The whole industry needs to be overhauled starting with more and better facilities so you can easily choose where to park, eat and relax. Then look at the hours they are ridiculous especially for a lone worker who’s main aim is to concentrate at a high level for 4.5 hour stints, it’s hard to do and I know I struggled when I was driving at night especially.
I doubt anyone will look in the mirror and accept any of the blame for this drivers actions but they should, when was the last time your boss called you after a long day and said don’t worry about that load make sure you get a good nights sleep. It’s most likely to be I know you will try but that load has to be there by whatever time, they have a duty of care to you as well as the blinking load of whatever it may be and you are more important by far. No one ever said I am glad he got that load done on time at a funeral it’s more likely to be he fell asleep and look at the paperwork I have to do now because of him.
Old John:
Harry Monk:
robroy:
My point was that if ever there was a bloody good reason for H&S to kick in as a priority in drivers hours, it’s the amount of time we are allowed (and encouraged) to work in the nature of the work we do, and the risks involved due to tiredness.Health and Safety has nothing to do with health or safety, it’s all about mitigating and minimising claims against an employer’s insurance. As it is legal to work a 15 hour day then a company cannot be found negligent for having its drivers do so. The Government or eu could reduce road deaths by reducing drivers’ hours but this would be at the cost of also reducing profits in the road transport sector which they would never do.
Harry, I always think you talk a lot of sense when posting, and I respect your experience in the industry.
However, I disagree with your last point regarding a potential reduction in permitted hours of duty resulting in reduced profitability for the transport industry. In general, we all have to abide by the rules, and if, due to any changes to the hours regulations, companies cannot sweat their assets to the extent that they did previouslythen the answer is simple. Put your rates up.
It’s the same as the fuel issue. We all have to buy fuel, and when the price is not affordable at whatever level it is, put your rates up. Don’t blockade refineries or go on go slows down the motorway.
Work together and PUT THE RATES UP!!!
When will it happen? Never.
The customers know it and the politicians know it. As a consequence, we, the hauliers, large and small, get what we so richly deserve. Rogered vigorously, right up the fundament.I feel much better now!!
An excellent and civilised exchange of opinions from 3 members whom I have a lot of respect for.
This is how it should be folks 
As ever, it comes down to regarding the 9/11 hour Rest as a MINIMUM limit, not a ■■■■■■■ target!
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When I’m tired, I pull over at the next safe place and power nap for a good 10-15 minutes. Back up fresh as ever.
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DSMRookie:
When I’m tired, I pull over at the next safe place and power nap for a good 10-15 minutes. Back up fresh as ever.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Btw I think she got 12 months prison suspended for 2 years and a 5 year ban with extended test when she wants to take it again
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DSMRookie:
DSMRookie:
When I’m tired, I pull over at the next safe place and power nap for a good 10-15 minutes. Back up fresh as ever.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Btw I think she got 12 months prison suspended for 2 years and a 5 year ban with extended test when she wants to take it again
If you read the reports, it is stated that taking several short breaks during the drive is exactly what she did. Not that they made any difference to her nodding off or to her exceeding 10 hours’ driving…
stu675:
What’s the likely result of this? New job? new career? Huge fine? Prison?
She was helping out her Family firm she won’t need to look for another job.
She is studying Law and currently working for HMRC.
No prison time as she is heavily pregnant, the judge said its highly unlikely she will reoffend in his summing up.
She was 36 minutes over her ten hour drive.
And the card was out at the time she fell asleep.
Her mitigation in court was the quality of the services stations available along her route, she wanted to go to a particular one that had better facilities for women.
robroy:
I know that, but working 15 hour days between 9 hours off,.(not necessarily rest) in charge of 44tonnes in excess of 70 hours, along side smaller vehicles is a classic case where the health and safety aspect should be looked at as an essential, but they would rather concentrate on crap like wearing hi viz clown suits that are ott.
15 hour shifts under a 9/10 hour driving limit.
It’s clear that the problem has everything to do with ‘drivers’ being caught up in the ‘warehousing’ regime in whatever form not driving too long in a shift.
How many times do we hear that it’s ok drivers to cat nap between runs.
At least those who aren’t expected to also work as warehouse staff, while they are parked up going nowhere.
I agree, plus another thing is people putting too much emphasis on times. One of the few accidents I’ve never had is tiredness related. As soon as my eyelids start to droop I’m diving into next services for a snooze. Text the office when I go it and put phone on silent. Companies I’ve worked for have never given me grief for this. Oh actually thinking it one that shall remain nameless did and I took that as a cue to change jobs.
robroy:
Harry Monk:
robroy:
My point was that if ever there was a bloody good reason for H&S to kick in as a priority in drivers hours, it’s the amount of time we are allowed (and encouraged) to work in the nature of the work we do, and the risks involved due to tiredness.Health and Safety has nothing to do with health or safety, it’s all about mitigating and minimising claims against an employer’s insurance. As it is legal to work a 15 hour day then a company cannot be found negligent for having its drivers do so. The Government or eu could reduce road deaths by reducing drivers’ hours but this would be at the cost of also reducing profits in the road transport sector which they would never do.
I do get it Harry, but the H&S card should be played in terms of drivers hours, as it is in every bloody thing else instead of being conveniently ignored for the reasons you point out.
I was talking about hours with some non trucking friends recently. Not only were they surprised you could have as little as 9 off they were gobsmacked when I pointed out, after plucking an scenario from thin air that on a Monday you could be working 6am to 3pm for instance and so Tuesdays start time is potentially midnight. It’s ridiculous that you can start the week on day shifts and be on night shifts by mid week.
use a name:
She was 36 minutes over her ten hour drive.
And the card was out at the time she fell asleep.
Her mitigation in court was the quality of the services stations available along her route, she wanted to go to a particular one that had better facilities for women.
If it’s a bent record all bets are off there’s no way of trusting any start or finish times shown.
If a driver can’t hack around 10 hours of driving it’s the wrong job and obviously nothing to do with 15 hour shifts which, as Rob says, is the real danger combined with any length of driving time.
use a name:
She was 36 minutes over her ten hour drive.
And the card was out at the time she fell asleep.
Her mitigation in court was the quality of the services stations available along her route, she wanted to go to a particular one that had better facilities for women.
If it’s a bent record all bets are off there’s no way of trusting any start or finish times shown.
If a driver can’t hack around 10 hours of driving it’s the wrong job and obviously nothing to do with 15 hour shifts which, as Rob says, is the real danger combined with any length of driving time.
robroy:
I know that, but working 15 hour days between 9 hours off,.(not necessarily rest) in charge of 44tonnes in excess of 70 hours, along side smaller vehicles is a classic case where the health and safety aspect should be looked at as an essential, but they would rather concentrate on crap like wearing hi viz clown suits that are ott.
15 hour shifts under a 9/10 hour driving limit.
It’s clear that the problem has everything to do with ‘drivers’ being caught up in the ‘warehousing’ regime in whatever form.
How many times do we hear that it’s ok drivers to cat nap between runs.
At least those who aren’t expected to also work as warehouse staff, while they are parked up going nowhere.
eagerbeaver:
Old John:
Harry Monk:
robroy:
My point was that if ever there was a bloody good reason for H&S to kick in as a priority in drivers hours, it’s the amount of time we are allowed (and encouraged) to work in the nature of the work we do, and the risks involved due to tiredness.Health and Safety has nothing to do with health or safety, it’s all about mitigating and minimising claims against an employer’s insurance. As it is legal to work a 15 hour day then a company cannot be found negligent for having its drivers do so. The Government or eu could reduce road deaths by reducing drivers’ hours but this would be at the cost of also reducing profits in the road transport sector which they would never do.
Harry, I always think you talk a lot of sense when posting, and I respect your experience in the industry.
However, I disagree with your last point regarding a potential reduction in permitted hours of duty resulting in reduced profitability for the transport industry. In general, we all have to abide by the rules, and if, due to any changes to the hours regulations, companies cannot sweat their assets to the extent that they did previouslythen the answer is simple. Put your rates up.
It’s the same as the fuel issue. We all have to buy fuel, and when the price is not affordable at whatever level it is, put your rates up. Don’t blockade refineries or go on go slows down the motorway.
Work together and PUT THE RATES UP!!!
When will it happen? Never.
The customers know it and the politicians know it. As a consequence, we, the hauliers, large and small, get what we so richly deserve. Rogered vigorously, right up the fundament.I feel much better now!!
An excellent and civilised exchange of opinions from 3 members whom I have a lot of respect for.
This is how it should be folks
Ha ha ha ■■■■■■■ hell I want some of what your on beaver , rob a shining example to us all , he’s put you upto this hasn’t he !
I getting the vibes that you no longer love me doze. 
Carryfast:
It’s clear that the problem has everything to do with ‘drivers’ being caught up in the ‘warehousing’ regime in whatever form.
Here. We. Go. Again. 
#CarryfastsObssesionDuJour
comments on the video were spot on …the hours are to long ,and not enough places to stop…they treat the driver like a part on the truck just a machine
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
It’s clear that the problem has everything to do with ‘drivers’ being caught up in the ‘warehousing’ regime in whatever form.Here. We. Go. Again.
How else do you explain a 15 hour shift with a 9/10 hour max driving limit.
fuse:
comments on the video were spot on …the hours are to long ,and not enough places to stop…they treat the driver like a part on the truck just a machine
From about two weeks ago I started speaking to warehouse staff/ office staff in exactly the same way they spoke to me. There is a lot of shouting going on right now, especially with individuals from a certain ethnic background [emoji849]
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Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
It’s clear that the problem has everything to do with ‘drivers’ being caught up in the ‘warehousing’ regime in whatever form.Here. We. Go. Again.
How else do you explain a 15 hour shift with a 9/10 hour max driving limit.
10 hrs driving
1.5 hrs Break (2x 45 mins)
At least 0.5 hrs finding/coupling trailer, doing pre-use checks of both tractor unit + trailer, cleaning windscreens/mirrors, fixing blown bulbs, topping up washers etc, checking paperwork.
0.25 hr queuing at gatehouse/waiting for bay to be allocated/getting onto bay (for each and every delivery)
0.25 hr waiting for paperwork to be checked/signed (for each delivery)
0.5 hr dropping trailer, fuelling up, completing paperwork, parking up and sweeping/wiping unit in readiness for the next driver.
So that’s already >13 hrs (and so a reduced Rest - i.e. a “15 hour shift”) if there are any additional delays or hanging about/scratching your arse while someone at the other end of a phone sorts out a query/gatehouse droid directs you to wait for your booked slot, or even sitting in the cab for a few minutes while the warehouse bods do their stuff.