I work for said company and have not seen this memo. But if it is right I don’t do near 60hrs a week and never will… I control the steering wheel and know the way home.!!!
Did you mean Burners of Blowhamski ■■
Threads like this that make me appreciate my job.from the minute I get in the yard till when I leave I’m paid and if at the end off the month I’m not on a full hour they round it up for me 
all thoose half hour fifteen minutes mount up over a year.
You wouldn’t mind so much but “Burners of Blowham” are one of if not the most successful & profitable transport companies in the country.
Are you sure they’re not saying that you need to put the tacho on poa & break more so that on paper they’re not paying you for work over 60 hours a week? Otherwise you’ll just be working for free?
The chap that said he did 81 hours for day rate, what does your hourly work out at because if it’s below minimum wage, that’s illegal surely?
When I employed drivers, I paid their breaks as it was one of the things that annoyed me when it was the other way around.
Winseer:
I’m surprised this has not occured earlier.There are already too many firms that have already got their drivers working over 60 hours a week, despite being told by people like me that "to do it week in, week out is bent" - but I’m ‘just a git who can be safely ignored’ seems to be the general consensus.
but when you say over 60 hours per week, are you meaning over 60 rtd / wtd hours or over 60 paid hours?
stevieboy308:
Winseer:
I’m surprised this has not occured earlier.There are already too many firms that have already got their drivers working over 60 hours a week, despite being told by people like me that "to do it week in, week out is bent" - but I’m ‘just a git who can be safely ignored’ seems to be the general consensus.
but when you say over 60 hours per week, are you meaning over 60 rtd / wtd hours or over 60 paid hours?
Surely it don’t matter wheter it’s WTD/POA/Other Work…whatever, you are still AT WORK/ON DUTY therefore you want paying for it, if you are on £x per hour.
Different if you’re on mega-salary £xxxx per annum, then it’s in your interests to spend as little time as possible at work. If your on per annum & you ‘live at work’ this will in effect put you on less per hour. GO HOME EARLY AS POSSIBLE!!!
Bosses love drivers that’ll do the work of 1.5 or even 2 men…it saves them £1,000’s if drivers are salaried!!!
Daz1970:
Surely it don’t matter wheter it’s WTD/POA/Other Work…whatever, you are still AT WORK/ON DUTY therefore you want paying for it, if you are on £x per hour.
Different if you’re on mega-salary £xxxx per annum, then it’s in your interests to spend as little time as possible at work. If your on per annum & you ‘live at work’ this will in effect put you on less per hour. GO HOME EARLY AS POSSIBLE!!!
Bosses love drivers that’ll do the work of 1.5 or even 2 men…it saves them £1,000’s if drivers are salaried!!!
Well said mate and very true on all counts, but it’s amazing how many drivers are too thick to see this and play right into employer’s hands.
The firm I mentioned before in my last post keep their drivers on their toes by saying they top up their salaries by “Percentage of the trucks earnings” some of their drivers actually believe this 
even though the firm NEVER disclose the earnings so that the driver has no way of working out this, and their wages are virtually the same every week 
, apart from this incentive bonuses were made illegal in the 80s, due to the fact they compromised road safety, this and the drivers doing unpaid hours make a very happy employer.
robroy:
Daz1970:
Surely it don’t matter wheter it’s WTD/POA/Other Work…whatever, you are still AT WORK/ON DUTY therefore you want paying for it, if you are on £x per hour.
Different if you’re on mega-salary £xxxx per annum, then it’s in your interests to spend as little time as possible at work. If your on per annum & you ‘live at work’ this will in effect put you on less per hour. GO HOME EARLY AS POSSIBLE!!!
Bosses love drivers that’ll do the work of 1.5 or even 2 men…it saves them £1,000’s if drivers are salaried!!!Well said mate and very true on all counts, but it’s amazing how many drivers are too thick to see this and play right into employer’s hands.
The firm I mentioned before in my last post keep their drivers on their toes by saying they top up their salaries by “Percentage of the trucks earnings” some of their drivers actually believe this
screwdrivers are TOO thick, 
DIGI CARD IS BOSS 
Claretmatt, just do three fifteens and a thirteen Monday to Thursday run in on Friday morning and wash off and go to the PUB! 
happy days say you’ll have your wages in the truckers arms!
If Ive missed something Im sorry, but all theyve said is that they wont pay anyone over 60hrs because its, in their words, an offence to work over that.
Therefore, they don`t want you to work over 60hrs.
That would be acceptable to me!
The poor planners will be the ones with the headache, having to implement this decree from higher up. Just do 60. Rack `em up by Thursday/Friday morning. Go home, so as not to commit an “offence”. 
Daz1970:
stevieboy308:
Winseer:
I’m surprised this has not occured earlier.There are already too many firms that have already got their drivers working over 60 hours a week, despite being told by people like me that "to do it week in, week out is bent" - but I’m ‘just a git who can be safely ignored’ seems to be the general consensus.
but when you say over 60 hours per week, are you meaning over 60 rtd / wtd hours or over 60 paid hours?
Surely it don’t matter wheter it’s WTD/POA/Other Work…whatever, you are still AT WORK/ON DUTY therefore you want paying for it, if you are on £x per hour.
Different if you’re on mega-salary £xxxx per annum, then it’s in your interests to spend as little time as possible at work. If your on per annum & you ‘live at work’ this will in effect put you on less per hour. GO HOME EARLY AS POSSIBLE!!!
Bosses love drivers that’ll do the work of 1.5 or even 2 men…it saves them £1,000’s if drivers are salaried!!!
all i’m meaning in what you’ve quoted is, winseer is saying you can’t legally work over 60 hours week in week out. when people talk about how many hours they do at work, i’d say the vast majority will quote timesheet / paid hours and not, unless specifically talking about them - rtd /wtd hours. so when people say they do 65 hours per week, it’s perfectly plausible that it can be legal. i’m just asking winseer to what he was referring to.
what i think is happening here is with the letter, is if you put down 70 hours on your timesheet and of those 70 hours 61 are count for rtd / wtd then they are going to take back that 1 hour the following week. put down 70 and of those only 46 count towards rtd / wtd then there’s no issue and you get and keep your 70 hours pay.
now of course if you’re at work you want paying for it, but whether you like it or not, the rules say you can only work 60 rtd / wtd hours a week.
maybe they’re doing it to save a bit of money by nicking a bit back off the drivers, personally i think that’ll be be down the bottom end of the reason for this list as chances are it’ll only be a few hours here and there. and even the thick ones will soon learn to stop before 60 once they’ve lost a few hours!
maybe they’re doing it to get people rightly or wrongly to use poa or break more, so as to be more productive for the same amount of rtd / wtd hours
maybe it’s arse covering, doing their bit on keeping drivers legal, so when the ■■■■ hits the fan they can’t be accused of encouraging drivers to go over by paying them.
Funny how they mention ‘‘not including breaks’’ but dont mention poa?
Did daft arse ady no post something similar last week that stobarts where bringing this in aswell?
merc0447:
Funny how they mention ‘‘not including breaks’’ but dont mention poa?Did daft arse ady no post something similar last week that stobarts where bringing this in aswell?
yeah no matter what they actually mean, it’s poorly written and needs clarification
Silver_Surfer:
You wouldn’t mind so much but “Burners of Blowham” are one of if not the most successful & profitable transport companies in the country.Are you sure they’re not saying that you need to put the tacho on poa & break more so that on paper they’re not paying you for work over 60 hours a week? Otherwise you’ll just be working for free?
The chap that said he did 81 hours for day rate, what does your hourly work out at because if it’s below minimum wage, that’s illegal surely?
When I employed drivers, I paid their breaks as it was one of the things that annoyed me when it was the other way around.
No its not below minimum wage, not including tax free expenses and sustinance payment’s, it still worked out at £8.10ish an hour, not what I want to be doing, one of my highest total hrs to date, although about 20+hrs of it is POA waiting for work at the start of shift or waiting for companies to open, but I’m still on duty…
merc0447:
Funny how they mention ‘‘not including breaks’’ but dont mention poa?Did daft arse ady no post something similar last week that stobarts where bringing this in aswell?
,no they said nothing at all about not paying you ,just if you couldn’t manage to keep you’re working hours below 48 hrs then he’d manage them for you,poa,poa,poa,how he intends to do that who knows,maybe that’s why he put me doing chilled work for day,7 hrs break,poa ,cracked it.
Anyway just remember this forum has a policy of don’t attack the poster attack the post,be carefull you don’t end up on premodit as then you’d have to write the ■■■■ I just have not what I’d really like to say to you 
I will put this in simple terms.
The employment law states that you get paid for the hours you work. You start at 6am and finish at 6pm you get paid for 12hours minus your breaks. If you use poa your company still has to pay you for that as you are still working but put it on break for say 4 hours of that shift to keep your working hours down then they could deduct that from your pay. You have to play the game and know how too. A lot of companies tell u to put it on break at drops to get your tacho breaks out of the way that’s fine if it helps you just so long as you still get fed and watered some place. The point though is you get paid for the hours you work from start to finish no less.
To be fair to burners, it’s probly a paper work issue rather than them trying to put one over on the drivers at least I’d very much hope so.
Frazer smith:
I will put this in simple terms.The employment law states that you get paid for the hours you work. You start at 6am and finish at 6pm you get paid for 12hours minus your breaks. If you use poa your company still has to pay you for that as you are still working but put it on break for say 4 hours of that shift to keep your working hours down then they could deduct that from your pay. You have to play the game and know how too. A lot of companies tell u to put it on break at drops to get your tacho breaks out of the way that’s fine if it helps you just so long as you still get fed and watered some place. The point though is you get paid for the hours you work from start to finish no less.
- But you don’t. You’ll be told a headline hourly rate of say, £10ph, but when you factor in working 84 hour weeks for £480 gross and £100 night out money, you are actually working for less than £7 per hour. You’re not even getting the tenner if you only get paid for 48 hours, because the night out money is outside the tax regime.
It’s easy to hide unpaid hours like “unpaid POA that looks like you ARE being paid for it” behind a low overall rate, some pay outside of tax, and of course being SALARIED.
As agency, I’m free to do a one-off working week of say, 84 hours mitigated down to 60 using POA. I’d damned well expect to get paid over a grand for that week though, because a lot of those hours would be at night, or across the weekend, thereby permitting me to invoice for even more than the usual £10ph base… Being fully “paid for it” would have all those working excess hours at least taking home the big bucks (rather than a mere ordinary wage) as it were… There is no obligation upon any firm to pay for all hours worked - not even to pay minimum wages, if you find yourself laid up for hours on end on POA… The firm is only obliged to pay you and others what is in your individual contract, so they need not even pay you what the guy standing next to you is on… The easiest cop-out for not being paid all hours at work is to be SALARIED again…
More than one week of excessive hours like 84+ is a complete no-no as far as I’m concerned, but oddly as an agency driver - I’ve never been asked to do ‘nights out’ by ANY agency, BECAUSE I’d end up being paid for every hour I’m “at work” rather than just “on duty” as it were.
I believe your job of work starts when you start your car to go in, and ends when you walk back in your front door again. 
Being paid “by the hour” protects you from a lot of abuse - believe me!
Update
Many drivers have been in to see Mr Staker and many more have called him, and he’s back-peddling like crazy. He even ducked out of the office this afternoon ust so he didn’t have to speak to any more drivers
Not sure about Burners of Boham but a few companies do not pay Breaks or POA!!!
Needless to say the 4 hours sat in a RDC Waiting room in this scenario would be recorded as O/Work