Law absurds

[orys]

I just readed about most absurdal laws in Poland. And two most absurdal regarding to transport industry so I want to share it with you as a curiousity.

1. You may have cat. D licence and no cat. B licence and then you can drive buses and carry people but you can’t drive alone in your own car

2. If you have your own company or farm and you running lorry for you own needs you must obtain certificate to prove, that you DON"T HAVE operator’s licence. (And it costs up to 120 pounds each year)

Other thing what I know is that the court might ban you only from driving onme category of vehicle. So if you was caught drink-driving a bus, you loosing your D licence and you still can drive a tanker for example

Are there any similar curiosities in UK?

[macplaxton]

Can’t think of any current ones, but can think of past ones.

You could get a B1 licence if you passed your bike test before about 2002/3.

You could sidestep the 125cc learner limit on a bike if it had a sidecar attached. Exploiting this loophole was the “sidewinder” it was a like a small tilting show tray! (Anyone had one attached to their GSX-R 1100?)

[orys]

macplaxton:
Can’t think of any current ones, but can think of past ones.

You could get a B1 licence if you passed your bike test before about 2002/3.

You could sidestep the 125cc learner limit on a bike if it had a sidecar attached. Exploiting this loophole was the “sidewinder” it was a like a small tilting show tray! (Anyone had one attached to their GSX-R 1100?)

Is that why three-whellers are so popular here?

[macplaxton]

Yes and no, a lot of owner’s do have full B entitlement but like the GRP body and economy 50+ mpg and £64 road tax. Since Reliant stopped making them, some have moved onto Microcars and Aixams. (although not super-slug specification French “sans permis” models)

[limeyphil]

orys.
how easy is it to get a c+e licence in poland. i’ve heard that you can pass it on a tractor? if that is true then it’s another crazy law.

[orys]

No. That’s rubbish. In fact it’s harder to obtain driving licence in Poland then here.

I already explained that, so I paste it again here for you:

orys:

Kenny1975:

truckyboy:
And last but not least…dont forget that you can buy a driving licence very cheaply for any vehicle you want in Poland, and even on the Internet if you dont want to travel…with or without theory test results…

I’d like Orys view on that.

Ok. Quoted above - crap. You can try, if you want, but we have computer system for driving licenses better then in UK (for exapmle all penalty points are in the system only, you don’t have counterpart license, everything is made “on-line”) so most propably you can get false one. Maybe some police officer will not check this with central and you can pass the road control once or twice, but it’s only matter of time when you will be caught. And you cannot swap it for british one, as they will send it to Poland and they will find that this one was never issued and you are in troubles.

Buying a licence on the internet, well thats i’d imagine a complete scam where stupid people hand over money and get ripped off.

Excaltly!

I hear a lot of talk about Polish licences, that the test isnt a high standard, that you can buy a licence, you can sit your C+E in a tractor and get your full licence.

Crap!

Driving tests in Poland:

First you have to do theory test. It’s fully computerised and questions are generated randomly for you from huge database, so you can’t cheat on it.

Then it’s coming to maneuvres:

That is a standard maneuvre placve in examination centre:
See on the left: that’s for C,D, C+E, D+E, T (farm tracotrs with one trailer) and T+E (farm tractor with two trailers).

You must can do things like:

Go forward on straight way then on the coned bend and stop in proper distance from the end. Then reverse the same way and stop close to the line (no cones on the straight part!)

Reverse to the coned “garage” - 90 degree angle from the “road” and go of from there.

Go forward to the coned “garage” - 45 degree from the “road” and go back.

(When in the “garages” you must leave the space on the left to be able to get out from vehicle).

Park into the envelope (like with car in the city centre).
This one in my opinion is stupid one. How often are you doing that with artics?

Change direction when on the road (that’s B and C only)

Stop and start upon the hill (and you can’t go back more then 20 cm)

You must be prepared to do every of them on your test, but there are only 2 random checked.

So IMHO that part in UK compared to polish one is peace of cake.

Few years ago they changed the rules and now tests are conducted on wagon and drags like that one:

or on artics. But few years ago you had to pass your C+E with this kind of trailer:

Be honest with me: who can do all this maneuvres with trailer like that if you can correct your mistakes only twice?

Then “on the road” part

There aren’t any fixed examination routes. You are just going into the city with examinator for 40 minutes. He’s duty is to be sure, that you will meet all required elements, but he can make it in any order and make you driving any route.

He is able to order you “turn right, turn left, park here, make an U-turn” but he can’t tell you “turn right” when it’s “no entry for lorries” sign for examle there. But he can tell you “turn first right, when possible” or make you driven to the junction where you can’t go forward, as there is “no entry for lorries” or weight limit after the junction. (I failed my first C one on such place). So you can’t be prepared for some particular route, as you never know where you will go on your test.

And last but not least: you are doing your test on the examination lorry, not on this one, what you was learning on.

For example I was taking driving lessons on 11 tons mercedes like this one:

And i passed my test on this particular one 18 tons Atego:

So I think it’s not so easy.

And i have to mention that it’s not possible to be teached but someone who is not a fully trained driving instructor. So you have 20 hours on your driving course and if you need more, you must pay for it.

BRIBES:

There were some problems with bribes in the past. For example that’s the reason why I don’t have my class one - simply 8 of 11 examinators were aressted when I was passing my test and I was waiting 5 few months for free booking in examination centre each time when I was trying my test (I passed second one). If you wait over 6 months you have to take additional 5 hours of driving in driving school. So now examinators are too scared to get a bribe, so It’s virtualy impossible to buy a good test result. All examination vehicles are fitted with cameras and microphones, so everything is recorded. And police are doing checks back in database and they finding everyone who bought their licences in the past, so that’s only matter of time to catch everyone.

That’s all about driving tests in Poland. So are we close to british standards?

Now, when you passed your driving test you can buy your own lorry and drive for pleasure, for your own needs (if you got a farm for example etc) and so on. But to be employed you must do additional course about proffesional transport and pass another test. Even if you have foreign licence - you simply cannot be employed without that, altough you can drive.

I think in someways its BS and the real problem is that people are coming over here with a fresh HGV licence and have the same experience as someone who has just passed their UK driving licence. The problem is they don’t know the roads, they havent got experience of driving on our roads etc… so get into much more problems.

Exactly!

EDITED: I forgot one thing: at the maneuvre part of driving test when you doing B+E or C1+E or C+E you must drive your vehicle to the trailer and couple it and at the end of all uncouple and return to the start position which is side-by-side.

[limeyphil]

oh.

[ragnarok]

The most absurd local traffic law in London are the ‘no left turns’ … what the hell is that all about ?

To cap it all, at these ‘no left turns’ they usually site a well hidden camera, because they know people will ignore these idiotic signs.

Another nice little earner for the local council

[orys]

Maybe that is becouse there is pedestrian crossing there?

[willie_mac]

Orys you should give up on the comics and reading Jeremy Clarkson and buy a book on grandma, gramma GRAMMAR…lolol

[orys]

englishgrammarsecrets.com/index.html is that one good?

[macplaxton]

limeyphil:
oh.

Well you did ask limeyphil!

It’s probably one of these things that you got under grandfather rights in nineteen-canteen.

Just think the Irish were giving away car licences back in 1979 to clear the backlog of tests. There still doing it now, although it’s sub-contracted testing that’s letting a lot of people pass, apparently .

[gsm31]

orys:
No. That’s rubbish. In fact it’s harder to obtain driving licence in Poland then here.

I already explained that, so I paste it again here for you:

orys:

Kenny1975:

truckyboy:
And last but not least…dont forget that you can buy a driving licence very cheaply for any vehicle you want in Poland, and even on the Internet if you dont want to travel…with or without theory test results…

I’d like Orys view on that.

Ok. Quoted above - crap. You can try, if you want, but we have computer system for driving licenses better then in UK (for exapmle all penalty points are in the system only, you don’t have counterpart license, everything is made “on-line”) so most propably you can get false one. Maybe some police officer will not check this with central and you can pass the road control once or twice, but it’s only matter of time when you will be caught. And you cannot swap it for british one, as they will send it to Poland and they will find that this one was never issued and you are in troubles.

Buying a licence on the internet, well thats i’d imagine a complete scam where stupid people hand over money and get ripped off.

Excaltly!

I hear a lot of talk about Polish licences, that the test isnt a high standard, that you can buy a licence, you can sit your C+E in a tractor and get your full licence.

Crap!

Driving tests in Poland:

First you have to do theory test. It’s fully computerised and questions are generated randomly for you from huge database, so you can’t cheat on it.

Then it’s coming to maneuvres:

That is a standard maneuvre placve in examination centre:
See on the left: that’s for C,D, C+E, D+E, T (farm tracotrs with one trailer) and T+E (farm tractor with two trailers).

You must can do things like:

Go forward on straight way then on the coned bend and stop in proper distance from the end. Then reverse the same way and stop close to the line (no cones on the straight part!)

Reverse to the coned “garage” - 90 degree angle from the “road” and go of from there.

Go forward to the coned “garage” - 45 degree from the “road” and go back.

(When in the “garages” you must leave the space on the left to be able to get out from vehicle).

Park into the envelope (like with car in the city centre).
This one in my opinion is stupid one. How often are you doing that with artics?

Change direction when on the road (that’s B and C only)

Stop and start upon the hill (and you can’t go back more then 20 cm)

You must be prepared to do every of them on your test, but there are only 2 random checked.

So IMHO that part in UK compared to polish one is peace of cake.

Few years ago they changed the rules and now tests are conducted on wagon and drags like that one:

or on artics. But few years ago you had to pass your C+E with this kind of trailer:

Be honest with me: who can do all this maneuvres with trailer like that if you can correct your mistakes only twice?

Then “on the road” part

There aren’t any fixed examination routes. You are just going into the city with examinator for 40 minutes. He’s duty is to be sure, that you will meet all required elements, but he can make it in any order and make you driving any route.

He is able to order you “turn right, turn left, park here, make an U-turn” but he can’t tell you “turn right” when it’s “no entry for lorries” sign for examle there. But he can tell you “turn first right, when possible” or make you driven to the junction where you can’t go forward, as there is “no entry for lorries” or weight limit after the junction. (I failed my first C one on such place). So you can’t be prepared for some particular route, as you never know where you will go on your test.

And last but not least: you are doing your test on the examination lorry, not on this one, what you was learning on.

For example I was taking driving lessons on 11 tons mercedes like this one:

And i passed my test on this particular one 18 tons Atego:

So I think it’s not so easy.

And i have to mention that it’s not possible to be teached but someone who is not a fully trained driving instructor. So you have 20 hours on your driving course and if you need more, you must pay for it.

BRIBES:

There were some problems with bribes in the past. For example that’s the reason why I don’t have my class one - simply 8 of 11 examinators were aressted when I was passing my test and I was waiting 5 few months for free booking in examination centre each time when I was trying my test (I passed second one). If you wait over 6 months you have to take additional 5 hours of driving in driving school. So now examinators are too scared to get a bribe, so It’s virtualy impossible to buy a good test result. All examination vehicles are fitted with cameras and microphones, so everything is recorded. And police are doing checks back in database and they finding everyone who bought their licences in the past, so that’s only matter of time to catch everyone.

That’s all about driving tests in Poland. So are we close to british standards?

Now, when you passed your driving test you can buy your own lorry and drive for pleasure, for your own needs (if you got a farm for example etc) and so on. But to be employed you must do additional course about proffesional transport and pass another test. Even if you have foreign licence - you simply cannot be employed without that, altough you can drive.

I think in someways its BS and the real problem is that people are coming over here with a fresh HGV licence and have the same experience as someone who has just passed their UK driving licence. The problem is they don’t know the roads, they havent got experience of driving on our roads etc… so get into much more problems.

Exactly!

EDITED: I forgot one thing: at the maneuvre part of driving test when you doing B+E or C1+E or C+E you must drive your vehicle to the trailer and couple it and at the end of all uncouple and return to the start position which is side-by-side.

Complete hogwash.
There’s a Pole working beside me who is going back home for 2 weeks holiday shortly.
When he comes back he will have C+E on his licence and he isn’t going to be doing any training or sitting a test.

[lee_g]

gsm31:
Complete hogwash.
There’s a Pole working beside me who is going back home for 2 weeks holiday shortly.
When he comes back he will have C+E on his licence and he isn’t going to be doing any training or sitting a test.

grass him up then. NOW

vosa or dvla or even the police i’m sure would be interested in this fact! the sooner we get this sort of scum off the roads of britain the better!

or is he just pulling your dangly bit to look good and he has got a course booked?

[orys]

Maybe he was doing his course before and now he’s only going to pass his test? And he is trying to impress you?

That’s ■■■■■■■■. But if that’s true, just tell me where is he from and I’ll report that problem to proper WORD. (district examination centre).

google.co.uk/search?q=wojewo … =firefox-a

[orys]

Or he had passed his tests some time ago and now he will only swap his licence to new one?

It’s one month waiting, so he might have no time for that last time when he was in Poland?

[gsm31]

He’s been here 4 years and still driving on his Polish licence,he’s only got Class C on it.
If he’d exchanged for a UK licence he wouldn’t have been able to do it.
Once he gets C+E on his Polish licence, he’s going to exchange for UK licence.

[macplaxton]

He shouldn’t be taking a Polish test to do CE. He isn’t resident in Poland. For licence upgrades, if you’re resident longer than six months, you take it in the where you’re ordinarily resident.

Blow the whistle.

[orys]

gsm31:
He’s been here 4 years and still driving on his Polish licence,he’s only got Class C on it.
If he’d exchanged for a UK licence he wouldn’t have been able to do it.
Once he gets C+E on his Polish licence, he’s going to exchange for UK licence.

It’s nothing wrong to drive on polish license here - I am also driving on my polish license. I only got british counterpart to it and now, by law, I am considered as full UK license holder.

He propably made his course and test on some previous holidays and now he is exchanging his polish C for his polish C+E and then he will exchange his polish C+E for british C+E (but I don’t know why, as it’s not necesarry, unless he is older then 45).

That’s not so bad, but it’s also illegal, as according to european rules altough you do not need to exchange your licence when you are moving to another country, you must leave in this particular country for at last 185 days (if I remember good) in last year to be able to pass driving test there. He lives in UK, so obviously he is not meeting this condition and therefore his driving license won’t be legal. But it’s not a major problem I think and that won’t influence british road safety, altough I am not approving it.

I was also thinking about making my class one in Poland as it’s cheaper, but as I checked everything if you add your flight costs and lost income it’s about the same amount of money. And driving test here seems to be easier, so I will do my class one here.