Is it possible to be shunted onto an inferior contract without some kind of buy-out or pay-off?
Didn’t the recent ASDA/Sainsbury’s proposed merger fall through because ASDA staff were not going to wear the inferior Sainsbury’s contract for instance?
ASDA have a Union though.
What happens if a haulage yard doesn’t have such protection?
Winseer:
Is it possible to be shunted onto an inferior contract without some kind of buy-out or pay-off?Didn’t the recent ASDA/Sainsbury’s proposed merger fall through because ASDA staff were not going to wear the inferior Sainsbury’s contract for instance?
ASDA have a Union though.
What happens if a haulage yard doesn’t have such protection?
I think it was the mergers and monopolies commission that stopped that going ahead, I don’t believe for one second any corporation would bat an eyelid for the staff’s concerns.
Remember to bow down to your corporate masters and be thankful you have a job! 
Winseer:
Is it possible to be shunted onto an inferior contract without some kind of buy-out or pay-off?
Yes. A change of contract is proposed and ultimately if not agreed to then the employees that don’t agree to it are made redundant. They then have the choice of reapplying for their job under the new terms or going and finding work elsewhere.
Those on fixed term contracts may find that when one contract ends, any following contract offered may not the same, and could be much worse.
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Don’t ever believe unions will offer any protection.
As I have said before on here, my sister had close on 45 years service with the Gloucester Health Authority, always in a union. The area she worked in was taken over by a ‘Trust’. Unite oversaw her losing £10k a year when her contract was changed, and they wouldn’t fight it.
Cue the ones posting better t’s and c’s with unions etc. Name some good firms where the unions have helped…
Wincanton, Stobart and Downton all have a Union presence, and I don’t see any of those as top of the tree.
When all the Union said vote remain and the members vote leave, it shows what the members think too.
TUPE.
A bloody nightmare, been subject to it twice, union(unite) were useless.
Winseer:
Is it possible to be shunted onto an inferior contract without some kind of buy-out or pay-off?Didn’t the recent ASDA/Sainsbury’s proposed merger fall through because ASDA staff were not going to wear the inferior Sainsbury’s contract for instance?
ASDA have a Union though.
What happens if a haulage yard doesn’t have such protection?
Didnt really fall through, was blocked by the mergers commission. However, employees and GMB concerns from Asda were more about store/depot closures leading to job losses than having to “wear” a sainsbugs contract.
Darkside:
Don’t ever believe unions will offer any protection.As I have said before on here, my sister had close on 45 years service with the Gloucester Health Authority, always in a union. The area she worked in was taken over by a ‘Trust’. Unite oversaw her losing £10k a year when her contract was changed, and they wouldn’t fight it.
Cue the ones posting better t’s and c’s with unions etc. Name some good firms where the unions have helped…
Wincanton, Stobart and Downton all have a Union presence, and I don’t see any of those as top of the tree.
When all the Union said vote remain and the members vote leave, it shows what the members think too.
It’s what happens when people say they don’t ever want to return to the militant days of the 1970’s.So there you have it no secondary/sympathy/wild cat action,no demarcation lines differentiating jobs and pay grades,no closed shop and workers indoctrinated into the idea that militancy is bad.What can any union do in that environment.
On that note employers have always had the right to change the terms of a contract for the worse.It’s only good old fashioned solidarity and militancy, including wild cat action if the leadership goes soft/rogue,that will stop them at that point.Here’s a clue solidarity and militancy can only come from the rank and file not the leadership.But what we’ve supposedly got since Thatcher castrated the Unions is so much better and the sheep swallow it and believe it all. 
Carryfast:
Darkside:
Don’t ever believe unions will offer any protection.As I have said before on here, my sister had close on 45 years service with the Gloucester Health Authority, always in a union. The area she worked in was taken over by a ‘Trust’. Unite oversaw her losing £10k a year when her contract was changed, and they wouldn’t fight it.
Cue the ones posting better t’s and c’s with unions etc. Name some good firms where the unions have helped…
Wincanton, Stobart and Downton all have a Union presence, and I don’t see any of those as top of the tree.
When all the Union said vote remain and the members vote leave, it shows what the members think too.
It’s what happens when people say they don’t ever want to return to the militant days of the 1970’s.So there you have it no secondary/sympathy/wild cat action,no demarcation lines differentiating jobs and pay grades,no closed shop and workers indoctrinated into the idea that militancy is bad.What can any union do in that environment.
On that note employers have always had the right to change the terms of a contract for the worse.It’s only good old fashioned solidarity and militancy, including wild cat action if the leadership goes soft/rogue,that will stop them at that point.Here’s a clue solidarity and militancy can only come from the rank and file not the leadership.But what we’ve supposedly got since Thatcher castrated the Unions is so much better and the sheep swallow it and believe it all.
Obviously name calling is part of your repertoire, but please rest assured I am not a sheep.
The employers and Tories must love all the union bashing. When people rubbish the “union” they talk like it’s nothing to do with them, but a union is only as strong as the members at any particular workplace, if the members at that work place stick together and are prepared to take action then the " union" will have some clout, if the members are not prepared to take action then the “union” is powerless. Can anybody point to a a workplace that has excellent pay and conditions that is not unionised, I doubt it.
mugsy:
The employers and Tories must love all the union bashing. When people rubbish the “union” they talk like it’s nothing to do with them, but a union is only as strong as the members at any particular workplace, if the members at that work place stick together and are prepared to take action then the " union" will have some clout, if the members are not prepared to take action then the “union” is powerless. Can anybody point to a a workplace that has excellent pay and conditions that is not unionised, I doubt it.
I don’t know if would qualify as excellent pay and conditions, that is subjective to some degree, however people stayed for a long time with us despite the availability of other jobs and we weren’t unionised.
When I finished the company, I gave each driver a sum of money based on years of service, which I wasn’t under any obligation to do. Given that there were three with over 20 years and plenty with late teens service, it meant some of the long timers can go off for a week in the sun. Not every employer is out to screw its employees.
albion:
mugsy:
The employers and Tories must love all the union bashing. When people rubbish the “union” they talk like it’s nothing to do with them, but a union is only as strong as the members at any particular workplace, if the members at that work place stick together and are prepared to take action then the " union" will have some clout, if the members are not prepared to take action then the “union” is powerless. Can anybody point to a a workplace that has excellent pay and conditions that is not unionised, I doubt it.I don’t know if would qualify as excellent pay and conditions, that is subjective to some degree, however people stayed for a long time with us despite the availability of other jobs and we weren’t unionised.
When I finished the company, I gave each driver a sum of money based on years of service, which I wasn’t under any obligation to do. Given that there were three with over 20 years and plenty with late teens service, it meant some of the long timers can go off for a week in the sun. Not every employer is out to screw its employees.
Unfortunately most employers are not like that especially the large outfits where the main objective is large dividends for shareholders and the pay and conditions of employees come very low on their list of priorities.
Conor:
Winseer:
Is it possible to be shunted onto an inferior contract without some kind of buy-out or pay-off?Yes. A change of contract is proposed and ultimately if not agreed to then the employees that don’t agree to it are made redundant. They then have the choice of reapplying for their job under the new terms or going and finding work elsewhere.
Yeh, I’ve already experienced that from last October. As it happens, being laid off during the run-up to Christmas - turned out to be a Godsend!
The example I was thinking of here is when there’s a company regime change, the staff are part-through a long-ish contract that ties them into fairly decent T&Cs, which the new regime just wants to tear up, no payments made - just “sign into the new crappy contract or get laid off with no money”
The big issue for me would be “Can you be sacked with no money being paid” - which to me, is what “losing your job no money paid” amounts to…
"Hi, I’m your new boss, and if you don’t agree to sign this new contract with a £2ph pay cut, then I’m letting you go as of now.
Winseer:
The example I was thinking of here is when there’s a company regime change, the staff are part-through a long-ish contract that ties them into fairly decent T&Cs, which the new regime just wants to tear up, no payments made - just “sign into the new crappy contract or get laid off with no money”The big issue for me would be “Can you be sacked with no money being paid” - which to me, is what “losing your job no money paid” amounts to…
"Hi, I’m your new boss, and if you don’t agree to sign this new contract with a £2ph pay cut, then I’m letting you go as of now.
Define ‘regime change’.Do you mean change of ownership ?.Sounds like a case for Constructive Dismissal under TUPE regs if so.Don’t ask what happens after that though in terms of references.Make no mistake this is more like a 1930’s employment environment than a 1970’s one.Don’t believe the fluffy veneer of workers’ rights.While the reference/work history system is effectively a type of blacklisting.When CRB checks should be all that’s allowed for employers to make.
Darkside:
Carryfast:
It’s what happens when people say they don’t ever want to return to the militant days of the 1970’s.So there you have it no secondary/sympathy/wild cat action,no demarcation lines differentiating jobs and pay grades,no closed shop and workers indoctrinated into the idea that militancy is bad.What can any union do in that environment.On that note employers have always had the right to change the terms of a contract for the worse.It’s only good old fashioned solidarity and militancy, including wild cat action if the leadership goes soft/rogue,that will stop them at that point.Here’s a clue solidarity and militancy can only come from the rank and file not the leadership.But what we’ve supposedly got since Thatcher castrated the Unions is so much better and the sheep swallow it and believe it all.
Obviously name calling is part of your repertoire, but please rest assured I am not a sheep.
No,I was only calling those who think that Tatcher’s union ‘reforms’ were in the interests of union members,sheep.