So, to clarify. If I have restrictions of any form on my licence sub categories I could probably be OK if I have the full ones too?
So assuming I had C, D & The E, giving me C, D, CE, DE then restrictions on C1, C1E, D1, D1E shouldn’t cause a problem.
What about if I had, say, a C1E or D1E but no corresponding C1 or D1? Would that cause any problems? 
Saratoga:
So, to clarify. If I have restrictions of any form on my licence sub categories I could probably be OK if I have the full ones too?So assuming I had C, D & The E, giving me C, D, CE, DE then restrictions on C1, C1E, D1, D1E shouldn’t cause a problem.
As you rightly say, if you have a full category with no restrictions, you automatically gain unrestricted entitlement to all the subcategories. For example, if you hold full D entitlement, you are allowed to drive a vehicle with 12 passenger seats ‘for hire or reward’, so long as you also hold valid PCV DCPC.
The C1 and restricted C1E, D1 and D1E from a pre-1997 car test are left on your licence, as they are valid until your 70th birthday. If you stopped taking the medicals to keep C, CE, D and DE valid (or ceased to meet the medical standards), you’d still have until 70 entitlement to drive 7.5t or tow with a minibus (not for hire and reward) which cannot be done with just B and BE entitlement.
However, the C1 from a pre-1997 car test may not show separately on your licence if you hold C, because it is not subject to any restriction codes. Think of it as hiding behind your C. It’s the same as B1 often not showing for those that have B.
At 70 you would need to provide an annual D4 medical to keep the C1 and restricted C1E, D1 and D1E valid. Almost every driver that has these categories surrenders them at this point - ‘just in case’ really can’t justify the hassle and expense of an annual medical.
Saratoga:
What about if I had, say, a C1E or D1E but no corresponding C1 or D1? Would that cause any problems?
Theoretically that is impossible - you cannot hold a +E version of a category when you don’t hold the plain category. However, see my earlier comment about categories hiding in some cases and remember this is DVLA we are talking about, so outright errors are possible.
It remains to be seen if there are fewer errors once we move to the new Third Driving Licence Directive compatible photocards in January 2013. The rear of these will have every category set out, with space for start and end dates (or a line of dashes if the category is not held), German style:
However, this is just a layout change. Without changes to procedures and computer software, DVLA may well still make errors they should not. A classic is omitting DE when the licence holder has passed tests for CE and D - the law is clear so the grant of DE should be automatic.
Don’t ask me why B1 is explicitly shown in this case. DVLA seem to explicitly show B1 for B holders who originally acquired B1 along with A (in the days before bike tests stopped giving B1 entitlement) or who took their car test in 1997 or later. B1 never seems to show for those with a pre-1997 car licence who didn’t gain B1 with an A test.
Demonstrating what I said about automatically gaining entitlement to all subcategories, the licence in the picture doesn’t show A1 or A2 entitlement (motorbikes will have two subcategories after 19 January 2013), but does show full A. However, that sample is unusual in that the entitlements have a load of disability-related restriction codes. B appears to have the following codes:* 01 - eyesight correction (i.e. glasses or contact lenses required)
That’s quite an unusual set of adaptations - maybe it relates to someone of very short stature driving with pedal extensions and needing a lowered central rear-view mirror, though I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 43 code (modified driving seats) in that case.
A and AM (the new EU moped category) have 01 and 44.6 (motorcycle modified rear-view mirror). The start date of AM is somewhat misleading, in that it’s the first day the category exists (19.01.2013) rather than the day full moped entitlement was gained (05.05.1995; the A test predates the B test)
fklnpq have 118 (organ donor) marked against them, but incorrectly lack 01 - DVLA can’t even get their own example right! 
If you have 01 it should be against every category - DVLA have called in the licence of someone on TruckNet to do this when they realised some categories were not marked 01.
Probably a more common set of disability restriction codes is someone who drives category B using the most common sort of hand controls:* 30 - combined accelerator and brake (or in some cases 20 and 25 for separate modified accelerator and brake)
Wow! Thank you for another comprehensive post! Perhaps this is the sort of information that needs to be stickied or something so others can refer back to it
Just read this thread and whilst I know we’re talking about the DVLA here …
djw:
Don’t ask me why B1 is explicitly shown in this case. DVLA seem to explicitly show B1 for B holders who originally acquired B1 along with A (in the days before bike tests stopped giving B1 entitlement) or who took their car test in 1997 or later. B1 never seems to show for those with a pre-1997 car licence who didn’t gain B1 with an A test.
I’ve never fathomed this one out 
I know the DVLA never showed a B1 for a pre-1997 B category pass.
I know the DVLA showed a B1 for a pre-2001 cat A pass, strange thing was the date, it was tied in with the A pass, even if later, which is daft with it being a sub-cat of B.
djw:
fklnpq have 118 (organ donor) marked against them, but incorrectly lack 01 - DVLA can’t even get their own example right!
Information code 118 = start date is for earliest entitlement. Organ donor is 115. 
I agree that the DVLA can’t get their own example right, but why if you have 01 should it be (always) marked against every category? It should only be against every category if you need them to meet Group 1 medical standards. If it only need eyesight correction to meet Group 2 medical standards, then it should only be marked against vocational categories, and even then it shouldn’t be marked under those vocational categories gained as cat B grandfather rights.
macplaxton:
Just read this thread and whilst I know we’re talking about the DVLA heredjw:
Don’t ask me why B1 is explicitly shown in this case. DVLA seem to explicitly show B1 for B holders who originally acquired B1 along with A (in the days before bike tests stopped giving B1 entitlement) or who took their car test in 1997 or later. B1 never seems to show for those with a pre-1997 car licence who didn’t gain B1 with an A test.I’ve never fathomed this one out
I know the DVLA never showed a B1 for a pre-1997 B category pass.
I know the DVLA showed a B1 for a pre-2001 cat A pass, strange thing was the date, it was tied in with the A pass, even if later, which is daft with it being a sub-cat of B.
That’s correct - up until 2001, category A also gave B1 entitlement. After 2001, this was stopped - a category A pass only grants moped entitlement.
Once the new licence rules start in January, it will no longer be possible to take a B1 test and the UK will stop granting B1 as a separate entitlement (drivers who already have it will keep it). The number of people taking a B1 test must be vanishingly small, not least as there are so few B1 vehicles. If you are going to take professional tuition, you might as well go for full category B.
macplaxton:
djw:
fklnpq have 118 (organ donor) marked against them, but incorrectly lack 01 - DVLA can’t even get their own example right!Information code 118 = start date is for earliest entitlement. Organ donor is 115.
Well spotted - that was a mistake on my part.
macplaxton:
I agree that the DVLA can’t get their own example right, but why if you have 01 should it be (always) marked against every category? It should only be against every category if you need them to meet Group 1 medical standards. If it only need eyesight correction to meet Group 2 medical standards, then it should only be marked against vocational categories, and even then it shouldn’t be marked under those vocational categories gained as cat B grandfather rights.
Very true - but if you look at the example, there are no Group 2 categories held. The driver can’t meet the laxer Group 1 eyesight standards without correction, as evidenced by 01 against category B. fklnpq are all Group 1 - as there’s 01 against B, there should also be 01 against fklnpq.
Indeed, if there’s 01 against B, there should be 01 against all categories. An exception to this is conceivable, for example if the driver has some kind of strange visual defect that only manifests whilst wearing a crash helmet, but it is more likely to be a DVLA error.
Vocational categories granted with a pre-1997 car test pass are only on Group 1 rules until age 70. Drivers over 70 or who are on short period medical licences can only keep these categories if they meet the Group 2 medical standards, including periodic medicals. Most drivers give up these categories at age 70 for this reason.
Thanks for the response.
Here’s some DL examples I have.
1st a Cat B pass, post-97, explicitly showing the B1 and code 122 which from memory is the automatic full cat p is not valid until a CBT it done. Also lacking the now deprecated cats l & n
2nd (top) a Cat B pass, followed by a Cat A pass, pre-1997 and 3rd (bottom) with added Cat C pass, followed by Cat D and CE passes. The bottom one was a second edition on request as the first had 01 across all categories (including the provisional g &h on the counterpart).
4th (as 3rd) following photocard renewal) Back to the state it was before the last re-issue. You’d think they’d return the licence back as it was before and not make changes.
I can meet the Group one eyesight standards no bother without correction. It’s just the higher Group 2 standards I require correction on. Surely I’m not the only one?
Spot the rest of the inconsistencies?
macplaxton:
Thanks for the response.Here’s some DL examples I have.
1st a Cat B pass, post-97, explicitly showing the B1 and code 122 which from memory is the automatic full cat p is not valid until a CBT it done. Also lacking the now deprecated cats l & n
That’s right for a car test pass from 1997 onwards.
l and n are effectively obsolete - indeed, if I remember correctly, the Excise provisions for category n are no longer in operation and may even have been repealed, in which case there is no such thing as a Category n vehicle any more. Category l (electric vehicles) is rather misleading in these days of modern hybrids and electric cars. Almost every conceivable electric vehicle falls somewhere amongst the EU categories A to D.
The 122 against full Category p came in more recently (2001, I believe), making the category p moped entitlement invalid until the licence holder has passed moped or motorcycle CBT. This is a one-off requirement - the CBT certificate will show an expiry date, which still applies in connection with provisional motorcycle entitlement if CBT is taken on a motorcycle. However, the 122 restriction on category p is lifted for life. You have to keep your CBT certificate as proof of full category p entitlement, because DVLA do not record the CBT pass in your driving licence records.
There really is no point explicitly showing B1 - if you have B you are automatically entitled to drive subcategory B1 vehicles. Showing it may have been a poor attempt to hide how much less you get with a car test from 1997 onwards. Whilst many never drive vehicles outside category B, there are some who could make use of full BE and C1 entitlements that now require separate tests.
macplaxton:
2nd (top) a Cat B pass, followed by a Cat A pass, pre-1997 and 3rd (bottom) with added Cat C pass, followed by Cat D and CE passes. The bottom one was a second edition on request as the first had 01 across all categories (including the provisional g &h on the counterpart).
4th (as 3rd) following photocard renewal) Back to the state it was before the last re-issue. You’d think they’d return the licence back as it was before and not make changes.
I can meet the Group one eyesight standards no bother without correction. It’s just the higher Group 2 standards I require correction on. Surely I’m not the only one?
Spot the rest of the inconsistencies?
Licence inconsistencies
Unfortunately DVLA have sometimes managed serious problems with entitlements when reissuing licences, though my impression is that things are not as bad as they once were. Exchanging a paper licence for a photocard is particularly dodgy - in some cases people received licences with extra categories and/or categories missing.
There was one case on BBC Watchdog a few years ago where a CE holder lost both C and CE on a licence exchange - despite having a solicitor certified photocopy of his old licence showing CE, DVLA were insistent he didn’t hold C and CE - in fact, I think they’d lost his B as well and he was left with a licence that just showed his A entitlement. In the end, he retook the tests for all his missing categories to keep his job, which he would have lost whilst he continued his dispute with DVLA. Having retaken his tests, his company and personal insurers had to treat him as a newly-qualified driver because that is what his licence showed.
There were two other cases in the same programme - if I remember correctly, one was a B licence holder who received a licence only showing category A (which he had never taken a test for) and another was someone whose new licence omitted their category A and finished up having to retake their bike test (and pay a lot extra to their bike insurer).
I’ve also seen mention on these boards of someone having the examiner send off their licence after passing a vocational test and it came back showing category A as well as the expected categories. The driver in question had never taken a motorbike test.
Your licence
In your case, you have not been subjected to such a serious inconsistency - your licence correctly reflects the categories that should be held by someone who has passed tests for A, B, C, CE and D and who meets Group 2 medical standards.
As you say, if you meet the Group 1 eyesight requirements without correction, 01 should only be against your Group 2 categories. I’m not sure how much practical difference it makes to you - I guess that depends mainly on how comfortable you are in a crash helmet with glasses or contact lenses. However, as a matter of principle, I can understand you not wanting your licence showing restrictions that should not apply to you.
You’ve partially obliterated the dates, so I can’t spot some potential inconsistencies. I did spot that CE must have been the last of your vocational driving tests (as you said) and that DVLA correctly granted you DE following your CE pass, because you already had D. Sometimes DE is left off.
Some of the upgrades the UK offers are a matter of UK law, but granting DE to those holding CE and D is an EU requirement.
DVLA have shown your C1E entitlement based on your car test - not an unreasonable thing to do, as it has an earlier start date than your CE, will have a later expiry date than your CE and is based on Group 1 rather than Group 2 medical standards. It correctly has the 107 restriction code (not more than 8250kg MAM).
The C1 based on your car test is not showing explicitly, though it can be inferred from the C1E 107. It is debatable whether your licence allows you to drive C1 if you didn’t renew your vocational entitlements (or ceased to meet Group 2 medical standards).
I can understand why they’re not showing your ‘not for hire and reward’ D1 and D1E - it is of little relevance considering you have full D and DE entitlement, albeit subject to Group 2 medical standards and with an earlier expiry date. Are these categories showing on the ‘previous entitlement history’ part of your counterpart?
Again, these categories would only be of relevance if you ceased to hold your vocational entitlements for some reason - though you can drive many minibuses ‘not for hire and reward’ on category B in any case.
It seems strange and really quite daft to show unrestricted D1E starting from the same date you gained DE. DE allows you to drive any size PCV with a trailer of more than 750kg MAM - you don’t need D1E showing on your licence to tow a heavy trailer behind a minibus.
If DVLA are going to omit your ‘not for hire and reward’ D1 and D1E, it would make more sense to omit D1E from your licence completely.
Overall, I believe it would make most sense to show B, C1 and C1E (107) with your category B pass date and expiry date, as well as your A, C, CE, D and DE entitlements. Would you agree?
Looking forward to the post-January 2013 changes
I hope the hidden categories problem will disappear after we switch to the new licence format in January 2013. Surely a driving licence should correctly show all categories held. The current inconsistencies in exactly what is shown do not help. If DVLA adopt the ‘every category held’ approach, your licence will have every line filled, as you only lack g and h which would appear at the bottom.
AM, the new EU moped category (and B1 for those who took a motorbike test before it stopped granting B1) should start at the earlier of your A and B pass dates - in your case, your category B pass date. You’ll also gain category q, which is the bit of the existing category p that is not included in AM or the new category p. It will not be possible to take a category q test (anything in category q can be ridden on a A1 or higher motorbike licence).
I would expect almost all pre-1997 car licence holders under 70 and who have not lost these entitlements for medical reasons to have C1, C1E (107), D1 (101) and D1E (101 119) showing with the same start and end dates as the B entitlement. Over 70, these entitlements are only retained if the driver meets Group 2 medical standards.
The only time I would expect these categories to disappear is if a C1E, D1 and/or D1E test has been taken to remove the restriction codes. Some will have taken these tests, though I suspect it’s more common to take a longer course for the full category.
There is a potential saving in time and money by taking the subcategory tests, as the vehicles are smaller, sometimes have hydraulic brakes and typically have car like gearboxes (a manual C1 test can be taken with a car like gearbox, unlike manual C which requires a minimum of 8 forward gears - typically a slap over or range change box). However, I’d only recommend the subcategory tests to anyone who is certain they will never want to drive larger vehicles. If you are going to put yourself through the training and test, why not spend a little longer to get a vastly more flexible licence at the end?
For pre-1997 car licence holders, full category vocational entitlements only need to show against the full categories. If a licence shows D and D1 (101) and the D entitlement is still in date, the D ‘trumps’ the D1 (101), allowing the holder to drive minibuses without restriction.
For those who passed their car test in 1997 or later, I presume DVLA will show full category vocational entitlements against the relevant subcategories as well.
However, DVLA may have different ideas. It remains to be seen exactly what they do.
It would certainly help if DVLA’s explanatory notes explicitly stated that, as well as what is shown on your licence, you can also drive vehicles in any subcategories under the category you hold, subject to any restriction codes shown against the higher entitlement.
This would leave full D holders in no doubt that they can drive minibuses commercially, even if they have D1 (101) from a pre-1997 car test showing on their licence. It would also make it clear that someone with a pre-1997 (manual) car licence who later took their D test in an automatic bus, meaning their full D has a 78 restriction code (automatic transmission only), is allowed to drive an automatic minibus commercially and a manual minibus ‘not for hire or reward’.
In the post-January 2013 system, motorcycle entitlement is being split into A1, A2 and A, with the automatic upgrade from 125cc entitlement (A1) to full A after two years being abolished for new A1 test passes (I presume those passing A1 before January 2013 will still get their ‘free’ upgrade). If DVLA offered the explanation I suggested, it would be clear that someone passing a direct access test on A2 is entitled to ride A1 bikes without L plates even if A1 is not shown explicitly on the licence.
You wouldn’t think something that should be as simple as driving licences can cause so many problems!
Thank you for a comprehensive and knowledgeable reply!!! 
Cor blimey! That was a comprehensive reply. 
djw:
l and n are effectively obsolete
Indeed, hence I mentioned them being deprecated. I suppose it must have a legacy use to someone somewhere, else why bother letting it run with existing holders? The other national category (well it was a ‘group’ at the time) I didn’t mention, as it went by the wayside in (1982?) was m - trolley bus.
djw:
You have to keep your CBT certificate as proof of full category p entitlement, because DVLA do not record the CBT pass in your driving licence records.
That’s bonkers, they should record it, and maybe they’ll start doing it with the shift to category AM+P+Q
djw:
I’m not sure how much practical difference it makes to you - I guess that depends mainly on how comfortable you are in a crash helmet with glasses or contact lenses. However, as a matter of principle, I can understand you not wanting your licence showing restrictions that should not apply to you.
Practically, none. Though there may be a day when I’m busted by a over-zealous copper on the way to the shops. I’m happy wearing glasses with a crash helmet, but it’s a weather dependent thing. Under certain circumstances it’s just an additional thing to fog up.
djw:
Are these categories showing on the ‘previous entitlement history’ part of your counterpart?
Nothing is entered in that section it does explain the reason for it, but also underneath it does say “You may only drive the above if you hold current entitlement for a higher category”. Eh? If that’s the case they still need to put grandfather rights categories on the photocard, as they run different dates.
djw:
Again, these categories would only be of relevance if you ceased to hold your vocational entitlements for some reason - though you can drive many minibuses ‘not for hire and reward’ on category B in any case.
Under a section 19 permit? I would say some, rather than many. What if I wanted to go on a private trip with 16 mates to France? Would they know what a 101 is in France, as I thought the 100+/3 digit codes were national only ones?
djw:
…it would make more sense to omit D1E from your licence completely.
Yes, as the entitlement dates are the same as my DE!, you would have thought they would have done something similar to the C1E entry.
djw:
Overall, I believe it would make most sense to show B, C1 and C1E (107) with your category B pass date and expiry date, as well as your A, C, CE, D and DE entitlements. Would you agree?
I’d broadly agree, but I would say it would make sense to put my A, B, C1, C1E (107), D1 (101), D1E (101, 119) with my pass date / day before 70th. Followed by my C, CE, D, DE with my 45th (or otherwise).
djw:
Looking forward to the post-January 2013 changes…However, DVLA may have different ideas. It remains to be seen exactly what they do.
Well I know what they’d like to do, but whether they can do it as intended and get it right is another thing.
Presently, I can drive this:
or this
Under B/B1.
What’s happening post-Jan 2013? As my quick skim of 3DLD tells me a that the former is in cat A, and the latter remaining in B1.
The other thing is, if I sort the licence now, then it won’t need changing before 2022, unless my 45 birthday/medical is sooner, or I change address. If I sort it after Jan-2013, then it’s up in 5 years. Taking that into consideration, the one sorted now could last significantly longer.