Just want to double check daily rest
If i work 12 hrs 59 mins or less i can have 11 hrs rest if i work 13 hours or more i can have 9 hrs rest even if longer rest still counts as 9 and can reduce daily rest 3 times a week if needed
Is this correct or wrong thank you
Sounds spot on to me.
that would be correct sir
usersteve:
that would be correct sir
I get confused coz 13 hrs plus 11 hrs rest is 24 hrs 14 hrs plus 9 is 23 hrs 15 hrs plus 9 hour rest is 24 hours i was told once you hit 13 hours it counts as a 15 hour day and your on reduced rest 9 hrs which can only be done 3 times a week unless you have a 3 hr break continious then 9 hrs off =12 hrs can give you an extra 15 hour day thanx
gothika:
usersteve:
that would be correct sirI get confused coz 13 hrs plus 11 hrs rest is 24 hrs 14 hrs plus 9 is 23 hrs 15 hrs plus 9 hour rest is 24 hours i was told once you hit 13 hours it counts as a 15 hour day and your on reduced rest 9 hrs which can only be done 3 times a week unless you have a 3 hr break continious then 9 hrs off =12 hrs can give you an extra 15 hour day thanx
Nope
Everything you do must fit into 24hrs
13 hrs work leaves 11 hrs rest (a full daily rest )
13 hrs 1 min leaves 10 hrs 59 min ( a reduced daily rest )
15 hrs work with a unbroken 3 hr break within the 15 hrs allows a 9 hr reduced daily rest but because you have the 3 continuous hours you have 3 + 9 = 12 as you have said.
so you could do this every working shift
nick2008:
gothika:
usersteve:
that would be correct sirI get confused coz 13 hrs plus 11 hrs rest is 24 hrs 14 hrs plus 9 is 23 hrs 15 hrs plus 9 hour rest is 24 hours i was told once you hit 13 hours it counts as a 15 hour day and your on reduced rest 9 hrs which can only be done 3 times a week unless you have a 3 hr break continious then 9 hrs off =12 hrs can give you an extra 15 hour day thanx
Nope
Everything you do must fit into 24hrs13 hrs work leaves 11 hrs rest (a full daily rest )
13 hrs 1 min leaves 10 hrs 59 min ( a reduced daily rest )
15 hrs work with a unbroken 3 hr break within the 15 hrs allows a 9 hr reduced daily rest but because you have the 3 continuous hours you have 3 + 9 = 12 as you have said.
so you could do this every working shift
This ^^^
When you go over 13 hours your on a reduced daily rest period unless you’re having a split daily rest period, and you can have 3 reduced daily rest periods between weekly rest periods not 3 a week.
For instance, if you start work on Monday after a weekly rest period you could have reduced daily rest periods on Monday Tuesday and Wednesday, have a reduced weekly rest period on Thursday then have another 3 reduced daily rest periods on Friday Saturday and Sunday.
Excluding split daily rest periods:
- A shift of up-to 13 hours followed by a rest period of 11 hours is a regular daily rest period.
- A shift of of 13 hours and 1 minute followed by a rest period of 11 or more hours is a reduced daily rest period.
(Because only the part of the rest period that fits into the 24 hour period counts towards the daily rest)
The key is the 24 hour period.
If you start at 4am and finish at 6pm but then you don’t start until 7am the next day you’ve had 13 hours rest, but you’ve still reduced as you only had 10 hours before 4am when your 24 hour period was up
gothika:
Just want to double check daily rest
If i work 12 hrs 59 mins or less i can have 11 hrs rest if i work 13 hours or more i can have 9 hrs rest even if longer rest still counts as 9 and can reduce daily rest 3 times a week if needed
Is this correct or wrong thank you
3 times between weekly rests
tachograph:
Excluding split daily rest periods:
- A shift of up-to 13 hours followed by a rest period of 11 hours is a regular daily rest period.
- A shift of of 13 hours and 1 minute followed by a rest period of 11 or more hours is a reduced daily rest period.
(Because only the part of the rest period that fits into the 24 hour period counts towards the daily rest)
This is one of the biggest Driver hour problems that newly qualified drivers seem to have at our place, resulting in loads of infringements. Maybe not enough emphasis is placed on the “24hours” in their training ? Having said that, it is not just new drivers. Even some experienced drivers who start here (that haven’t had previous jobs that might see them work a shift longer than 13 hours) often struggle with the concept of having 12 or 13 hours off from work counted as a “reduced rest”
If the shift is less than 13 hours then the next thing to consider is - how much time between this shift and the next one? - if less than 11 hours then that is also a reduced daily rest
tachograph:
nick2008:
gothika:
usersteve:
that would be correct sirI get confused coz 13 hrs plus 11 hrs rest is 24 hrs 14 hrs plus 9 is 23 hrs 15 hrs plus 9 hour rest is 24 hours i was told once you hit 13 hours it counts as a 15 hour day and your on reduced rest 9 hrs which can only be done 3 times a week unless you have a 3 hr break continious then 9 hrs off =12 hrs can give you an extra 15 hour day thanx
Nope
Everything you do must fit into 24hrs13 hrs work leaves 11 hrs rest (a full daily rest )
13 hrs 1 min leaves 10 hrs 59 min ( a reduced daily rest )
15 hrs work with a unbroken 3 hr break within the 15 hrs allows a 9 hr reduced daily rest but because you have the 3 continuous hours you have 3 + 9 = 12 as you have said.
so you could do this every working shiftThis ^^^
When you go over 13 hours your on a reduced daily rest period unless you’re having a split daily rest period, and you can have 3 reduced daily rest periods between weekly rest periods not 3 a week.
For instance, if you start work on Monday after a weekly rest period you could have reduced daily rest periods on Monday Tuesday and Wednesday, have a reduced weekly rest period on Thursday then have another 3 reduced daily rest periods on Friday Saturday and Sunday.
Excluding split daily rest periods:
- A shift of up-to 13 hours followed by a rest period of 11 hours is a regular daily rest period.
- A shift of of 13 hours and 1 minute followed by a rest period of 11 or more hours is a reduced daily rest period.
(Because only the part of the rest period that fits into the 24 hour period counts towards the daily rest)
So do reduced daily rest periods go by working week but extending your daily drive to 10 hours goes by the fixed week
Uncleskid:
So do reduced daily rest periods go by working week but extending your daily drive to 10 hours goes by the fixed week
That’s correct 
tachograph:
Uncleskid:
So do reduced daily rest periods go by working week but extending your daily drive to 10 hours goes by the fixed weekThat’s correct
Here’s an interesting scenario, Tachograph.
Beginning with a clean slate at 0800hrs, a driver drives 4.5 hours, taking him to 1230. He then takes 3 hours rest (the first period of a split rest), taking him to 1530. He then drives another 4.5 hours, taking him to 2000. He then takes a 45 minute break, taking him to 2045. He then drives another 2.25 hours, taking him to 2300. He then completes the second period of split daily rest of 9 hours, taking him to 0800 the following day.
Now, you say, “he’s driven 11.25 hours!”. But is this an infringement, or even an extended driving time?
The “daily driving time” means “total accumulated driving time between the end of one daily rest period and the beginning of the following daily rest period”. In the case of the split rest here, the daily rest period begins at 1230, and ends at 0800 on the following day.
Effectively, I’m thinking the “daily driving time” clock gets stopped at 1230, because at that point the “following daily rest period” has begun. The only constraints that remain are the need to take driving breaks, and the need to complete the daily rest within the 24 hour period from starting work, which by implication limits the amount of driving to 11.25 hours per day.
Tell me, have I missed something?
You wouldn’t be able to be on rest and working at the same time.
Also you would not be able to use the three hours as part of a daily rest until the 9 hours were completed to validate the 3 hours REST.
Up until this point it would just be a 3 hour BREAK.
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Rjan:
tachograph:
Uncleskid:
So do reduced daily rest periods go by working week but extending your daily drive to 10 hours goes by the fixed weekThat’s correct
Here’s an interesting scenario, Tachograph.
Beginning with a clean slate at 0800hrs, a driver drives 4.5 hours, taking him to 1230. He then takes 3 hours rest (the first period of a split rest), taking him to 1530. He then drives another 4.5 hours, taking him to 2000. He then takes a 45 minute break, taking him to 2045. He then drives another 2.25 hours, taking him to 2300. He then completes the second period of split daily rest of 9 hours, taking him to 0800 the following day.
No can do 10 hours max driving… actually 9 hours 59 mins to be exact to avoid an infringement!
Now, you say, “he’s driven 11.25 hours!”. But is this an infringement, or even an extended driving time?
This is most certainly an infringement! You can only extend to 10 (or 9 h 59 m!)
The “daily driving time” means “total accumulated driving time between the end of one daily rest period and the beginning of the following daily rest period”. In the case of the split rest here, the daily rest period begins at 1230, and ends at 0800 on the following day.
Effectively, I’m thinking the “daily driving time” clock gets stopped at 1230, because at that point the “following daily rest period” has begun. The only constraints that remain are the need to take driving breaks, and the need to complete the daily rest within the 24 hour period from starting work, which by implication limits the amount of driving to 11.25 hours per day.
Tell me, have I missed something?
El Deano:
You wouldn’t be able to be on rest and working at the same time.Also you would not be able to use the three hours as part of a daily rest until the 9 hours were completed to validate the 3 hours REST.
Up until this point it would just be a 3 hour BREAK.
Maybe, but then let’s assume the DVSA did not catch you during the 1.25 hour period between 2145 and 2300 (which is the only time period during which the ambiguity of the 3 hour rest period becomes relevant to the question of an infringement), and you were thus able to complete your split daily rest and “validate” the earlier 3 hour period as being the beginning of your split rest period.
And it’s no different really to how the ferry crossing exception works - the split periods of “break” only become “validated” as a daily rest once the entire daily rest is complete.
It seems to me that it is up to the driver to choose whether he wants to treat a 3-hour-or-more break as the beginning of his daily rest period - he hardly has any reason (or room) to lie, after all, because it is a substantial period of break and it’s recorded by the tacho.
The only way the 3-hour break could not be treated as the beginning of a split daily rest, and therefore the only way an infringement could later arise, would be if the driver didn’t take the second 9-hour period of daily rest, which would be a free-standing infringement anyway (because 9 hours is always the minimum the driver must take, whether it be as part of a split rest, or taken on its own as a reduced daily rest).
The fact that, in this scheme, he ‘interrupts’ his daily rest period after it has begun, to complete another 6.75 hours of work (hehe) and taking another 45 min break during that work (so that at no time during the 6.75 hours of further work/driving does he accrue more than 4.5 hours of driving without a break), is what he’s apparently entitled to do, because the 9/10 hour driving limit only applies between the end of one daily/weekly rest period and the beginning of the following one.
See above.
Also it wouldn’t be the START of the daily rest, it would be PART of a daliy rest.
And, Why would you want you want to?
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I would think that the EU court would say that the intention of the regulation is that the daily driving period is within the daily working period.
The daily working period ends when you start the 9 hour part of the daily rest period, this has been decided by a court case (Case C-394/92 Michielsen and Geybels Transport Service) and is, with the exception of when you’re changing vehicles, legally the only time you can withdraw the driver card/chart from the tachograph without approval.
I think this is one of those situations where the wording of the regulations could be clearer, but a court would say the intention of the regulation is clear.
tachograph:
I would think that the EU court would say that the intention of the regulation is that the daily driving period is within the daily working period.The daily working period ends when you start the 9 hour part of the daily rest period, this has been decided by a court case (Case C-394/92 Michielsen and Geybels Transport Service) and is, with the exception of when you’re changing vehicles, legally the only time you can withdraw the driver card/chart from the tachograph without approval.
I think this is one of those situations where the wording of the regulations could be clearer, but a court would say the intention of the regulation is clear.
Very interesting. It certainly makes more sense in the context of a tachograph record, that the intention is that the records should cover the entire working period until the beginning of the final period of rest.
It’s not entirely clear that the intention of the regulations is that a driver can never exceed 10 hours driving (and only twice a week) however, because the purpose of the regulations is to control fatigue, and the driving period has to be punctuated by a significant 3 hour break in the middle of the driving period, and the driver must still take the 45 minute breaks every 4.5 hours.
That is, if you can lawfully do 9 hours driving punctuated only by a 45 minute break every day of the week, and twice a week can extend that 10 hours by taking an additional 45 minutes break, and when the legislation permits working days to be as long as 15 hours, why would it be against the intention of the legislation to permit someone to do a tenth hour of driving every day of the week, if he first takes 3 hours rest after the first 9 hours were over?
Nor is it clear that the concept of the working/driving period and the daily rest period were not intended to overlap in the regulations - since the concept of the split daily rest is specifically catered for, and clearly the first part of the split daily rest is understood (and intended to be understood) to begin before the last part of the working day is over.
For the record though, I have no intention of seeing in court whether this loophole exists. 
Rjan:
It’s not entirely clear that the intention of the regulations is that a driver can never exceed 10 hours driving (and only twice a week)
EH !!
eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ … 32006R0561
Article 4
(k) ‘daily driving time’ means the total accumulated driving time between the end of one daily rest period and the beginning of the following daily rest period or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest period;Article 6
- The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
However, the daily driving time may be extended to at most 10 hours not more than twice during the week.