Dennisthemenace:
BUT; you can say that easily, cos you know the possibilities well. But JF have no idea, where to park up. Their companies won’t pay for parking and the maximum they can make monthly is 1200 Euros. So, they will take a risk and pull on the hard shoulder for a break and I can not blame them.
Well said fella. I work for a “JF” firm (but not for EE rates!) and while many of my colleagues love driving in the UK their only real complaint is the lack of parking space.
It’s easy to criticise these EE guys as some of them would struggle to drive a pig down an alley, but UK isn’t a truck-friendly country compared to Germany, Sweden or even France. I’m glad I don’t have to do regular trips over there, not because I don’t miss the place but due to the fact that overnighting is often a headache.
Of course it’s not just a British problem: drive along the A9 around Beziers after 10 at night and you’ll see plenty of trucks parked up on the slip roads, with the occasional Brit among them.
Agree in the main that the problem is a lack of parking but yesterday on the M25 saw two EE vans on the slip road to the services at Cobham surely two minutes to the parking area wouldn’t have been to much and then a Spanish lorry under the bridge just after the services surely he couldn’t have missed the services, have parked on the hard shoulder on the A86 round Paris altho only for a45 min break would rather take the bo##ocking from a gendarme at the side of the road rather than the 135 euro fine from their ministry. As for paying for parking never pay except around London as our vehicles are registered with TFL due to LEZ so never use services around London simple
newmercman:
I thought you were selling up and buying a narrow boat Make your mind up
Yes, I am, in three years time, as I said. There will be plenty of other things to do between now and then.
newmercman:
There is a lot of ■■■■■■■■ being written on this thread and so far none of it has come from mickyblue
Unless there has been an unforseen situation, like an accident, there is absolutely no reason for anyone to park on the hard shoulder
If you are in unfamiliar territory then you should not be waiting until the 15min warning bleeper goes off before looking for somewhere to park
That is bad planning, the drivers hours laws set a LIMIT to how many hours you can drive without a break/rest, not a TARGET that must be achieved at all costs
It isn’t rocket science, a bit of planning before you start the final segment of your allowed hours and you can find somewhere safe to park
If, for example, you are leaving Peterborough with 3hrs left on your card then you ain’t going to make Ashford Services, so you start looking around Maidstone and spend the final 45mins of your shift looking for somewhere to park, if you’ve hit traffic then it might be Dartford, or even call it a day with an hour and a half left at Birchanger Green if it’s approaching rush hour
You can say that Johnny Foreigner won’t know how busy the M25 gets, but that’s ■■■■■■■■, we all knew the reputation of the big cities in Europe and wouldn’t, for example, join the Tangenziale around Milan at 4pm on 9hrs 45mins, we would’ve stopped on 8hrs 30mins at Carisio or Santhia or used a bit more time and parked in the services a bit further down the road
For the benefit of the hard of thinking…
Foreign drivers take breaks on the hard shoulder when held up by RTAs because they face draconian fines in other countries by enforcement authorities who do not care about printouts or excuses but have simply been ordered to extract as much money as possible from the drivers of overseas-registered trucks in order to bail out their floundering economies.
If VOSA’s policy towards British drivers changed from understanding of occasional infringements, to the imposition of fines amounting to several months wages for exceeding legal limits by even a few minutes then you can bet the farm that every British truck driver would do exactly the same as the Flip-flops and dive onto the hard shoulder when his tacho read 4:29.
I say we need massively better parking facilities for trucks, Mickyblue says that punishment is the cure. You can take a man out of the Police, but you cannot take the Police out of a man.
I think your full of ■■■■ Harry Monk. I have not stated once in this thread that they should be dealt with. I just wish you grow some knackers and wear boxers.
Why are you so disturbed by the fact I used to work for the police? You always mention it in your posts. Very sad life you lead. So please get a grip and stop with the snide attacks you keep doing because there boring.
mickyblue:
I think your full of [zb] Harry Monk. I have not stated once in this thread that they should be dealt with. I just wish you grow some knackers and wear boxers.
Why are you so disturbed by the fact I used to work for the police? You always mention it in your posts. Very sad life you lead. So please get a grip and stop with the snide attacks you keep doing because there boring.
You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. The reason that foreign-registered trucks stop for a 45-minute break on the hard shoulder is that the drivers are petrified about receiving huge fines several weeks down the line. Your answer is to fine them.
Where in this thread I have stated that they should be fined?
OK, I’ll accept that you hadn’t said that and I was wrong to suggest you had.
Back to the original point, the reason so many eastern European drivers pull up for a 45 minute break on the hard shoulder of the M25 is that they face enormous fines elsewhere if they don’t. If I faced the same fines then I would do the same.
mickyblue:
I think your full of [zb] Harry Monk. I have not stated once in this thread that they should be dealt with. I just wish you grow some knackers and wear boxers.
Why are you so disturbed by the fact I used to work for the police? You always mention it in your posts. Very sad life you lead. So please get a grip and stop with the snide attacks you keep doing because there boring.
You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. The reason that foreign-registered trucks stop for a 45-minute break on the hard shoulder is that the drivers are petrified about receiving huge fines several weeks down the line. Your answer is to fine them.
I personally don’t agree.
Regardless of nationality and considering the implications of trucks using the hard shoulder as a parking place the choice should actually be between the risk of a dangerous driving charge or move.IE jail for parking on the hard shoulder or find somewhere suitable to park.It’s their choice.Although it’s difficult to see how a tacho infringement for going over the 4.5 hours or 9/10 hours daily driving time limit,to find a safe parking place with a note made on the record explaining that,can justifiably result in a huge fine here or in a different country.However ‘if’ foreign drivers are being criminalised for having to find somewhere safe to park here after running out of driving time,assuming unforseen circumstances like motorway closures for accidents and the resulting tailbacks etc,then that’s obviously just a matter of having the bottle to plead not guilty and not paying the fine.
roadrunner:
I would imagine East European drivers carry very little cash if any at all, they all seem to self cater, they all have huge endurance fuel tanks so don’t buy fuel. So its down to red tape and bureaucracy to extract any fines if the driver speaks poor english, so i guess its not financially viable for VOSA in terms of time vs money extraction , when there are many more financially viable UK drivers to fine. Or “Line of least resistance” . you might say
That doesn’t make what their being allowed to do right though does it. No wonder the British hauliers can’t compete in the “free market” that is Europe. They should be forced (towed if they have to be) to a legal place to park, then they should be immobilised until the firm pays up the fine and towing fee.
A couple of days with his wagon earning jack would soon see them paying up.
It really does [zb] me off that it isn’t a level playing field.
“They should be forced”, to pay twenty, thirty pounds for parking?? In Europe, the parking is free, or about six Euros/night. In Britain, the friggin greedy [zb] can not get enough, that’s the truth. Everyone should park on the roadside and let the MSA managements crying for the lost money. I’m with the foreigners in this case.
I never said they should be forced to pay for parking, they should be forced to park somewhere legal I said, please read it again.
There are industrial estates, lay bys and services, the fact is there are that many parked on hard shoulders now days on motorways all over the country, day in day out, it’s impossible that they all got caught out in traffic, they are all forigne motors, they are just doing it because they know nothing will be said or done to them.
Me no speaka English
BUT; you can say that easily, cos you know the possibilities well. But JF have no idea, where to park up. Their companies won’t pay for parking and the maximum they can make monthly is 1200 Euros. So, they will take a risk and pull on the hard shoulder for a break and I can not blame them.
If JF’s decide to use motorway hard shoulders to park up because ‘they have no idea where else to go’ then maybe the threat of a jail sentence just might give them the idea that they’re in the wrong job.
mickyblue:
I think your full of [zb] Harry Monk. I have not stated once in this thread that they should be dealt with. I just wish you grow some knackers and wear boxers.
Why are you so disturbed by the fact I used to work for the police? You always mention it in your posts. Very sad life you lead. So please get a grip and stop with the snide attacks you keep doing because there boring.
You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. The reason that foreign-registered trucks stop for a 45-minute break on the hard shoulder is that the drivers are petrified about receiving huge fines several weeks down the line. Your answer is to fine them.
I personally don’t agree.
Regardless of nationality and considering the implications of trucks using the hard shoulder as a parking place the choice should actually be between the risk of a dangerous driving charge or move.IE jail for parking on the hard shoulder or find somewhere suitable to park.It’s their choice.Although it’s difficult to see how a tacho infringement for going over the 4.5 hours or 9/10 hours daily driving time limit,to find a safe parking place with a note made on the record explaining that,can justifiably result in a huge fine here or in a different country.However ‘if’ foreign drivers are being criminalised for having to find somewhere safe to park here after running out of driving time,assuming unforseen circumstances like motorway closures for accidents and the resulting tailbacks etc,then that’s obviously just a matter of having the bottle to plead not guilty and not paying the fine.
I hear what you’re saying, but whether you like it or not, the law is the law, the driver is scared of getting an infringement which could possibly cost him a few quid in a couple of week’s time, that’s understandable, especially as there will no doubt be a language barrier preventing a reasonable explanation.
However in order to prevent all that, the driver is breaking a UK law by taking a break on the hard shoulder of a British Motorway.
How can that be justified
The fact that their bosses will not pay for parking is no defence, so what, lots of UK firms don’t pay for it, yet those drivers don’t abandon their lorries on the hard shoulder.
Maybe if there was a prosecution for parking on the hard shoulder, the foreign companies would start paying for parking, so that their drivers were not putting themselves and others in danger by parking in a place as dangerous as the hard shoulder of a Motorway
There are a hundred reasons why they do it, but there are three very good reasons why they should not.
1, it is against the law
2, see above
3, see above
mickyblue:
I think your full of [zb] Harry Monk. I have not stated once in this thread that they should be dealt with. I just wish you grow some knackers and wear boxers.
Why are you so disturbed by the fact I used to work for the police? You always mention it in your posts. Very sad life you lead. So please get a grip and stop with the snide attacks you keep doing because there boring.
You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. The reason that foreign-registered trucks stop for a 45-minute break on the hard shoulder is that the drivers are petrified about receiving huge fines several weeks down the line. Your answer is to fine them.
I personally don’t agree.
Regardless of nationality and considering the implications of trucks using the hard shoulder as a parking place the choice should actually be between the risk of a dangerous driving charge or move.IE jail for parking on the hard shoulder or find somewhere suitable to park.It’s their choice.Although it’s difficult to see how a tacho infringement for going over the 4.5 hours or 9/10 hours daily driving time limit,to find a safe parking place with a note made on the record explaining that,can justifiably result in a huge fine here or in a different country.However ‘if’ foreign drivers are being criminalised for having to find somewhere safe to park here after running out of driving time,assuming unforseen circumstances like motorway closures for accidents and the resulting tailbacks etc,then that’s obviously just a matter of having the bottle to plead not guilty and not paying the fine.
I hear what you’re saying, but whether you like it or not, the law is the law, the driver is scared of getting an infringement which could possibly cost him a few quid in a couple of week’s time, that’s understandable, especially as there will no doubt be a language barrier preventing a reasonable explanation.
However in order to prevent all that, the driver is breaking a UK law by taking a break on the hard shoulder of a British Motorway.
How can that be justified
The fact that their bosses will not pay for parking is no defence, so what, lots of UK firms don’t pay for it, yet those drivers don’t abandon their lorries on the hard shoulder.
Maybe if there was a prosecution for parking on the hard shoulder, the foreign companies would start paying for parking, so that their drivers were not putting themselves and others in danger by parking in a place as dangerous as the hard shoulder of a Motorway
There are a hundred reasons why they do it, but there are three very good reasons why they should not.
1, it is against the law
2, see above
3, see above
That’s the point the law in this case being the issue of just running up against the issue of an hours infringement as opposed to the much more dangerous issue of using a motorway hard shoulder as a parking place.As I’ve said in the former case it’s a defencible hours infringement as opposed to an indefencible dangerous driving charge.
In which case the whole thing could be sorted by the law actually doing their job for once in applying the law with common sense by just making an example of any or all of the culprits so word gets around.Problem solved.
some coments.
cooking in the cab or near.basicly internation lorry drivers have spare money,and not small.they cooking because why pay 10-20 pound perd day at services if can make food much betters and 3-5 time more cheaper.
about 1500 litres diesel-why not carry if this allowed.
about parking at hard shoulder.yes some foreigh drivers not planning good and not left time for unforresen situation.in this case EU must make some rulles about infrigement.1 British VOSA must give penalty just for break and daily driving ,working time infrigiment what was in Uk,Spain for Spain .because another country transport inspection can t investigate why drivers make infrigement.EU must accept one standart of penalty ticket.because now if Vosa give penalty and all this paper ,another Vsa lads check sistems and don t give penalty.but if Germany or Spain tr inspector will see UK penalty tickets ,they can not believed and ignore.so for one infrigiments internation drivers can get 10 -20 tickets
Orys
why you don t post here why Poland transport inspeciton one from worse,stupid and crazy in the world for foreigh drivers.any drivers now who cross Polland now who you inspection crazy and give not big penalty but for anythink as possible.some Polish drivers as well not very good people with very low calture
Carryfast:
That’s the point the law in this case being the issue of just running up against the issue of an hours infringement as opposed to the much more dangerous issue of using a motorway hard shoulder as a parking place.As I’ve said in the former case it’s a defencible hours infringement as opposed to an indefencible dangerous driving charge.
In which case the whole thing could be sorted by the law actually doing their job for once in applying the law with common sense by just making an example of any or all of the culprits so word gets around.Problem solved.
Total agreement
Andrejs:
some coments.
cooking in the cab or near.basicly internation lorry drivers have spare money,and not small.they cooking because why pay 10-20 pound perd day at services if can make food much betters and 3-5 time more cheaper.
about 1500 litres diesel-why not carry if this allowed.
Yes all off this is absolutly acceptible. I have allways cooked in the Cab, not every night, but allways have a canteen off grub and a stove or microwave in which to cook it.
Andrejs:
about parking at hard shoulder.yes some foreigh drivers not planning good and not left time for unforresen situation.in this case EU must make some rulles about infrigement.1 British VOSA must give penalty just for break and daily driving ,working time infrigiment what was in Uk,Spain for Spain .because another country transport inspection can t investigate why drivers make infrigement.EU must accept one standart of penalty ticket.because now if Vosa give penalty and all this paper ,another Vsa lads check sistems and don t give penalty.but if Germany or Spain tr inspector will see UK penalty tickets ,they can not believed and ignore.so for one infrigiments internation drivers can get 10 -20 tickets
That is about the most sensible comment on this subject, either fines levied only in the country in which they occur, or a common rate at which fines are levied accross the EU, for what when all said and done are EU rules infringments. And an agreement across EU states that when an infringement as been dealt with by a member state then it is spent and action cant be taken in respect of that event again. If this is going on then I would have thought that is a human rights issue.
Just to box off the last six pages, the whole situation can be easily solved by providing adequate suitable overnight parking facilities for both UK and foreign trampers, by means of the politicians using the human rights card.
This can only be done by the politicians ignoring and standing up to the anti truck fraternity, and the nimbys that want us to just miraculously disappear with our “thundering juggernauts” after we have provided their weeks shopping at Tescos.
The problem is that the 2 aforementioned groups are voters, and this is certainly not a vote winning policy, so consequently no politician has the balls to actively address this problem as it would be political-career suicide on their part, so it is just conveniently ignored by them, safe in the knowledge that we will just continue to get on with the whole crap situation.
Carryfast:
Regardless of nationality and considering the implications of trucks using the hard shoulder as a parking place the choice should actually be between the risk of a dangerous driving charge or move.
That could be fun “Sir, you have a choice. Either you ignore fact that you are very tired and over your driving limit and continue driving, or, if you refrain from driving, we will charge you with dangerous driving” There is some Carryfast logic in it
then that’s obviously just a matter of having the bottle to plead not guilty and not paying the fine.
Yeah, because everyone has plenty of time to park up and fight in courts at the other end of Europe
Andrejs:
Orys
why you don t post here why Poland transport inspeciton one from worse,stupid and crazy in the world for foreigh drivers.any drivers now who cross Polland now who you inspection crazy and give not big penalty but for anythink as possible.some Polish drivers as well not very good people with very low calture
Because this thread is not about Polish transport inspection? Altough I agree with you, they are terrible, they only look for a chance to fine someone, and that applies to most of Polish uniformed services and does not only touches foreign drivers believe me
As for “some Polish drivers as well are not very good people with very low culture” you can replace Polish with any other nation and it will still be true.
mickyblue:
I am also shocked to see that people feel it’s ok to park on a Motorway hard shoulder for a tacho break when deep down they know it’s not safe at all.
That depends. I can’t see what risk can cause for example when someone stopps at the very beginning of the hard shoulder right at the top of entry slip road. Police does that, incident support vehicles do that, gritters do that… I do that sometimes when I need to answer mobile and there is nowhere to stop. I am yet to see a truck parked right on the hard shoulders next to the passing traffic. Usually they are parked in places where HS is wider, when there is kind of “secondary lay by” after the hard shoulder, in some service laybys etc. Illegal, definitely, but IMHO much safer than being parked in shallow lay-by just next to the busy dual carriage road. For sure if I am so tired that I am falling on my nose, it is definitely safer for me to stop for the kip in such place than to keep going?
mickyblue wrote:I am also shocked to see that people feel it’s ok to park on a Motorway hard shoulder for a tacho break when deep down they know it’s not safe at all.
Orys wrote:
That depends. I can’t see what risk can cause for example when someone stopps at the very beginning of the hard shoulder right at the top of entry slip road. Police does that, incident support vehicles do that, gritters do that… I do that sometimes when I need to answer mobile and there is nowhere to stop. I am yet to see a truck parked right on the hard shoulders next to the passing traffic. Usually they are parked in places where HS is wider, when there is kind of “secondary lay by” after the hard shoulder, in some service laybys etc. Illegal, definitely, but IMHO much safer than being parked in shallow lay-by just next to the busy dual carriage road. For sure if I am so tired that I am falling on my nose, it is definitely safer for me to stop for the kip in such place than to keep going?
We are talking about stopping on a Motorway not an A road.
Carryfast:
Regardless of nationality and considering the implications of trucks using the hard shoulder as a parking place the choice should actually be between the risk of a dangerous driving charge or move.
That could be fun “Sir, you have a choice. Either you ignore fact that you are very tired and over your driving limit and continue driving, or, if you refrain from driving, we will charge you with dangerous driving” There is some Carryfast logic in it
Which part of you can’t stop on a motorway because you’ve run out of driving time don’t you understand.Having said that the question then is would the fact that,regardless of wether the driver is out of time or not,the driver also feels too knackered to drive then fit the description of an ‘emergency’ for the purposes of the use of the hard shoulder.Maybe I could understand that in the slavic logic.It might also explain those stopped trucks in the middle of what remains of the Russian road network causing havoc and forcing others onto the soft verges through those Russian roadworks in euromat’s post.While hopefully that logic would also have worked if a Polish truck had run into the back of my parked wagon in lane 1 of the M25 on some of those late mornings in bad traffic when I was too knackered to even bother with putting it on the hard shoulder before stopping for a rest.
Make your mind up 
