NFT have had them for a while. 10 seconds before a harsh brake or something. Light turns red from blue. I had it happen while id got a ■■■ on and never heard nowt about it and NFT have sacked people for smoking. I pulled passenger sunvisor down after that which covered it up.
To everyone sane, here is the cure for this camera related cackery.
This is being sold on the basis of being safety related. The corporate bullshitters know that we know that this is cobblers. They also think that although we know it is such, we can do sod all about it because they have played their Safety Related Joker on this round. They are serious, they have even got some managers? supervisors? clerks? on board with tales of catastrophic seat failure!
We need to get serious too. They are our licences, we have no option but to fully protect them. If you should yawn towards the tail end of your shift, you need to pull in. You and I know how tired we are, we know if we are able to safely continue, but the camera does not. Where before you might have taken a yawn as the first sign that you could do with a coffee when you stop, you now have to treat it very differently. Yes you may be perfectly capable of carrying on in complete safety, but you can’t. If twenty seconds later you happen to be involved in any of the thousands of incidents we can be, (catastrophic seat failures excluded of course) that yawn will be evidence of potential culpability.
You need to let your gaffer know that in the event you start yawning, you will have to stop for at least a break. If you still appear to be tired IE yawny, it will be a daily rest, irrespective of the load you are carrying. You first duty under HSE legislation is to protect yourself and others around you (sorry boss, my hands are tied. I’d love to help, but this is (big boomy echoey voice: Safety Related)). Let him or her know that you take this duty very seriously and that if it ever gets to tribunal, or God forbid the TC you will be very clear that you had to pull over for reasons of public safety. Of course if there was no driver facing camera, you would be able to exercise your own professional judgement as to the degree of tiredness and in all probability feel comfortable with continuing your journey. Unfortunately though boss, in order to protect my licence there is no way I could continue if I even appeared to be tired.
That is going to be my position anyway, bring it on.
Kerragy:
To everyone sane, here is the cure for this camera related cackery.This is being sold on the basis of being safety related. The corporate bullshitters know that we know that this is cobblers. They also think that although we know it is such, we can do sod all about it because they have played their Safety Related Joker on this round. They are serious, they have even got some managers? supervisors? clerks? on board with tales of catastrophic seat failure!
We need to get serious too. They are our licences, we have no option but to fully protect them. If you should yawn towards the tail end of your shift, you need to pull in. You and I know how tired we are, we know if we are able to safely continue, but the camera does not. Where before you might have taken a yawn as the first sign that you could do with a coffee when you stop, you now have to treat it very differently. Yes you may be perfectly capable of carrying on in complete safety, but you can’t. If twenty seconds later you happen to be involved in any of the thousands of incidents we can be, (catastrophic seat failures excluded of course) that yawn will be evidence of potential culpability.
You need to let your gaffer know that in the event you start yawning, you will have to stop for at least a break. If you still appear to be tired IE yawny, it will be a daily rest, irrespective of the load you are carrying. You first duty under HSE legislation is to protect yourself and others around you (sorry boss, my hands are tied. I’d love to help, but this is (big boomy echoey voice: Safety Related)). Let him or her know that you take this duty very seriously and that if it ever gets to tribunal, or God forbid the TC you will be very clear that you had to pull over for reasons of public safety. Of course if there was no driver facing camera, you would be able to exercise your own professional judgement as to the degree of tiredness and in all probability feel comfortable with continuing your journey. Unfortunately though boss, in order to protect my licence there is no way I could continue if I even appeared to be tired.
That is going to be my position anyway, bring it on.
Could not agree more mate, play them at their own game and make their own game turn against them…job done.
You would do it, I would do it, but you are advocating here for driver solidarity, which in it’s self is a contradiction in terms.(…like Wigan Athletic and Military Intelligence 
)
This job is awash with yes men and invertebrates …the condition which enables them to bend over even further.
All gob and no action, you know how it is.
There has been, and still are, numerous aspects of this job that has turned it to ■■■■, that could have been chucked out if drivers had stuck together and just said…NO.
Our lot have cameras that activate pointing in and out after harsh braking only .(so.we are told), for + and - 10 seconds, but my inward one is covered for good measure, as for every one occasion that would work for me, there sure as will be a dozen that would not.
A similar sized co as our lot, from the North East that do a lot of the same work we do, only have the outward camera for the simple reason the drivers got together and said NO to the inward facing one with it.
So there is a comparison that proves it DOES work if drivers have balls and a backbone. 
Kerragy:
To everyone sane, here is the cure for this camera related cackery.This is being sold on the basis of being safety related. The corporate bullshitters know that we know that this is cobblers. They also think that although we know it is such, we can do sod all about it because they have played their Safety Related Joker on this round. They are serious, they have even got some managers? supervisors? clerks? on board with tales of catastrophic seat failure!
We need to get serious too. They are our licences, we have no option but to fully protect them. If you should yawn towards the tail end of your shift, you need to pull in. You and I know how tired we are, we know if we are able to safely continue, but the camera does not. Where before you might have taken a yawn as the first sign that you could do with a coffee when you stop, you now have to treat it very differently. Yes you may be perfectly capable of carrying on in complete safety, but you can’t. If twenty seconds later you happen to be involved in any of the thousands of incidents we can be, (catastrophic seat failures excluded of course) that yawn will be evidence of potential culpability.
You need to let your gaffer know that in the event you start yawning, you will have to stop for at least a break. If you still appear to be tired IE yawny, it will be a daily rest, irrespective of the load you are carrying. You first duty under HSE legislation is to protect yourself and others around you (sorry boss, my hands are tied. I’d love to help, but this is (big boomy echoey voice: Safety Related)). Let him or her know that you take this duty very seriously and that if it ever gets to tribunal, or God forbid the TC you will be very clear that you had to pull over for reasons of public safety. Of course if there was no driver facing camera, you would be able to exercise your own professional judgement as to the degree of tiredness and in all probability feel comfortable with continuing your journey. Unfortunately though boss, in order to protect my licence there is no way I could continue if I even appeared to be tired.
That is going to be my position anyway, bring it on.
I like it! You’re right, if the camera catches you yawning, and five minutes later there is a collision, it’s very easy to point the finger at you. It’s completely right that you should protect yourself and others by breaking when you feel a bit tired, especially when the camera could capture incriminating evidence of you looking tired, prior to an incident. Afterall, it’s in the interest of general safety, yours and the public’s. The greater good, you could even say! I do think the managerial class and their “we know best” attitude need a jolly good seeing to.
Although if you park-up early because you feel slightly tired, you will get the backing of the HSE because you’ve done it in the interest of safety, you may get the reluctant backing of your manager, but they will still be ■■■■■■■■■■ about you playing the game, and their loads being late. The problem is, if you start playing silly buggers with the management, or more likely, the planners, as they’d be the ones effected by you parking-up prematurely, you could potentially be in for a rough ride. It could be bye-bye cushy long runs, hello inner-city multi-drops. Unless everybody does it, you’re just making yourself a target for a daily shafting. The house always wins.
I think what I will do, should I encounter a camera, is cover it up, and fit my own, facing myself. Then, if there is an incident, I will happily supply my footage to the relevant authorities, should they ask for it. I wouldn’t be doing anything wrong, but at least it’s my own footage.
I went to a company (through an agency) and VOR’d the unit they gave me and said I would not be driving any vehicle in the same condition. Pictures taken as the vehicle did not comply with Regulation 30 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (SI 1986 No. 1078 as amended
It’s the same as a sat nav in the window, if it’s in the sweep of the blades, it is obscuring your view, hence illegal.
Went home with 8 hours pay 
No way will I be working with a camera pointing at me.
WildGoose:
It’s an interesting debate. I’ll add my 2 pence.I work in a management position now, I have been a driver for many years, and of course, in that capacity, I was dead against the intrusion of privacy that they appeared to be in my own head, from my very limited perspective at the time. On a fleet of any size, as a driver, we really don’t see the bigger picture. It has honestly been really interesting having the opportunity to see things from both sides. I hope it makes me better at my job now.
I have direct responsibility for all our fleet cameras, getting people to stop interfering with them, blocking them, sabotaging them etc is a constant problem, and a very expensive one. Cameras are sensitive bits of equipment and they are very good at going wrong all by themselves without people helping them along. By collecting images of our driving staff, we need to be registers with the Information Commissioner as a Data Controller, and ensure we abide by the Data Protection Act. I wrote our company policy on this. By working at the company, you agree to be bound by the terms, if you don’t wish to be, then it’s a simple choice. Interestingly, you are entitled to a copy of any footage featuring you, but the company can also charge up to a set amount for providing this to you. I would encourage everyone to go and read the published guidelines on CCTV from the Information Commissioners Office. Your privacy is protected, but not to the extent you might feel it should be.
Our cameras turn themselves off 10 minutes or so after ignition is off, so what you do in your own time is up to you. Regardless, I have a busy 70 hour+ week, do drivers really think I want to be looking at them in their own time. I’ll pass on that one thanks.
Interestingly, we have had incidents of catastrophic seat failure in one particular marque of truck, the seat support would snap and throw the driver into the back wall of the cab
, potentially causing a serious accident. We have been lucky in the three cases this has happened, but luck was all it was. We can use this footage to prove to the manufacturer that they have a serious problem with their design or materials.
It’s funny those who have had non fault accidents and avoided prosecution, investigation, fines or simply having their job and reputation protected, are usually very strong advocates of the camera after the event.
We have saved tens of thousands of pounds, thanks to the cameras in the short couple of years I have been doing this. After accidents when accusations have been thrown by the third party. If I can prove that the driver was doing what he should have been doing (or to the best of his ability) at the time of the accident, then case closed. It’s usually those who have been caught out by the cameras that are against them the most. The systems pay for themselves many times over, and with schemes like FORS, CLOCS, WRRR and Crossrail, and whatever else in the future, you can guarantee camera systems in general are here to stay. Having a camera on the driver is an obvious addition.
If you are being a professional then I will do my best to defend you with the footage, including going to court on your behalf. If you are being daft, and texting, facebooking, whatsapping or playing pokemon or whatever it is as you drive along, then I will pass the footage on to my director and the police if necessary, and you are on your own. I’ve witnessed a death first hand on the road as a result of a driver not paying attention, my sympathy for not paying the proper attention is zero.
I’ll be honest, mobile phones and other distractions for drivers at the wheel are a real worry for the future. Roads are busier, cyclists are more prevalent, the job is arguably more demanding, we need drivers to pay attention, and they are doing that less. Sat in the second seat, it’s worrying the amount of times I have to ask people to leave their phone alone.
I’m sorry if this isn’t what most people want to hear, nobody likes having their privacy invaded, I get that. The reality of “making a stand” against them though is a bit of a non starter unless you are unionised, and even then, the Information Commissioners Office will always support cameras in the interest of safety, and private companies are pretty much free to operate how they wish on the right side of the law. You either work for them or you don’t.
It is a bit 1984 in that “nothing to hide, nothing to fear” sort of feeling, but this is true of every industry and workplace now not just in transport.
None of what you say justifies having one facing the driver.
A forward facing camera matched with all the built in fleet monitoring technology gives more than enough information as to what a driver’s actions are in the event of a accident.
What next? Camera placed over the bed to monitor a driver’s sleep patterns ? One over the urinals to test the colour of a driver’s pee to check for dehydration ?
There is no justification for them. It is a matter of decency and respect. It also takes culpability away from the company and places it firmly with the driver. Where are the studies on sleep patterns that show, for example three fifteen hour spreads in succesion including 29 hours of driving to have no effect, or at least an acceptable effect on a person? Throw in another couple of split rests with start times all over the place? I mean safe for all drivers and those around them? Where is the empirical evidence to prove that the ability to work these hours and remain acceptably alert is “normal”?
If they don’t exist then it is unreasonable to expect any driver to work those hours if they are expected to do so in front of a camera while exhibiting no signs of fatigue. Make no mistake, if the driver has been showing signs of tiredness and is involved in an accident then the driver is the one who will be blamed. I was and am quite serious, I will be telling my boss exactly that. I work hard, I’m no Mega Trucker, but I will be as flexible as I can with start times, extra shifts and going back up the road on a Friday with a changeover when I really want to be heading home. But I won’t have the Mickey took, and I won’the be placed in the position of being anybody’s scapegoat if I’m not to blame, just because I was working hard.
I can recall two incidents when one of these cameras has worked to my advantage, these both occured when rail replacement bus driving. 1st incident. A report that I had sworn at and threatened a passenger when I would not let him bring his racing bike onto the bus. The recording which had sound and was from several angles proved that it was him swearing at me and the only ‘impolite’ thing I said was " If you want to get to XYZ you’ve got a bike so ride it ". Incident 2: An allegation that I had stopped at a green light and then driven through a red one, I had no knowledge of this - the recording revealed that it had never happened. The passenger had been watching the wrong set of lights. It was assumed that he was upset because the service was being badly delayed by traffic hence the bus was running very late.
The difference is that in a PSV the cameras are there mainly to protect the employee or innocent passengers in the case of threatening behaviour.
I’m very interested to know in the case of the ex driver turned manager who says they’ve saved TENS OF THOUSANDS how much of that has been passed back to the drivers for having their privacy taken away■■?
Also interested to know what pay scale he pays said drivers please.
PandyDandy:
Keedwells have them. I believe that the office bods can view you when they want… Without you knowing, which is not good.
Utter tosh
They are in a 4 second loop that over records every four seconds unless switched on by the driver or activated through harsh braking. A red light comes on on the camera and can be seen by the driver if recording.
The recording if activated is viewed in America rated and then if serious enough is sent to keedwell s compliance manager for review.
If you tolerate this your children will be next.
Libraries gave us power.
Then work came and made us free.
What price now for a shallow piece of dignity?
the maoster:
If you tolerate this your children will be next.
It goes to show politically-themed music does work. We now live in a society which cannibalises our childrens’ futures before our own.
To be fair, the Spanish haven’t had a Civil War since they released it though.
Trucking is about freedom it’s about getting your load getting strapped and hitting the road with your favourite tune on. When some one installs camaras all that is taken away. Yes it is sad that your company does not trust you and you are only treated like a professional when your standing in the dock.
But good news is I passed my class 1 yesterday so I can now find another job that gives me the choice wether I want camaras or not because I was only told the day before they was going in.
Joke!
Digit369:
Trucking is about freedom it’s about getting your load getting strapped and hitting the road with your favourite tune on. When some one installs camaras all that is taken away. Yes it is sad that your company does not trust you and you are only treated like a professional when your standing in the dock.But good news is I passed my class 1 yesterday so I can now find another job that gives me the choice wether I want camaras or not because I was only told the day before they was going in.
Joke!
The days of Trucking being about freedom have long gone mate.
The rot started with cab phones.
Then the freedom was virtually eradicated when they started fitting ■■■■ trackers. The original idea of which, was to check where trucks were periodically, to plan accordingly which in it’s self was a good idea, but the system was abused by over zealous arse wipes (aka planners) who saw it as a means to keep tabs and hound you every half hour on the phone, …and drivers being drivers just put up with it and said nothing instead of nipping it in the bud, and telling them to ■■■■ off and leave them to do their job. So in many cases there is absolutely no freedom whatsoever, depending on how far you let them go with such abuse, and I reckon constant in cab monitoring on camera is the final coffin nail…and the day that I jack it all in.
Not a joke!
Well done passing your test btw.
I wouldn’t have it. I can soon find another job and if a camera that invaded my privacy was fitted I wouldn’t be driving that lorry. Their choice. Camera or lose a driver.
robroy:
Digit369:
Trucking is about freedom it’s about getting your load getting strapped and hitting the road with your favourite tune on. When some one installs camaras all that is taken away. Yes it is sad that your company does not trust you and you are only treated like a professional when your standing in the dock.But good news is I passed my class 1 yesterday so I can now find another job that gives me the choice wether I want camaras or not because I was only told the day before they was going in.
Joke!
The days of Trucking being about freedom have long gone mate.
The rot started with cab phones.
Then the freedom was virtually eradicated when they started fitting [zb] trackers. The original idea of which, was to check where trucks were periodically, to plan accordingly which in it’s self was a good idea, but the system was abused by over zealous arse wipes (aka planners) who saw it as a means to keep tabs and hound you every half hour on the phone, …and drivers being drivers just put up with it and said nothing instead of nipping it in the bud, and telling them to [zb] off and leave them to do their job. So in many cases there is absolutely no freedom whatsoever, depending on how far you let them go with such abuse, and I reckon constant in cab monitoring on camera is the final coffin nail…and the day that I jack it all in.
Not a joke!
Well, I am going to totally agree with you on them points, but I would not work for a company who was constantly on the phone or tracking your progress every minute of the day, I like you have been doing it long enough to remember the days before cab phones, yes it can be bad at some places, but will avoid like the plague
My present employer gives me a run sheet and loaded trailer and a start time, the vehicle I drive has a tracker a dash cam and a moblie phone and am left alone to do the job.
The only time I will hear from them through the day is a by means of a text message informing me of my start time the next day or the time they want me back in the yard next morning if on a night out, or if I ring them, as for the tracker I have just found out has an 8 minute delay on it, which isn’t a bad thing when youv’e taken a wrong turn, and the camera footage isn’t being beamed live to the office 24/7.
Sometimes you have to make allowances for new technology, mainly because it isn’t aimed at catching out everyone…
And some would say the rot started with tachographs…