Hi again, another complete newbie question!
For someone who comes to HGV driving with no previous experience in the haulage industry, what’s the usual way to learn about loading/unloading/roping/sheeting etc?
Do people normally do a quick course in that, separate from their HGV driving courses and CPC? I wouldn’t fancy literally having to learn on-the-job about how not to cause deaths/injuries from inept loading.
Thanks,
Womble
roping and sheeting? your boss or another driver or yard person would teach you the basics i would imagine.don’t take a load of timber or whatever out on the road without being 100% sure it’s safe,or your driving career could be over before it’s started 
Go to http://www.driverco.uk/toolbox.html Scroll down the page to Skills for Haulage Information where you can select and download the DVSA 2015 (VOSA) Load Securing Rules on a PDF or the Department for Transport PDF from 1972 to 2002 (Where there is more info about traditional flatbed loads with ropes and sheets etc)
Watching this guys Youtube channel wouldn’t do you any harm either… youtube.com/channel/UCPw92Z … WhP03AUAWA
Any newbie starting for the firm I work for usually goes out with an experienced driver for a week to learn the ropes,not only securing loads but some of the thousand and one thing’s that an experienced driver would take for granted.
,we no longer have any flats but the principles are the same
Paid by the hour and take your time.
I came from outside the industry with no knowledge whatsoever. It can overwhelm you if you worry about trying to learn it all at once from the start. My suggestion would be to be aware of your limitations, know what you don’t know, but wait and deal with it when the time comes that you’ll need to know. At that point there will be someone around to teach you.
For example, I started in fridge work where load security wasn’t really an issue. I then spent some time in box trailers which again needed very little strapping knowledge. When I got my first curtainsider job I went in early on my first shift and asked one of the other drivers to show me around the trailer - how the clips work, how to unlatch the poles, what to do with the internal straps etc.
I still know nothing about ratchet straps or chains, cages and tail lifts, but that’s fine because I don’t need to know at the moment. There’s a whole bunch of other stuff about axle loads, weight distribution etc that I don’t know either, but again it isn’t something I need to worry about right now.
The difficulty comes with the stuff we don’t know we don’t know. There’s no answer for that, though, except to keep an eye out and keep looking at what others are doing. Be careful, though, as not everyone is doing things right, and you don’t want to be picking up bad habits.
Thanks guys.
I guess I was scared that I would be put in a situation where I was expected to be an expert in something (knots, using chains etc) I’ve never done. Sounds like that doesn’t tend to happen in practice.
I was watching a guy throwing straps over a load of empty pallets today at an RDC. He was clearly an expert and knew what he was doing, so I spent ten minutes with him having a chat as he showed me how to use a ratchet, and how to thread the strap correctly (and incorrectly). Very nice guy, quite happy to help out, and that’s how you learn. Now I’m less afraid of ratchet straps. 
ORC:
I was watching a guy throwing straps over a load of empty pallets today at an RDC. He was clearly an expert and knew what he was doing, so I spent ten minutes with him having a chat as he showed me how to use a ratchet, and how to thread the strap correctly (and incorrectly). Very nice guy, quite happy to help out, and that’s how you learn. Now I’m less afraid of ratchet straps.
Imo, this is the sort of ‘experience/ training’ that should be part of cpc as opposed to paying extra for it rather than watching the same youtube videos over and over.
andy_s:
ORC:
I was watching a guy throwing straps over a load of empty pallets today at an RDC. He was clearly an expert and knew what he was doing, so I spent ten minutes with him having a chat as he showed me how to use a ratchet, and how to thread the strap correctly (and incorrectly). Very nice guy, quite happy to help out, and that’s how you learn. Now I’m less afraid of ratchet straps.Imo, this is the sort of ‘experience/ training’ that should be part of cpc as opposed to paying extra for it rather than watching the same youtube videos over and over.
Do you mean CPC as in the training for mod 4? That only seems to take a day, presume they don’t have much time to explain the stuff you mentioned.
Anyway a lot of CPC training seems to be classroom based - whereas for us it would be good to have several CPC hours out in the yard learning ratchet straps and the like.
andy_s:
ORC:
I was watching a guy throwing straps over a load of empty pallets today at an RDC. He was clearly an expert and knew what he was doing, so I spent ten minutes with him having a chat as he showed me how to use a ratchet, and how to thread the strap correctly (and incorrectly). Very nice guy, quite happy to help out, and that’s how you learn. Now I’m less afraid of ratchet straps.Imo, this is the sort of ‘experience/ training’ that should be part of cpc as opposed to paying extra for it rather than watching the same youtube videos over and over.
Couldn’t agree more, except so many of the DCPC trainers arn’t really lorry people at all so you would only be learning the book not the practice.
Presumably the CPC course content has to be approved? And presumably most courses cover the same classroom based ground that has been approved countless times already?
I wonder if a proper truck training company might be able to put together a more practical course that does much more hands-on skills based training rather than all classroom theory. It would probably be far more valuable to many drivers, and perhaps popular too, since we’re not famed for our enjoyment of sitting indoors all day…
Wow, all the courses I have ever done (so non-haulage ones) have been with lecturers/instructors who themselves had the qualification they were teaching me for. Seems bizarre this doesn’t apply here.
How about a simple requirement for DCPC instructors to have a minimum class C licence?
wombleofwimbledon:
Wow, all the courses I have ever done (so non-haulage ones) have been with lecturers/instructors who themselves had the qualification they were teaching me for. Seems bizarre this doesn’t apply here.How about a simple requirement for DCPC instructors to have a minimum class C licence?
What difference does having a cat C licence make? You have one of those - could you do the job? It takes a few days to get a cat C licence and means you managed to pass a very basic 90 minute driving test.
ORC:
I wonder if a proper truck training company might be able to put together a more practical course that does much more hands-on skills based training rather than all classroom theory. It would probably be far more valuable to many drivers, and perhaps popular too, since we’re not famed for our enjoyment of sitting indoors all day…
What’s a proper truck Training company? I know a few where the trainers have never secured a load themselves having never actually been drivers.
The idea of practical training is brilliant, but unfortunately these kind of practical sessions tend to be far more expensive. For a start the number of candidates allowed would be restricted, there’s a vehicle/truck ■■■■■■■ sitting in the yard etc.
I think the other issue, if you are talking load security is that the industry is so varied a course that suits one driver would not suit another. The variety of loads is huge. Does the training company have a load of pallets or steel or timber? Do they have a flat or a curtain or a double deck or a box or a fridge?
The only real way of doing the kind of training you suggest is to do it in house at the employers premises where the appropriate equipment will be available for the job they do. This is how CPC needs to be done. Employers need to take responsibility.
shep532:
wombleofwimbledon:
Wow, all the courses I have ever done (so non-haulage ones) have been with lecturers/instructors who themselves had the qualification they were teaching me for. Seems bizarre this doesn’t apply here.How about a simple requirement for DCPC instructors to have a minimum class C licence?
What difference does having a cat C licence make? You have one of those - could you do the job? It takes a few days to get a cat C licence and means you managed to pass a very basic 90 minute driving test.
I meant more the opposite - ie remove DCPC trainers who haven’t even got a cat C licence.
Most lecturers/instructors in other fields have years of experience in the topic they are teaching. I agree this should ideally apply to DCPC too.
wombleofwimbledon:
shep532:
wombleofwimbledon:
Wow, all the courses I have ever done (so non-haulage ones) have been with lecturers/instructors who themselves had the qualification they were teaching me for. Seems bizarre this doesn’t apply here.How about a simple requirement for DCPC instructors to have a minimum class C licence?
What difference does having a cat C licence make? You have one of those - could you do the job? It takes a few days to get a cat C licence and means you managed to pass a very basic 90 minute driving test.
I meant more the opposite - ie remove DCPC trainers who haven’t even got a cat C licence.
Most lecturers/instructors in other fields have years of experience in the topic they are teaching. I agree this should ideally apply to DCPC too.
So you would ‘remove’ a trainer who has an inside out knowledge of transport legislation and the ability to help people understand this complex legislation - just because he hasn’t got a cat C licence?
Maybe then we can have a pile of DCPC trainers with cat C and CE licence, 10 years of working on the agency flitting from one job up to the next and ■■■■■■■ most of them up … Hhhmmm - they fit your criteria 
There isn’t an answer to your point. There aren’t many qualifications that a trainer can have that means he knows what is needed. It is up to the training providers to ensure their trainers have relevant experience as well as qualifications. I have my own criteria for any trainers I would employ. Many have come for interview and I have turned them away because of lack of industry experience and knowledge. I have also had ex-Drivers turn up who unfortunately have all the wrong experience. Holding a driving licence for a particular category doesn’t unfortunately mean much.
However - I see you point and agree there are DCPC trainers who just shouldn’t be. But there are plenty of drivers that just shouldn’t be drivers as well 
Silly question - can anyone be a DCPC trainer if someone will employ them? Do they need to have been trained as DCPC trainers or have any qualifications or minimum experience?
Some of the training I’ve done, the trainers had to have passed the same exam they’re teaching but with a better score than I needed.
wombleofwimbledon:
Silly question - can anyone be a DCPC trainer if someone will employ them? Do they need to have been trained as DCPC trainers or have any qualifications or minimum experience?Some of the training I’ve done, the trainers had to have passed the same exam they’re teaching but with a better score than I needed.
Nope - anybody can do it. The training centre has to be able to show that the trainer is suitably qualified/experienced when they are audited but that could just be a letter in a file saying “Bob knows his stuff” signed The MD.
During a centre audit they may want to see a trainers ‘CPD’ file to show they keep up to date with things but that’s easily bluffed.
So - it is all left to the training centre and their standards.
My company criteria is :- Must hold Operator CPC, Must hold at least Cat C, must hold PTLLS or equivelant/higher teaching qualification, must pass an interview by MD, must attend a ‘transfer of knowledge’ course for each course to be delivered, must deliver a full course with the MD sitting on the course (applies for each individual course) before being allowed to put a course on by themselves. They must also maintain their CPD file with evidence of learning.
Obviously the interview is to gauge their knowledge. The transfer of knowledge is to show them how we want the course delivered and also give them the required information and the final hurdle of delivering a course whilst being assessed is to satisfy the MD theyre doing it right.
Of course that means it’s all down to the MD - which happens to be me I’ve been doing this since 2009 and so far have just 2 trainers I will allow to deliver my training, but both haven’t delivered a course in over a year so their authorisation has expired and they have to do the transfer of knowledge and audited delivery again before being allowed to deliver courses. I have turned down at least 5 people who wanted to deliver my courses.
All of the above is detailed in my company policies and I stick to it. Unfortunately not all training providers go to this sort of extent. I think RTITB will authorise a trainer to deliver over 50 different courses on completion of a 2 day train the trainer course. I may be wrong.
So yep - anyone can do it
Guy who took us for 35hr cpc was just another driver with the agency that were doing the cpc… when he’s not doing the courses, he spend his time doing tesco rdc hauling.