I’ve got into offroading over the last couple of years and I’m involved with a couple of forums to do with it, someone on one of them has complained lately that his work have fitted tacho’s to their landrovers and it’s cut overtime right down etc etc (welcome to our world 
).
I think it’s because they often pull trailers, he said something about they only need to use the tacho’s if they’ll be towing for a certain amount of days in a month or whatever. I assume a landrover which is over 2t unladen has a train weight of over 3.5t hence the requirement?
Can anyone explain the ins and outs of this for me please, just out of curiosity?
It is as you suspected. A Land Rover Defender is usually plated at either 3050 or 2500kg depending on the model, so any trailer on the back puts the train weight over 3500kg and so a tacho is required for commercial use. My 110, for example, is plated at 3050kg with a GTW of 6550kg so in theory I can put about a ton in the back (it tares at about 2100kg) and tow another 3.5tons with a suitable trailer. I dread to think how slow it would be at that sort of weight though…
Paul
darkseeker:
he said something about they only need to use the tacho’s if they’ll be towing for a certain amount of days in a month or whatever
I think you may find that refers to the RT(WTD)R mobile workers rules and not the EU driver regs rules
Definition of an occasional mobile worker under the 2005 Regulations
A mobile worker would be exempt from the 2005 Regulations if:
he works 10 days or less within scope of the European drivers’ hours rules in a reference period that is shorter than 26 weeks; or
he works 15 days or less within scope of the European drivers’ hours rules in a reference period that is 26 weeks or longer.
I cannot find any exemption that says a driver is exempt EU regs simply on the amount of times that they are required to be used in a certain period of time
if you pull a trailer commercially then you are subject to tacho and driving time rules. Not sure how the rules apply when your driving the same vehicle without the trailer though? I guess it’ll be the same rules as a lorry driver driving a van as part of their working week?
I see your at lincoln, are you going to total offroad at KORC at the end of the month? If so look out for me, I currently have a baggy old rangie 
I have a mate who drives a sprinter with a trailer so a techo is fitted after he unloads he pops the trailer onto the sprinter
no techo required and can drive home within the law without a card in .rearrange these words… law is ■■■ the a.
There was a copany called truckpanels they pulled 45ft twin axle lightweight trailers behind Landrovers 20 odd years
ago and had techo’s fitted. they was carring glass fibre roof panels for trailers.
John
Thanks guys, no loopholes by the sounds of it - I was hoping to help him out as he’s not impressed at all 
cynic-al; Sadly, I won’t be - I’d planned a trip to the peak district laneing but could only just afford it (landy needs mot and tax) UNTIL the nice vosa man shafted me for £200 
Gonna have to wait until I’m feeling rich again, at least it gives me more time to finish the welding and replace all the brakepipes.
repton:
It is as you suspected. A Land Rover Defender is usually plated at either 3050 or 2500kg depending on the model, so any trailer on the back puts the train weight over 3500kg and so a tacho is required for commercial use. My 110, for example, is plated at 3050kg with a GTW of 6550kg so in theory I can put about a ton in the back (it tares at about 2100kg) and tow another 3.5tons with a suitable trailer. I dread to think how slow it would be at that sort of weight though…
Paul
a bit off topic but we have a transit van at work that is 3500 but weighs about 2500 can it pull a trailor plated at 2600,we thought not as if transit empty and trailor loaded tail is wagging dog so too speak
eddster1979:
a bit off topic but we have a transit van at work that is 3500 but weighs about 2500 can it pull a trailor plated at 2600,we thought not as if transit empty and trailor loaded tail is wagging dog so too speak
Have a look at the plate under the bonnet (or wherever it is) or look at the manual for it and it should tell you what the towing capacity is. At a guess a 3500kg transit should be fine pulling a 2600kg trailer but don’t quote me on that.
Paul
probably depends on how the transit and trailer are loaded, they can be pretty sensitive to nose weight.
I thought it all went on MAM, so even an empty trailer would require a tacho?
If i wasn’t so lazy i’d go read the manual
Cynic-al:
I thought it all went on MAM, so even an empty trailer would require a tacho?
It does go on MAM, yes. Any combination with a MAM over 3500kg needs a tacho, even if the actual weight is well below that.
Paul
repton:
Cynic-al:
I thought it all went on MAM, so even an empty trailer would require a tacho?
It does go on MAM, yes. Any combination with a MAM over 3500kg needs a tacho, even if the actual weight is well below that.
Paul
would that only be if the trailer has a MAM ? - I could be wrong but I think some trailers do not have a plated MAM which means they go on actual weight ■■?
ROG:
would that only be if the trailer has a MAM ? - I could be wrong but I think some trailers do not have a plated MAM which means they go on actual weight ■■?
I’m not sure on the exact details but I’m pretty sure any trailer built in the last couple of decades has to have a plate with the MAM on it by law. Can’t find anything to back that up right now though so I could be wrong. Certainly any trailer from any reputable manufacturer will have one on.
Paul
repton:
ROG:
would that only be if the trailer has a MAM ? - I could be wrong but I think some trailers do not have a plated MAM which means they go on actual weight ■■?
I’m not sure on the exact details but I’m pretty sure any trailer built in the last couple of decades has to have a plate with the MAM on it by law. Can’t find anything to back that up right now though so I could be wrong. Certainly any trailer from any reputable manufacturer will have one on.
Paul
our transit is used 2 pull a 2600 trailor loaded with mowers and sometimes the transit is empty weighing 2500 so the tail is wagging the dog and i always thought the unladen towing vehicle had 2 weigh more than the laden trailor,even if theyre both unladen u still couldnt because of the plated weight?
eddster1979:
i always thought the unladen towing vehicle had 2 weigh more than the laden trailor,even if theyre both unladen u still couldnt because of the plated weight?
Not written in law but recommended by most manufacturers
eddster1979:
i always thought the unladen towing vehicle had 2 weigh more than the laden trailor,even if theyre both unladen u still couldnt because of the plated weight?
As ROG says, there’s nothing in law about this, but it is usually recommended that the trailer doesn’t weigh more than the vehicle towing it. In fact it is quite common to see the recommendation that the trailer shouldn’t weigh more than 85% of the weight of the towing vehicle which is being even more cautious. Again though this is just a recommendation for safe towing and not a legal maximum.
Paul
I tow my trailer with a pickup with 1 tonne springs on the back so i tend to load it nose heavy which helps it tow better when the pickup is empty. Obviously you don’t want to go silly and damage the hitch, most trailer manufactures seem to recommend about 100kg on the hitch.
All trailers should be plated, there was talk of an MOT for car trailers which would include plating, brakes, lights, mud guards, sharp edges, dimensions, tyres, suspension and general condition as well as a type test for home mades however it hasn’t happened yet.
Also if you read the letter of the law the tow vehicle should have a higher tow weight than the trailer MAM, so if your car is rated at 2000kg it can’t tow an empty 3500kg trailer which only weighs 700kg. Completely stupid in my opinion, it doesn’t stop someone buying a 2000kg mam trailer and sticking 3000kg on it.
Look out for me if you ever goto KORC, i go most months, i drive this think thats stuck. The ground looked hard but it turns out it was soft 
Let’s try and put all this into some sort of perspective.
A vehicle where the Maximum Authorised Mass (including that of any trailer drawn) exceeds 3.5 tonnes falls into EU drivers’ hours regulations unless otherwise exempt. The term MAM relates to the weight shown on the Manufacturers Plates in the case of an LGV or on the Ministy Plate for a UK HGV, not what the vehicle (and trailer) actually weigh at the time.
If the vehicle falls in to the EU drivers’ hours rules then a Tachograph must be fitted and used.
Assume that the Land Rover has a manufacturers plate showing; Train weight of 6 500Kg, and gross weight of 2 600Kg and tows a trailer with a plate showing 2 600Kg. There are two things that need to be confirmed;
-
when the trailer is towed does the MAM exceed 3.5 tonnes? Answer; yes the train weight is 6 500Kg.
-
when the trailer is towed, does the sum of the gross weights exceed 3.5 tonnes? Answer in this instance is again yes, 2 600 + 3 500 = 6 100Kg.
So unless exempt from the EU drivers’ hours rules by either Article 3 or one of the derogations contained within SI 2007/1918 a Tacho must be fitted and used when on an EU journey.
On days where the vehicle only spends part of its’ day towing a trailer the EU rules apply for the time that the trailer is towed. During the time that no trailer is towed then the Domestic rules apply. However, the driver MUST take an EU daily rest period that day and an EU weekly rest period. EU rules regarding breaks from continuous driving only apply whilst the trailer is being towed. The daily driving limit for Domestic hours cannot be exceeded. A record will have to be kept for the whole days’ duty, even the bits that come under the Domestic hours rules.
Weight limits. Generally speaking to find the towing capacity of the vehicle take the vehicle gross weight off the train weight. In the above example it would be 6500-2600 = 3500. However, a trailer that exceeds 3500Kg requires power brakes rather than overrun brakes so the manufacturers handbook will limit the towing capacity to 3500Kg, which takes you out of the problem of having to fit power brakes to the trailer. With these weights it is the actual weight rather than the plated weight that is important. My Shogun is permitted to tow no more than 3300Kg. There is nothing to stop me putting a trailer plated at 3500Kg behind the Shogun, but when weighed, the trailer may not exceed 3300Kg, otherwise I commit an offence.
Non-goods carrying trailers eg compressors, generators etc. Treat them as if they were goods carrying when thinking about tachos. The case of Pritchard & Devenish vs DPP established that fact.
The bit about you have to drive so many times in a month before you come under EU drivers’ hours rules. MMTM 
ANY driving on a road and the whole journey is under EU drivers’ hours. The how many times applies to RT(WT)R where you may be exempt if classed as an ‘occasional driver.’
Are there still trailers out there which legally have no plated weight on them?
If yes, does that go by the actual weight being towed?
ROG:
Are there still trailers out there which legally have no plated weight on them?
If yes, does that go by the actual weight being towed?
Yes, there are loads of ‘old’ home made trailers that don’t have plates on them.
Usually go on tyre load index as that would give a maximum authorised mass
