“Showing us how desperate they are” - would surely spell a long-overdue end to “Any Five from Seven” for good, wouldn’t it?
In Driver Utopia - We pick the hours we want to work, and don’t get told by agencies “Do this shift, or the phone will stop ringing”, especially when you’re supposed to be self-employed and your own bloody boss and all…!
DCPCFML:
Winseer:
I’ve got a directly-employed job - thanks.
Wait. Someone actually employed you?
If a firm is sensible, they’ll not do the “Bad Business” option of giving a job to a “6 points OK” driver, likely to smash up their kit - because they happened to have a personality clash with an argumentative clean licence holder who happens to not like being brazenly lied to all the time…
Any employer who wants to become a bit of a Tycoon - will start by not throwing away the firm’s hard cash on petty backbiting behaviour… Thus, for me to get a job anywhere, all I have to do is not have my argumentative/whistleblowing reputation preceed me there - that’s all. 
Last year was bad for me most of all - because those who got rid of me - didn’t even bother to tell me I’d been got rid of until 10 days had passed with all my shifts getting booked, and then cancelled at the last minute… Again - “Bad Business” to treat your staff on your own books in that manner. How unprofessional of those who don’t like me “hiding behind company procedure” to keep me at arm’s length, probably costing the firm a few quid in mis-appropriated security, if nothing else…
There will be a reckoning - once all this lockdown nonsense is over. 
Once I knew I was a gonner, it took me less than a day to get this job, slipping a bit from my previous record of being laid off with severance/no notice, and walking into a new job 96 minutes later… 
Winseer:
“Showing us how desperate they are” - would surely spell a long-overdue end to “Any Five from Seven” for good, wouldn’t it?In Driver Utopia - We pick the hours we want to work, and don’t get told by agencies “Do this shift, or the phone will stop ringing”, especially when you’re supposed to be self-employed and your own bloody boss and all…!
You don’t get, do you? In the real world, companies want (need) the flexibility to cover those seven days, with people who only want to work 5 days… in the real world, there are people happy to do that. Great. You ate not. Fine. Stop crying, and get a 4on -4off job. Companies are falling over to offer those shifts…
Kids
Listen up big company’s don’t pay decent wages, they’ll treat you like a subhuman. You won’t have a life, work evrey start time there is an get 1 weekend off in 13
Call me jaded
the nodding donkey:
Winseer:
“Showing us how desperate they are” - would surely spell a long-overdue end to “Any Five from Seven” for good, wouldn’t it?In Driver Utopia - We pick the hours we want to work, and don’t get told by agencies “Do this shift, or the phone will stop ringing”, especially when you’re supposed to be self-employed and your own bloody boss and all…!
You don’t get, do you? In the real world, companies want (need) the flexibility to cover those seven days, with people who only want to work 5 days… in the real world, there are people happy to do that. Great. You ate not. Fine. Stop crying, and get a 4on -4off job. Companies are falling over to offer those shifts…
No, you are misunderstanding that there was a time on agencies where you got paid true top dollar for putting up with that crap.
Where have the premium agency contracts gone - the ones actually touted even in their lastest text messages and website ads?? There’s not much point putting “Earn £1200 per week as an agency HGV driver” if you’re basing that weekly total on working six days for ten hours per day @ £20ph - when the £20ph is the Bank Holiday/Sunday NIGHT rate FFS… There simply are not 7 Sundays and bank holidays in a bloody week, don’t forget!
It is the Monday-Friday PAYE DAY rate - which I use as a benchmark so I can calculate how much my earnings potential would be, should I decide to shift there, and put up with the “Any five from seven” crap… Does the money actually measure up to their advert implications?
NO - it doesn’t! Not if they LIE in their ads all the time about availablilty of the premium shifts, which happen to be the ones I chase… 
Nowadays, you are expected to put up with the same crap - but for lowering rather than rising pay and conditions!!
I won’t be going back to agency unless and until I get to pick the shifts I do OR the hourly rate is so high, I’d just go to work with a tinfoil hat on, and not speak to anyone unless I’ve got some paperwork in my hand to get processed…
Directly-employed full time jobs - are drying up, with the overly expensive payroll (as the firm sees it) - being slimmed down by voluntary redundancy programmes… Then when in the future business picks up again - you then attempt to re-employ those same staff on inferior contracts to the ones they took redundancy from years before…
I have a rate for working “Any five from seven” - which is £22.50ph PAYE Daytime rate. (Sunday-Saturday - one day is the same as any other to me…)
If I sign up with an agency that offers me my choice pick of shifts only, with no pressure to do shifts I’m not interested in (about start times, rather than which days here…) then I’d accept a much lower hourly rate for that, as I have done with the job I’ve currently got, where I only work the shifts I want - ever.
Supply and Demand - cuts both ways. Offering only “Any Five from Seven” is basically the outfit’s way of saying that you lose all your rights once you sign up - all to get a mediocre hourly rate that is barely above the rate the full timer’s get, very often…
Two weeks ago, I was offered an agency contract described as “Start times across all hours”. (I’m signed up with 11 agencies at this point, not been sacked or resigned from any of them…)
So I said "Your ads say £16ph PAYE Monday-Friday Night Rate which I’m happy with… So I’d like every Tuesday-Thursday Start times between 18:30 and 20:00 hrs please…
“Ahh”… Says agency rep… “We’ve only got 23:30 starts on nights, or 02:00 starts on Days.” The Night Rate was described as start times from 18:00 onwards, the Day Rate as any start time from 02:00 onwards.
“Start times across all hours” - turned out to be nothing more than a cynical manipulation then to get people to do god-awful shifts - for what? Those headline hourly rates which the firm clearly resents having to pay, so will ensure the shift is as uncomfortable as possible to all who apply?
It is very easy to sign up with an agency - just to get pestered to do shifts you stated at the start you “were not interested in”.
It is almost impossible however - to get sacked from an agency because you won’t do those shifts. The phone stops ringing - that’s all. You are expected to resign of your own accord, should you require a P45 to pass to your next employer… A practice that will eventually be jumped on by HMRC I’m sure, as having 300+ drivers on your books, and only giving regular work to one in ten of them - is wide open to financial fraud, in the past most often via umbrella schemes, salary sacrifice, and IR35…
Winseer:
YAWN
I love how you have an inflated sense of self-importance, believing that as a newbie to an agency, ie. at the bottom of the pecking order, you can dictate the terms of engagement to them and they’ll just roll over and give you whatever you want! 
You truly are clueless. You speak here about agencies advertising stuff they don’t actually have, like it’s some new thing. This is what agencies do and has been that way since the dawn of time.
From your past posts and your recent ones I’ve totally sussed you out. You don’t want to do more than 3 shifts a week and so you need all 3 shifts to be 15 hours. You sign up with an agency and get night work where nearly every job is about 10-12 hours. 10-12 hours is no good for you so you dragggggggggggg the arse of it to get 15 hours and then find yourself hauled in the office for taking 15 hours to go from Kent to RM NNDC at Northampton and back, thus missing the deadlines and causing all the mail to be late. You get dumped by the agency after complaints from the client and move onto the next one, rinse and repeat.
I semi-regularly do RM and know that the times they give you are generous. Unless there is an hour long hold-up somewhere it’s virtually impossible to be late if you drive normally and don’t try to drag it out to get 15 hours in, yet you get to site when everyone’s gone home and the barrier’s come down on the gate 
. That just shows how useless you are. Even a first-timer flip-flop without a working satnav would be quicker than you.
DCPCFML:
Winseer:
YAWNThere you go again. Totally unable to say anything constructive that might be of interest/use to other users on here, and just moaning at me for being me for the sake of it…
“Newbie to an agency” indeed. 11 years I’ve been on some of their books…
Pecking Order? - They only have to live up to their promises/written word/adverts to be what we would all like agencies to be… Market makers for the workforce, rather than con artists trying to screw as much as possible out of both sides, when in truth - neither side should ever need an agency, a view held by most on here as I understand it…I don’t expect anything - once I’ve established that an outfit consists of liars and crooks in positions of authority over one. I simply price myself out of the market, which I am obliged to participate in at a bigger-picture level.
I love how you have an inflated sense of self-importance, believing that as a newbie to an agency, ie. at the bottom of the pecking order, you can dictate the terms of engagement to them and they’ll just roll over and give you whatever you want!
You truly are clueless. You speak here about agencies advertising stuff they don’t actually have, like it’s some new thing. This is what agencies do and has been that way since the dawn of time.
As for the other stuff, I could argue that in what way did my “behaviour” ever cause your lifestyle to crumble, pay to fall, or open-ended bullying at work to commence? What I earn, and how I earn it - is surely no one else’s business bar the top boss of whomever happens to be employing me, and myself doing the work in the manner I deem best to both get the job done, and be safe whilst at it.
“Dragging out jobs” is something I used to see among the previous generation of drivers, it’s true - and I’ve been encouraged by unions to participate too…
Thing is, these days - “sitting at park pale near 3 crutches A2 for four hours, because one is not due back from London until 01:30 and it’s only 11pm now” - is as much a thing of the past as the location itself, long since re-built over like other major junctions have been totally swallowed by landscape alternations over the years. There’s trackers in trucks now. You cannot get away with that crap any longer. SO when you accuse me of hanging out jobs, I must assume you are someone who used to know me in person, and speaking of days long gone. If I take 11 hours to do a 12 hour job squeezed into 10 hours, because I won’t overtake on roundabouts, undertake, pull off bays before I’ve got a green light, and other bad acts that can kill people, but often shave a few minutes off the running time for a job - that’s MY business, and anyone who is entirely unharmed by me doing the job that way - who then proceeds to do as much as they can to ruin my life by getting me busted out of that job - as far as I’m concerned is as beneath contempt as any turd I might happen to accidentally tread upon…From your past posts and your recent ones I’ve totally sussed you out. You don’t want to do more than 3 shifts a week and so you need all 3 shifts to be 15 hours. You sign up with an agency and get night work where nearly every job is about 10-12 hours. 10-12 hours is no good for you so you dragggggggggggg the arse of it to get 15 hours and then find yourself hauled in the office for taking 15 hours to go from Kent to RM NNDC at Northampton and back, thus missing the deadlines and causing all the mail to be late. You get dumped by the agency after complaints from the client and move onto the next one, rinse and repeat.
I’ve not been to RM for 3 years. I was politically assassinated there, after being outed at work by people I’d done nothing against at that. places. It was good I left full time there a long time ago, as the life and limb attrition rate has been quite horrific since I left. A driver falsly accused of ■■■■, now dead. Another driver falsly accused of molestation - now dead. An agency driver doing my old job - crushed to death on the A2 who wouldn’t have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, had I not been got rid of by that point, creating what turned out to be a deadly vacancy for them…
All I’ve ever tried to do is earn a crust, and get the job done. Being tripped up by all this backbiting behaviour all the time, was more of a disappointment to me, rather than a surprise. I was the one heckling at union meetings for “throwing member’s money away”, but all I was ever met with was derision for going against the popular (fooled by management schemes) workforce.I semi-regularly do RM and know that the times they give you are generous. Unless there is an hour long hold-up somewhere it’s virtually impossible to be late if you drive normally and don’t try to drag it out to get 15 hours in, yet you get to site when everyone’s gone home and the barrier’s come down on the gate
My running times at RM were not the problem - it was being asked by managers to do collections off the 318 like “Hamper Collections” which were not factored in that a 45 minute drive further (Folkstone) from the following destination (Coventry) to go to - meant that the running time had been extended by 90 minutes - not 45… I would then take a legally required 45 minute break on my way up to Coventry, and get carpeted for it… The only way all these other geniuses who never seem to get into trouble for same - is if they go over 4.5hrs non-stop OR take a break whilst they are loading on the back, which is also illegal of course…
Most of my lateness was about being held up at places like Medway Mail Center: You’d be told “Operate a shut-door policy” by one manager, and then the manager at the depot would say “If you shut out 1st class mail - that’s willful delay of the mail, and I’ll make sure you never work here again”. So what to do? Obey one manager, or the other who has compromised the entire job, because they couldn’t be arsed to do THEIR job properly, in making sure the mail full load was lined up ready to be loaded as and when I went on the bay at my correct time to load… I even got kicked off the bay one day for going on 15 minutes ahead of my window time, to let another agency on who then took ages to load, meaning I then missed my own window time when I hadn’t originally…
It is often said a RM that “Things work like clockwork - until some manager f–ks it up” - at which point they’ll argue it was the driver’s fault for some unrelated reason, like “He was late because he tried to go on the bay early, causing the other driver to be late”. Was it F…k!!! 
All in all, I’m just sick to death of the Lies, deceit, and life-sabotage these scumbag Center Left types represent to me. I didn’t even know it was a sin to be a small-‘c’ conservative - until I got outed at work for being one on-line… One’s private life and politics - shouldn’t be an issue at work, any more than one’s skin colour, ■■■■■■■■■, or birth… I’m socially liberal, so can get on with anyone, at the end of the day… There was never any need to bust me up financially because I somehow made them look bad, and they took collective revenge…
Winseer:
I’ve not been to RM for 3 years. I was politically assassinated
Any 5 from 7 is quite ■■■■, but so is 4 on 4 off.
the nodding donkey:
Winseer:
“Showing us how desperate they are” - would surely spell a long-overdue end to “Any Five from Seven” for good, wouldn’t it?In Driver Utopia - We pick the hours we want to work, and don’t get told by agencies “Do this shift, or the phone will stop ringing”, especially when you’re supposed to be self-employed and your own bloody boss and all…!
You don’t get, do you? In the real world, companies want (need) the flexibility to cover those seven days, with people who only want to work 5 days… in the real world, there are people happy to do that. Great. You ate not. Fine. Stop crying, and get a 4on -4off job. Companies are falling over to offer those shifts…
I wonder how many potential good jobs Winseer has instantly dismissed simply because the advert stated “any 5 from 7”?
I think he fails to grasp that often “any 5 from 7” in an advert simply means a set 5 days a week e.g Tues - Sat, Sun - Thurs, Thurs - Mon etc and not that your work days will be changing every single week.
Anyone who is not supporting Winseer on this thread, clearly is not a lorry driver, doing this job for a living.
We need to all remember, this forum is overloaded with various agency bosses, haulage companies bosses, getting more desperate by the day trying to keep us drivers, to make sure we don’t start raising our heads above the parapet.
Driver is not a human being, has to be kept down, treated like s.h.i.t and never allow himself to think he could be treated as another human being, with respect.
I’ve seen it all numerous times, while being employed in this industry.
anon84679660:
Anyone who is not supporting Winseer on this thread, clearly is not a lorry driver, doing this job for a living.
We need to all remember, this forum is overloaded with various agency bosses, haulage companies bosses, getting more desperate by the day trying to keep us drivers, to make sure we don’t start raising our heads above the parapet.
Driver is not a human being, has to be kept down, treated like s.h.i.t and never allow himself to think he could be treated as another human being, with respect.
I’ve seen it all numerous times, while being employed in this industry.
Whilst I tend to agree with you on SOME of those points…If you read and participated in other threads instead of (by your own admission) only having the time to participate in Brexit related threads (aka boring the arse off everyone with your incessant bad loser ramblings) you would know that Winseer lurrrrves playing the victim.
Everybody Winseer comes up against in his career (possibly his life) has the same opinion of him evidently, but he can not grasp that they are more than likely (if not obviiusly) right and Winseer is wrong.
You two should pair up, you both come across as being eccentric on here…and to be brutally honest…a tad strange. 
robroy:
anon84679660:
Anyone who is not supporting Winseer on this thread, clearly is not a lorry driver, doing this job for a living.
We need to all remember, this forum is overloaded with various agency bosses, haulage companies bosses, getting more desperate by the day trying to keep us drivers, to make sure we don’t start raising our heads above the parapet.
Driver is not a human being, has to be kept down, treated like s.h.i.t and never allow himself to think he could be treated as another human being, with respect.
I’ve seen it all numerous times, while being employed in this industry.Whilst I tend to agree with you on SOME of those points…If you read and participated in other threads instead of (by your own admission) only having the time to participate in Brexit related threads (aka boring the arse off everyone with your incessant bad loser ramblings) you would know that Winseer lurrrrves playing the victim.
Everybody Winseer comes up against in his career (possibly his life) has the same opinion of him evidently, but he can not grasp that they are more than likely (if not obviiusly) right and Winseer is wrong.
You two should pair up, you both come across as being eccentric on here…and to be brutally honest…a tad strange.
If you weren’t sticking your head in threads, that you shouldn’t be sticking your head in, that bore you off, and reading my comments, you would be a much happier person robroy, but for some reason despite complaining for as long as I can remember about the Brexit thread, and demanding it to be closed, you just keep coming, reading all these boring posts, making yourself a very unhappy and a bitter person.
anon84679660:
robroy:
anon84679660:
Anyone who is not supporting Winseer on this thread, clearly is not a lorry driver, doing this job for a living.
We need to all remember, this forum is overloaded with various agency bosses, haulage companies bosses, getting more desperate by the day trying to keep us drivers, to make sure we don’t start raising our heads above the parapet.
Driver is not a human being, has to be kept down, treated like s.h.i.t and never allow himself to think he could be treated as another human being, with respect.
I’ve seen it all numerous times, while being employed in this industry.Whilst I tend to agree with you on SOME of those points…If you read and participated in other threads instead of (by your own admission) only having the time to participate in Brexit related threads (aka boring the arse off everyone with your incessant bad loser ramblings) you would know that Winseer lurrrrves playing the victim.
Everybody Winseer comes up against in his career (possibly his life) has the same opinion of him evidently, but he can not grasp that they are more than likely (if not obviiusly) right and Winseer is wrong.
You two should pair up, you both come across as being eccentric on here…and to be brutally honest…a tad strange.If you weren’t sticking your head in threads, that you shouldn’t be sticking your head in, that bore you off, and reading my comments, you would be a much happier person robroy, but for some reason despite complaining for as long as I can remember about the Brexit thread, and demanding it to be closed, you just keep coming, reading all these boring posts, making yourself a very unhappy and a bitter person.
The whole point of being a member of a forum is that you can answer any thread you wish otherwise it very rapidily becomes an echo chamber and then by definition boring, the more view points the more interesting a forum even if you don’t agree with some viewpoints
anon84679660:
robroy:
anon84679660:
Anyone who is not supporting Winseer on this thread, clearly is not a lorry driver, doing this job for a living.
We need to all remember, this forum is overloaded with various agency bosses, haulage companies bosses, getting more desperate by the day trying to keep us drivers, to make sure we don’t start raising our heads above the parapet.
Driver is not a human being, has to be kept down, treated like s.h.i.t and never allow himself to think he could be treated as another human being, with respect.
I’ve seen it all numerous times, while being employed in this industry.Whilst I tend to agree with you on SOME of those points…If you read and participated in other threads instead of (by your own admission) only having the time to participate in Brexit related threads (aka boring the arse off everyone with your incessant bad loser ramblings) you would know that Winseer lurrrrves playing the victim.
Everybody Winseer comes up against in his career (possibly his life) has the same opinion of him evidently, but he can not grasp that they are more than likely (if not obviiusly) right and Winseer is wrong.
You two should pair up, you both come across as being eccentric on here…and to be brutally honest…a tad strange.If you weren’t sticking your head in threads, that you shouldn’t be sticking your head in, that bore you off, and reading my comments, you would be a much happier person robroy, but for some reason despite complaining for as long as I can remember about the Brexit thread, and demanding it to be closed, you just keep coming, reading all these boring posts, making yourself a very unhappy and a bitter person.
Err if you’re going to come back at me fair enough, but at least come back with accuracy rather than made up b/s.
WHERE and WHEN exactly have I ever demanded the thread to be closed?
Sure I’ve said abd complained it’s a waste of time consistently banging on about a democratic result that you are not suited about, and one that can achieve nothing, sure I’ve said you are a pain in the arse on it …oh yeh, and you have the cheek to call ME bitter? 
Wiw! The irony on that one. :
And why exactly should I ‘Not be sticking my head’ into any thread in the forum?
The only reason I do into that particular one is to view in amazement at how petulant you and others (but mainly you) can be endlessly banging on with your tedious examples of ‘Why we should have stayed in the EU’ and ‘How stupid we all were for voting to be rid of it’ ,
Ok, ou are entitled to your opinion, but endlessly rattling on about it just smacks of immaturity, petulance and childishly stamping your feet whilst sticking your lip out because you did not get ‘your own way’.
Live with it and move on…ffs.
Mazzer2:
anon84679660:
robroy:
anon84679660:
Anyone who is not supporting Winseer on this thread, clearly is not a lorry driver, doing this job for a living.
We need to all remember, this forum is overloaded with various agency bosses, haulage companies bosses, getting more desperate by the day trying to keep us drivers, to make sure we don’t start raising our heads above the parapet.
Driver is not a human being, has to be kept down, treated like s.h.i.t and never allow himself to think he could be treated as another human being, with respect.
I’ve seen it all numerous times, while being employed in this industry.Whilst I tend to agree with you on SOME of those points…If you read and participated in other threads instead of (by your own admission) only having the time to participate in Brexit related threads (aka boring the arse off everyone with your incessant bad loser ramblings) you would know that Winseer lurrrrves playing the victim.
Everybody Winseer comes up against in his career (possibly his life) has the same opinion of him evidently, but he can not grasp that they are more than likely (if not obviiusly) right and Winseer is wrong.
You two should pair up, you both come across as being eccentric on here…and to be brutally honest…a tad strange.If you weren’t sticking your head in threads, that you shouldn’t be sticking your head in, that bore you off, and reading my comments, you would be a much happier person robroy, but for some reason despite complaining for as long as I can remember about the Brexit thread, and demanding it to be closed, you just keep coming, reading all these boring posts, making yourself a very unhappy and a bitter person.
The whole point of being a member of a forum is that you can answer any thread you wish otherwise it very rapidily becomes an echo chamber and then by definition boring, the more view points the more interesting a forum even if you don’t agree with some viewpoints
You have just answered your first reply to me yourself, better than I did !!
Edit
…Sorry Mazzer, got that wrong, I thought Mr Kloss had answered that,.and was arguing with HIMSELF.
Anyhoo…back to the thread and Winseer.
Don’t waste your time feeling sorry for him, he’s beyond any help or listening to reason, plus he enjoys being a victim.
anon84679660:
Anyone who is not supporting Winseer on this thread, clearly is not a lorry driver, doing this job for a living.
We need to all remember, this forum is overloaded with various agency bosses, haulage companies bosses, getting more desperate by the day trying to keep us drivers, to make sure we don’t start raising our heads above the parapet.
Driver is not a human being, has to be kept down, treated like s.h.i.t and never allow himself to think he could be treated as another human being, with respect.
I’ve seen it all numerous times, while being employed in this industry.
No I am definitely a lorry driver. My first response in this thread (last post on page 1) was questioning why Winseer has such a problem with companies offering “any 5 from 7” shift patterns and asking how many potential good jobs he has dismissed because of this.
I then went on to make a further point how he misinterprets what they usually mean because working 5 days a week in this country is the norm for a full time worker, therefore I don’t get why he gets his knickers in a twist over it.
Agencies rarely tell you what the job actually entails just a load of guff about checks and reporting to the …. The never give what the job actually entails in case some one twigs and goes direct
Looks like the same arguments that keep us all divided as drivers - are the same ones that keep me this “VIctim” you all describe…
What is the choice though? Fight back by being a big troublemaker at all times OR simply slit my wrists, and go quietly into the night, entirely beaten and put down by people I thought were my contemporary peers on my side?
Perhaps it is time for me to pick up the banner of being politically against ZHC and Agencies, and their evil ways - rather than attempt to cash in by being part OF their culture and private world, where they seem to be able to get away with charging hauliers an ever-raising rate, taking advantage of a firm’s reluctance to actually give their full time staff rights and perks any longer…?
Full time jobs with actual written contracts directly employed - seem as scarce as ever.
Enquire after a job advert that is one of these fabled directly employed efforts - and it’s low pay with “Bonuses for recruiting other drivers” rather than just a knock-out high hourly rate and guaranteed hours that would knock the socks of the agencies - then and there…
This “Finders Fee” for drivers - is going to end up a pyramid-selling mess, as you’re going to get before long both Yard Bosses and Agency Reps sending people into a place for a token few shifts - just to get that one-off recruitment bonus payment, and then casually discarding that hapless worker, and moving onto the next mug who though after being at the same place 12 weeks that “They’ve got it made…”
