast try and keep my driving tidy, smooth and as not to inconvenience other road users.
I don’t think there is much evidence going apart from the odd extreme example that suggests fewer test attempts = better driver. Some people cope better with test conditions than others and you can fail tests for doing things you wouldn’t have done if the examiner wasn’t sat there. If you have shelled out money for lessons then you shouldn’t be denied taking a test, although I do think the DSA should be able to be flexible with the amount of time you have to wait between tests.
Each failed test from 2 onwards = additional two week waiting time before you can book a re-test. This might deter the no hopers a bit.