Jump jockey

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
21

ROG:

there are at least two drivers in the vehicle to do the driving

So does that mean that in the OP case the third driver who is going from truck to truck cannot take a break whilst the vehicle is in motion :question:

Of course he can, the regulations allow a break to be taken in a moving vehicle. You don’t have to be working to multi-manning regs for a second man to take his break in a moving vehicle. Think of when a driver runs out of driving time, but not working time, and is collected in another truck. He can record the journey back to base as rest.

Not sure the relevance of this quote in asking that question?

there are at least two drivers in the vehicle to do the driving

22

delboytwo:

Coffeeholic:
is indeed out of date as we are not talking about AETR regs

are you saying that the aetr regs are out of date cos as far as i know you can still do 8 hours rest on double manning on aetr regs there is a rummer about them been brought in line with the EU regs but not as yet

No, where have I said the AETR regs are out of date? This question is not about AETR regs, I assume if it was the OP would have said so in which case we can only assume he is asking about the EU Driver’s Hours Regs.

ROG posted also assuming EU regs and what he posted is out of date for those regulations.

23

Coffeeholic:

ROG:

there are at least two drivers in the vehicle to do the driving

So does that mean that in the OP case the third driver who is going from truck to truck cannot take a break whilst the vehicle is in motion :question:

Of course he can, the regulations allow a break to be taken in a moving vehicle. You don’t have to be working to multi-manning regs for a second man to take his break in a moving vehicle. Think of when a driver runs out of driving time, but not working time, and is collected in another truck. He can record the journey back to base as rest.

Thanks - for whatever silly reason, I was thinking that a break could not be, but don’t ask me why !!!

24

ROG:
Thanks - for whatever silly reason, I was thinking that a break could not be, but don’t ask me why !!!

I’ll tell you why, because you did your usual thing of complicating the issue and started mixing single and multi-manning regulations. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

25

Coffeeholic:
ROG posted also assuming EU regs and what he posted is out of date for those regulations.

if you look at my post you will see why Rog posted that he made an mistake by pasting a quote from page 22 instead of 17

that’s why i have said aetr Rog as never intensely said it, it was a mistake

26

Coffeeholic:

ROG:
Thanks - for whatever silly reason, I was thinking that a break could not be, but don’t ask me why !!!

I’ll tell you why, because you did your usual thing of complicating the issue and started mixing single and multi-manning regulations. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

I thought you just said that the breaks when vehicle is moving were the same for both?

27

ROG:

Coffeeholic:

ROG:
Thanks - for whatever silly reason, I was thinking that a break could not be, but don’t ask me why !!!

I’ll tell you why, because you did your usual thing of complicating the issue and started mixing single and multi-manning regulations. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

I thought you just said that the breaks when vehicle is moving were the same for both?

■■■■, you spotted that. I admit it I was trying to be sneaky and confuse you. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

I think the real reason you cocked it up was you read the OP and then went straight to the book and posted all about multi-manning without properly reading the rest of the thread, which if you had you would have seen that two or three people had mentioned multi-manning did not apply in this case. Once you set off down the multi-manning road the confusion snowballed.

28

delboytwo:

Coffeeholic:
ROG posted also assuming EU regs and what he posted is out of date for those regulations.

if you look at my post you will see why Rog posted that he made an mistake by pasting a quote from page 22 instead of 17

that’s why i have said aetr Rog as never intensely said it, it was a mistake

ROG posted an answer to an EU regs question and that answer was out of date, doesn’t matter he copied it from the wrong bit it is still false information, and he obviously didn’t read what he copied before posting it, or if he did he didn’t know it was incorrect.

29

Coffeeholic:

delboytwo:

Coffeeholic:
ROG posted also assuming EU regs and what he posted is out of date for those regulations.

if you look at my post you will see why Rog posted that he made an mistake by pasting a quote from page 22 instead of 17

that’s why i have said aetr Rog as never intensely said it, it was a mistake

ROG posted an answer to an EU regs question and that answer was out of date, doesn’t matter he copied it from the wrong bit it is still false information, and he obviously didn’t read what he copied before posting it, or if he did he didn’t know it was incorrect.

i know what you are saying, but you could of said that is was from the wrong part of the book , instead you jump in and say its out of date you suppose to know you stuff so why not show were Rog had gone wrong rather then knock the guy down

you to quick to knock us mere mortals down, sometimes you are just in the forum for you own personal attacks on other members

people make mistakes, the way we learn is by telling use were we have gone wrong, not knock us down, you have done it to me often enough

sometime your comment can be so insensitive , is life the boring for you that all you can do is criticize us, we are asking for help why not give it,

30

delboytwo:
i know what you are saying, but you could of said that is was from the wrong part of the book , instead you jump in and say its out of date you suppose to know you stuff so why not show were Rog had gone wrong rather then knock the guy down

How did I know it was from the wrong part of the book. I never thought for one minute he would post from AETR rules when answering a question about EU Rules. He was posting about multi-manning on a thread about EU rules and the information he posted in that context was out of date.

delboytwo:
you to quick to knock us mere mortals down,

Only when all other means have failed. For too long now ROG has held this belief that the UK has separate rules from the rest of Europe and that gv262 is a set of regulations rather than a guide book. Several members, Tachograph, Diesel Dave and myself among others, have pointed out the error in this but he still persists. It gets to a point all you can do is realise a member who doesn’t listen and keeps peddling rubbish is obviously an idiot and treat him accordingly.

delboytwo:
sometimes you are just in the forum for you own personal attacks on other members

Only when all other means have failed. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

delboytwo:
people make mistakes, the way we learn is by telling use were we have gone wrong, not knock us down, you have done it to me often enough

Fair point Del and I am more than happy to point where you and others have gone wrong, I rarely post an answer without a link to or quote from the relevant legislation to back my answer up, but when having done so the thread goes on for several pages because the person refuses to see or read what is in front of them it gets to the point where you think [zb] it.

delboytwo:
sometime your comment can be so insensitive

Sometimes it is only at that point the person realises their mistake. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

delboytwo:
is life the boring for you that all you can do is criticize us, we are asking for help why not give it,

Who says my life is boring, life rocks at the moment and I don’t have any time to be bored as I have lots going on.

Del, You can rightly accuse me of many things on these forums but I don’t think not helping when people ask is one of them, I have been answering tacho questions on these forums in their various guises for more than 10 years and am more than happy to do so. But when you realise people are not even reading your answers, if they were they wouldn’t post pages of non relevant quotes for instance, then you kind of get frustrated. (see my avatar) :wink:

If I haven’t helped people than why does ROG say most of what he knows about the tacho rules he learnt from me through my answers on this forum. How has your knowledge improved so much over the last couple of years, to the point were you answer plenty of questions correctly, apart from the odd occasion when you maybe haven’t taken your medication, (that’s a joke before you get all sensitive) :wink: if not from these boards including answers I have given to questions in both the public forum and those you have asked me by PM. I don’t think I have ever not answered one of your PM questions, how does that fit with me not helping. Still I know what to do next time eh? :unamused:

31

OK,

not on meds mate, never touch them best cure i no is to chuck my toys out the pram as i did in my last post :wink:

32

delboytwo:
OK,

not on meds mate, never touch them best cure i no is to chuck my toys out the pram as i did in my last post :wink:

And another thing, you’ve seen what I tell people to tell their TM’s when they have come out with some special bullcrap? Well, why should drivers or members on here be treated any different? :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

33

Coffeeholic:

delboytwo:
OK,

not on meds mate, never touch them best cure i no is to chuck my toys out the pram as i did in my last post :wink:

And another thing, you’ve seen what I tell people to tell their TM’s when they have come out with some special bullcrap? Well, why should drivers or members on here be treated any different? :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

i well tell you a story about a TM no names though, he you the law backwards and i mean he could quote word for word but as we all know there are some out there that are and will always be puppets to the masters i have never met one yet that will stand up to the master, unless the TM is the master

34

Sorry guys but i wonder if the jump jockey would be breaking the Working Time Directive rules. He cant claim periods of availability while in a moving vehicle and if he then drives the vehicle then when does he have a proper break? Im under the impression that on a break, you must be free to leave the vehicle if you wish! Cant do that if it’s rolling down trap 1 of the motorway!!!

35

There is a difference between being able to quote the law word for word and actually understanding what you are quoting. I have known people who could quote the regs as if they were reading them, I can’t do that, but didn’t actually understand what they were saying so still got things wrong.

Changing the subject a little. One of my colleagues, who shall remain nameless but I’ll call him jimboy124 for the purpose of this post, :wink: has just done the first part of his CPC training and he has told me some of the things the trainer came out with. All I can say is I am really looking forward to my training day, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if I get thrown out because there is going to be arguments, err I mean discussions. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

36

stevieboy143:
Sorry guys but i wonder if the jump jockey would be breaking the Working Time Directive rules. He cant claim periods of availability while in a moving vehicle

He can, in fact the tacho mode defaults to POA for the second man in a moving vehicle. VOSA assume the first 45 minutes of that POA to be break in multi manned vehicles for that very reason.

stevieboy143:
and if he then drives the vehicle then when does he have a proper break? Im under the impression that on a break, you must be free to leave the vehicle if you wish! Cant do that if it’s rolling down trap 1 of the motorway!!!

You are under the wrong impression, you are getting your break and rest mixed up, you don’t have to be free to do anything on a break, it’s rest you have to be free to dispose of your time as you wish. A break is simply a period when no driving or other work is undertaken and the time is used exclusively for recuperation. Sitting in the jump seat while the vehicle is being driven by somebody else meets those criteria.

37

Coffeeholic:
There is a difference between being able to quote the law word for word and actually understanding what you are quoting. I have known people who could quote the regs as if they were reading them, I can’t do that, but didn’t actually understand what they were saying so still got things wrong.

Changing the subject a little. One of my colleagues, who shall remain nameless but I’ll call him jimboy124 for the purpose of this post, :wink: has just done the first part of his CPC training and he has told me some of the things the trainer came out with. All I can say is I am really looking forward to my training day, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if I get thrown out because there is going to be arguments, err I mean discussions. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

no mate he new them I’ve heard him arguing with the boss about some thing the boss as said can be done but you no it can’t

about trainer for the cpc i looked it to the possibility on becoming one, and ask the people that a looking after it and there said just being able to driver the truck could get approved to train , i don’t know if that’s true now this was 18 months ago

38

delboytwo:
about trainer for the cpc i looked it to the possibility on becoming one, and ask the people that a looking after it and there said just being able to driver the truck could get approved to train , i don’t know if that’s true now this was 18 months ago

I might look into it, seems like an easy gig as it appears you don’t actually have to know much in the way of facts and can get away with just repeating several of the well known myths. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

39

Coffeeholic:
He can, in fact the tacho mode defaults to POA for the second man in a moving vehicle. VOSA assume the first 45 minutes of that POA to be break in multi manned vehicles for that very reason.

would the driver that moves between trucks after right on the back of the chart or printout before he put the chart or card back in or could there do it at the end of the shift, reason i ask is i heard that if you have do something that need to be explained, it would have to be there in case of stop :exclamation:

40

delboytwo:

Coffeeholic:
He can, in fact the tacho mode defaults to POA for the second man in a moving vehicle. VOSA assume the first 45 minutes of that POA to be break in multi manned vehicles for that very reason.

would the driver that moves between trucks after right on the back of the chart or printout before he put the chart or card back in or could there do it at the end of the shift, reason i ask is i heard that if you have do something that need to be explained, it would have to be there in case of stop :exclamation:

He would probably be best to make a note of the fact he took his break in a moving vehicle and was therefore unable to record a break period by means of the mode switch. I guess in the event of this being done under digi tacho he could leave his card out while on break and then use the manual entry facility to record the break when he inserted his card to drive, not sure how that would go down if they were stopped by VOSA while his card wasn’t in.