Joystick attendants..?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

dieseldog999:
Where do you get all this false info from? One of my school friends who I still keep in touch with worked for a low budget airline (retired now) and I can assure you he earned a lot more than you say even when he first started.He also earned more than 52k when he started.
Do you really believe an airline pilot with all the skill and training only earns the same as a lorry driver when he first starts? Cloud cuckoo land.

When did your friend start flying if he’s retired now?
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
anyone else thinking this?
youtube.com/watch?v=gc2p5VgPkso
[/quote]
I doubt those chaps were on anything like £52k, but whatever they were on they deserved every cent and more. :frowning:

Maybe it was one of these 2, I’m sure they’re on more than £52k.

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23

the maoster:

jakethesnake:

Conor:
Nothing stopping you spending £120,000 to train as a commercial airline pilot. Downside is when you start you won’t be on much more than you can earn driving lorries. Most can expect to earn about £27,000 to £29,000 a year, eventually climbing to a basic salary before allowances of £56,000 to £66,000 as a captain with more than a decade’s service and four to eight years in command.

If you’re lucky and manage to get one of the very rare jobs with British Airways you start on £52k. You don’t reach over £100k until you’ve 20+ years service. In the meantime you’ve £120k of training to pay.

Supply of newly qualified pilots with low amounts of flying hours massively outstrips demand.

Where do you get all this false info from? One of my school friends who I still keep in touch with worked for a low budget airline (retired now) and I can assure you he earned a lot more than you say even when he first started.He also earned more than 52k when he started.
Do you really believe an airline pilot with all the skill and training only earns the same as a lorry driver when he first starts? Cloud cuckoo land.

A quick google search reveals that the starting salary for a Ryanair pilot is between €25000 and €30000 p/a. Were there budget airlines when your mate started?

I can only assume his school friend started his flying career many years ago, considering Jake says he’s recently retired after 50 years in the job, so I assume his friend is of a similar age, so even if he started late in life I doubt many airlines would take a new pilot much over 40, maybe 45.

As for initial pay, I used to work for this company, well the race team side, and I can assure you I was on more than the new pilots.

24

muckles:

idrive:

muckles:

idrive:
Keep hearing over the past few years that modern planes can fly themselves and mostly do.
Average wage of £100k up to £200k.
Offered an 11% payrise and it’s still not enough.

Where do you get your average wage information from?

Jeremy Vine!!!

It also featured a pilots wife complaining that they cannot survive on 100k as they have kids

I’ve often listened to callers to Jeremy Vine and thought, I know enough about the subjec tot know you aren’t who you say you are and you are telling porkies.
I could call up tell them I’m the wife of a pilot, would they check it out in the few minutes before I go on air?

Your deep voice might give it away [emoji14]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

25

jakethesnake:

Conor:
Nothing stopping you spending £120,000 to train as a commercial airline pilot. Downside is when you start you won’t be on much more than you can earn driving lorries. Most can expect to earn about £27,000 to £29,000 a year, eventually climbing to a basic salary before allowances of £56,000 to £66,000 as a captain with more than a decade’s service and four to eight years in command.

If you’re lucky and manage to get one of the very rare jobs with British Airways you start on £52k. You don’t reach over £100k until you’ve 20+ years service. In the meantime you’ve £120k of training to pay.

Supply of newly qualified pilots with low amounts of flying hours massively outstrips demand.

Where do you get all this false info from? One of my school friends who I still keep in touch with worked for a low budget airline (retired now) and I can assure you he earned a lot more than you say even when he first started.He also earned more than 52k when he started.
Do you really believe an airline pilot with all the skill and training only earns the same as a lorry driver when he first starts? Cloud cuckoo land.

Hung up the keys earlier this year to do exactly this and Conor is (pretty much) spot on. It varies massively, some can be as low as £22k (Eastern Airways), easyjet at around £40k, I think BA are starting at £59k now, with Virgin Atlantic starting at £77k. As for the job, flying is only 20% of it, the rest is judgement and decision making. For the big players, the salary at the top of your game is big, but it’s an incredibly volatile industry. You need checking every 6 months, if you don’t pass the test, you’re out until you can. The medical is stringent and easily lost, and as with driving, you’re only as good as your last delivery, the aviation industry is small so it’ll follow you. Companies go bust all the time, see BMI and Monarch, they then start on the base salary at another airline, maybe retain Captain status, maybe not. Maybe they get to fly from the same airport, maybe they need to then move to wherever the new job is. The company wants close your base? Guess you’re moving wherever the new base is. If things go wrong, you can’t just stop, you have to deal with it and get it on the ground. There are plenty of easier jobs for a lot more money and a lot less risk, work in investments and you’re laughing.

As for me, I wouldn’t mind starting on that money, it’s not forever and I could live on it. Many have had to do so and will continue to do so. The career is not as out of reach as many believe, it can be tough but you could get all the training start to finish for about £80k. Learn the theory by distance learning while driving, then get the license and ratings (also while driving), you could do all the flying for around £50k. You might need to outlay for the initial type rating (specific aircraft training) which could be up to £30k (most of that is actually flying the plane to see if you can land it in real life). The theory itself is not actually all that difficult, there’s just a vast amount of it, and contrary to popular belief, a day over 18 isn’t too old to start! Many students with the school I am with remortgaged, to then opt to do it full time. Not from high paying jobs either. It’s nowhere near as exclusive as it has a reputation for, it just takes a lot of hard work and dedication. If anyone is considering it, continue doing so. Is it worth it? So I’m told.

26

I’d want bloody good money for piloting a plane, not just because of the money it cost’s to get in, but for when things go ■■■■ up and I’m the man on the spot. Remember the jet that conked out in the volcanic ash cloud that the pilot bump started? I can only imagine what some of you lot would have done, faced with that when there’s so much drama because the jeffing bluetooth or a/c’s not working. :smiley:

27

peterm:
I’d want bloody good money for piloting a plane, not just because of the money it cost’s to get in, but for when things go ■■■■ up and I’m the man on the spot. Remember the jet that conked out in the volcanic ash cloud that the pilot bump started? I can only imagine what some of you lot would have done, faced with that when there’s so much drama because the jeffing bluetooth or a/c’s not working. :smiley:

I doubt many of us could have informed the passengers of situation they found themselves in such a calm way.

“Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress.”

British stiff upper lip and understatment at its best. :laughing:

28

jakethesnake:
Where do you get all this false info from?

BALPA - British Airline Pilots Association.

blog.aviationjobsearch.com/comm … ary-guide/

This greatly depends on the airline and the type of aircraft flown. Salaries tend to increase with each year of service with a company, says BALPA so even if you are initially paid a low wage, the situation may well improve after several years of employment.

Salaries vary according to the airline a pilot is employed with, the type of aircraft being flown and experience gained. The starting salary for a newly qualified first officer working for a small operation may be around £22,000 (or $35,000).

Starting salaries for those in larger companies are higher at around £24,000 pa to £28,000 pa ($38,000 to $45,000).

Salaries for more experienced commercial pilots could range from £28,000 ($45,000) to £44,000 ($70,000) in a first officer role. The starting salary for a captain with a medium-sized airline may range from £54,000 ($87,000) to £75,000 ($120,000), while those with the major operators could earn from £97,000 ($156,000) to over £140,000 ($225,000).

Do you really believe an airline pilot with all the skill and training only earns the same as a lorry driver when he first starts?

Absolutely. Because they have hardly any flying hours they’re the co-pilot, the equivalent of a second man in haulage. They’re given virtually no responsibility until they’ve got more hours and further training in. You don’t give a newly qualified pilot with hardly any time in the air the first seat putting him in charge of £10millions of aircraft and responsible for the lives of 100s of passengers.

How happy do you think the passengers sat in an Airbus A380 are going to be when they hear:

“My name is Bob, I’m your captain for the flight. I recently qualified as a commercial pilot and have 20hrs flying experience.”

29

muckles:

jakethesnake:

Conor:
Nothing stopping you spending £120,000 to train as a commercial airline pilot. Downside is when you start you won’t be on much more than you can earn driving lorries. Most can expect to earn about £27,000 to £29,000 a year, eventually climbing to a basic salary before allowances of £56,000 to £66,000 as a captain with more than a decade’s service and four to eight years in command.

If you’re lucky and manage to get one of the very rare jobs with British Airways you start on £52k. You don’t reach over £100k until you’ve 20+ years service. In the meantime you’ve £120k of training to pay.

Supply of newly qualified pilots with low amounts of flying hours massively outstrips demand.

Where do you get all this false info from? One of my school friends who I still keep in touch with worked for a low budget airline (retired now) and I can assure you he earned a lot more than you say even when he first started.He also earned more than 52k when he started.
Do you really believe an airline pilot with all the skill and training only earns the same as a lorry driver when he first starts? Cloud cuckoo land.

When did your friend start flying if he’s retired now?

He was a helicopter pilot in the Royal Navy before coming a Commercial pilot. Have not spoken with him for a while as he has been ill but I will find out more next time I speak.
Unless he was lying (which I very much doubt) his wages were always very high.

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muckles:

idrive:
Keep hearing over the past few years that modern planes can fly themselves and mostly do.
Average wage of £100k up to £200k.
Offered an 11% payrise and it’s still not enough.

Where do you get your average wage information from?
A look around the internet, it seems the average UK airline pilot wage is will around £80k, BA is around £88k apparently, up to around £170k, but how many will be earning that?
and I think they’re after 11% over 3 years, so 3.6% per year.

From what I gather most airline pilots fund much of their training themselves, I’ve seen figures for that being £40,000 to £100,000, before they can get into a paid job flying and that’s unlikely to be with BA or any major airline. The airlines they start with won’t be paying anywhere near that, some will make a truck driver (who might have paid £2k or £3k for their licence) seem well paid and they still have that debt to pay back.

But of course we live in a society where everybody seems to want to drag others pay down instead of being happy they’re fighting to get a good deal. I suppose that’s what decades of right wing media drip feeding anti-worker headlines does to a nation.

The last part of that quote sums it up, decades of rightwing media drip feeding anti-worker headlines, well said sir!
Generally we all earn too little, the vast majority of money goes to shareholders, we have people in this country who are working full time and still have to claim benefits, and where does that money come from? Our taxes! In effect we all sponsor shareholders and billionaires who don’t pay a living wage, BA pilots took a wage cut years ago when BA were in the ■■■■, now they are making money hand over fist, I hope the pilots get the pay rise they deserve, and perhaps if drivers could get toghether, we could have a decent wage and not be expected to do nearly two weeks work to get one weeks pay.

32

jakethesnake:

muckles:

jakethesnake:

Conor:
Nothing stopping you spending £120,000 to train as a commercial airline pilot. Downside is when you start you won’t be on much more than you can earn driving lorries. Most can expect to earn about £27,000 to £29,000 a year, eventually climbing to a basic salary before allowances of £56,000 to £66,000 as a captain with more than a decade’s service and four to eight years in command.

If you’re lucky and manage to get one of the very rare jobs with British Airways you start on £52k. You don’t reach over £100k until you’ve 20+ years service. In the meantime you’ve £120k of training to pay.

Supply of newly qualified pilots with low amounts of flying hours massively outstrips demand.

Where do you get all this false info from? One of my school friends who I still keep in touch with worked for a low budget airline (retired now) and I can assure you he earned a lot more than you say even when he first started.He also earned more than 52k when he started.
Do you really believe an airline pilot with all the skill and training only earns the same as a lorry driver when he first starts? Cloud cuckoo land.

When did your friend start flying if he’s retired now?

He was a helicopter pilot in the Royal Navy before coming a Commercial pilot. Have not spoken with him for a while as he has been ill but I will find out more next time I speak.
Unless he was lying (which I very much doubt) his wages were always very high.

Maybe having loads of flying hours helped him get on to a better airline than those going in self funded with minimum hours, the brother of a friend of mine went straight from flying helicopters in the RAF to Virgin, this was some 25+ years ago though.

33

jakethesnake:
He was a helicopter pilot in the Royal Navy before coming a Commercial pilot. Have not spoken with him for a while as he has been ill but I will find out more next time I speak.
Unless he was lying (which I very much doubt) his wages were always very high.

So his experience is not the same then. His entry point will be higher up the ladder because he’s already been qualified for a number of years and got hundreds if not thousands of flying hours both as co-pilot and aircraft captain whilst in the RN. I doubt he is lying, it is just the case that when he went into flying commercially he wasn’t starting as a newly qualified pilot.

34

There was a pilot on here a while back , used to put up pictures of his wife! I think he drove for Tesco when it was a bit quiet on the Jumbos. Could ask Prince Andrew he is a pilot as well. I think that planes could go autonomous before road vehicles do.

35

Conor:

jakethesnake:
He was a helicopter pilot in the Royal Navy before coming a Commercial pilot. Have not spoken with him for a while as he has been ill but I will find out more next time I speak.
Unless he was lying (which I very much doubt) his wages were always very high.

So his experience is not the same then. His entry point will be higher up the ladder because he’s already been qualified for a number of years and got hundreds if not thousands of flying hours both as co-pilot and aircraft captain whilst in the RN. I doubt he is lying, it is just the case that when he went into flying commercially he wasn’t starting as a newly qualified pilot.

That’s fair enough. TBH I don’t know much about it but I did find it difficult to believe some of these pilots are on such low wages considering the amount of training they go through never mind the high cost of their training.

36

Yes muckles possibly about the same time although without asking him can’t be certain.
I do know he had periods where he struggled to find work but was always well paid when working. He mostly flew out of Birmingham.

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jakethesnake:
Yes muckles possibly about the same time although without asking him can’t be certain.
I do know he had periods where he struggled to find work but was always well paid when working. He mostly flew out of Birmingham.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6
i also fly out of birmingham…as quick as i can unless the M6 is gridlocked. :open_mouth:

38

alamcculloch:
There was a pilot on here a while back , used to put up pictures of his wife! I think he drove for Tesco when it was a bit quiet on the Jumbos. Could ask Prince Andrew he is a pilot as well. I think that planes could go autonomous before road vehicles do.

I think you might mean Freight dog?

Aircraft certainly have the potential for autonomy, but it wouldn’t be for a while and not something I’m concerned about. As I said before, flying is only 20% of the job. Cruise and landing phases can be automated, but no such system exists for takeoffs as yet, which seems a little bizarre. All the systems that are in place have their pitfalls and none are totally reliable. GPS approaches are all the rage now, but you can’t get an autoland out of them just yet, even with the best GBAS system we have. Besides, even if we could there’s still 80% of the job that needs replacing, a computer doesn’t do very well for thinking for itself, and it completely goes out the window when things have gone down the pan, and that’s when the designers will regret replacing the pilot with a computer. It’s a job that needs creativity and 1 solution that works in 90% of occurrences may not work for the other 10%, that’s when you need the human. There’s certainly talk of single pilot operations with a monitoring human in a ground station, can’t see it happening myself as they simply won’t have the situational awareness or required interaction to do it properly. On paper they could certainly be flown by 1 person, absolutely no question. The point of the 2 man crew though is so the one not physically flying monitors the one who is, they discuss the way forward and any discrepancies can be detected and rectified.