Italian fined and lost the lorry?

[waynedl]

Harry Monk:

waynedl:

skids:
If every firm, UK and foreign was treated in this way then it would soon put a stop to any firms running bent at all.

I agree 100%, but we’ve got to be carefull, there’s a difference between running bent and making a mistake, and we don’t want to get harshly punished for mistakes.

I don’t think you can accidentally put a magnet on your gearbox.

Carryfast:

del949:

This marks the latest of a series of successful applications to confiscate vehicles used to commit offences of tachograph manipulation

taken from the ■■■■■■■■ police report on this incident. Evidently he is not the first, nor is he an owner driver so in actual fact he has only been fined £1000.
I don’t know if the tampering is involving a magnet or wether some other device has been used or if the tacho has been “adjusted” in the companies own workshop.
If the company was aware of/or party to the offence then they have got a clear message.
it seems to me that the courts have decided to hit the company hard, whilst the driver was only fined £250 for each of 4 fiddling offences

Carryfast
puzzled by your logic
Are you suggesting that the UK should be lenient on visiting lawbreakers to encourage foreign countries to be lenient in return?

In the space of 2 days we have this post complaining of foreign driver being punished and also a report of a driver bringing in illegals which the majority decided he shouldn’t be reported for.
Strange when many posts are complaints about johnny foreigner nicking our work and lots more about illegals nicking our benefits.

There’s a difference between the issue of sorting out the issue of the balance between the amount of loads leaving and entering the country being moved by foreign trucks compared to our own and trying to use the judicial system to ‘make life difficult’ for foreign operators when they get here as a way of doing that.

If what limeyphil says,about the type of penalty which the offender would have faced at home,for the same offence,is correct,then it’s obvious that would/should be taken into account when sentencing the offender for doing the same thing here.If not then it’s obvious that ‘in the real world’,not the British black and white one of road traffic law enforcement,**that’s going to leave the few operators from here who go into that operator’s home turf (and some fast car enthusiasts ) open to some ■■■ for tat ‘law enforcement’,**in this case in Italy.When it’s obvious that just a ban from operating here would have been sufficient in this case as a way of letting foreign operators know that the law here views things a bit different to there but without the vindictive excercise of taking the wagon away which will obviously cause some calls for reciprocal action knowing the Italian mindset.

As for the ‘illegals’ that has more to do with the incentive provided by the British government,for every economic migrant and his wife,to come here because they know when they do the British government will provide for their every need,on the basis of their ‘human rights’,instead of sending them home again as soon as they land at Dover or get found on the road in the back of a truck who’s driver might,or might not, (innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt) know they’re on board.

That’s what I mean Harry, as I stated, I’m 100% in support of extremely harsh treatment of people who think it’s ok to blatently break the rules, but don’t want the whiplash effect that all rules, no matter how they were broken, are treated harshly.

I don’t exceed 40mph on single carriageways, even the A75, and I don’t agree with those that blatently fly down there - I don’t do anything to stop or inhibit this and flash them in when clear of me, but don’t agree with it - so, harsh punishment for someone blatently breaking the law could easily be over-enforced so when your speedo creeps over 40mph on a downhill stretch, you get the same treatment.

That’s what I’m saying we have to be carefull of.

Now, let’s say, you take your truck to Italy, and some of your ‘long vehicle’ boards are scraped off - as they do when loading / unloading on bays - and they confiscate your vehicle because of this to get their own back on the UK for what’s happened to this chap?

[bacon_sandwich]

limeyphil:
i think it’s bloody ridiculous. fiddling your tacho in italy carries a 40 euro fine, and that’s it.
i don’t know of any case where anyone has been killed or injured by anyone running bent.

Really?

commercialmotor.com/latest-n … -tiredness

[carryfast]

waynedl:

Harry Monk:

waynedl:

skids:
If every firm, UK and foreign was treated in this way then it would soon put a stop to any firms running bent at all.

I agree 100%, but we’ve got to be carefull, there’s a difference between running bent and making a mistake, and we don’t want to get harshly punished for mistakes.

I don’t think you can accidentally put a magnet on your gearbox.

Carryfast:

del949:

This marks the latest of a series of successful applications to confiscate vehicles used to commit offences of tachograph manipulation

taken from the ■■■■■■■■ police report on this incident. Evidently he is not the first, nor is he an owner driver so in actual fact he has only been fined £1000.
I don’t know if the tampering is involving a magnet or wether some other device has been used or if the tacho has been “adjusted” in the companies own workshop.
If the company was aware of/or party to the offence then they have got a clear message.
it seems to me that the courts have decided to hit the company hard, whilst the driver was only fined £250 for each of 4 fiddling offences

Carryfast
puzzled by your logic
Are you suggesting that the UK should be lenient on visiting lawbreakers to encourage foreign countries to be lenient in return?

In the space of 2 days we have this post complaining of foreign driver being punished and also a report of a driver bringing in illegals which the majority decided he shouldn’t be reported for.
Strange when many posts are complaints about johnny foreigner nicking our work and lots more about illegals nicking our benefits.

There’s a difference between the issue of sorting out the issue of the balance between the amount of loads leaving and entering the country being moved by foreign trucks compared to our own and trying to use the judicial system to ‘make life difficult’ for foreign operators when they get here as a way of doing that.

If what limeyphil says,about the type of penalty which the offender would have faced at home,for the same offence,is correct,then it’s obvious that would/should be taken into account when sentencing the offender for doing the same thing here.If not then it’s obvious that ‘in the real world’,not the British black and white one of road traffic law enforcement,**that’s going to leave the few operators from here who go into that operator’s home turf (and some fast car enthusiasts ) open to some ■■■ for tat ‘law enforcement’,**in this case in Italy.When it’s obvious that just a ban from operating here would have been sufficient in this case as a way of letting foreign operators know that the law here views things a bit different to there but without the vindictive excercise of taking the wagon away which will obviously cause some calls for reciprocal action knowing the Italian mindset.

As for the ‘illegals’ that has more to do with the incentive provided by the British government,for every economic migrant and his wife,to come here because they know when they do the British government will provide for their every need,on the basis of their ‘human rights’,instead of sending them home again as soon as they land at Dover or get found on the road in the back of a truck who’s driver might,or might not, (innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt) know they’re on board.

That’s what I mean Harry, as I stated, I’m 100% in support of extremely harsh treatment of people who think it’s ok to blatently break the rules, but don’t want the whiplash effect that all rules, no matter how they were broken, are treated harshly.

I don’t exceed 40mph on single carriageways, even the A75, and I don’t agree with those that blatently fly down there - I don’t do anything to stop or inhibit this and flash them in when clear of me, but don’t agree with it - so, harsh punishment for someone blatently breaking the law could easily be over-enforced so when your speedo creeps over 40mph on a downhill stretch, you get the same treatment.

That’s what I’m saying we have to be carefull of.

Now, let’s say, you take your truck to Italy, and some of your ‘long vehicle’ boards are scraped off - as they do when loading / unloading on bays - and they confiscate your vehicle because of this to get their own back on the UK for what’s happened to this chap?

youtube.com/watch?v=3hcmGG6VUsU

Or even worse this happens the next time I go to Monza or Enna with the Jag.

[onlyalan]

I can’t personally see where the nationality of the truck or driver comes into this one (unless it is a cultural thing).

If a driver is running as bent as this one either his boss knows about it and condones or even encourages it, or doesn’t know about it because he doesn’t want to know.

The £1000 fine for the driver was for his part, the confiscation of the truck was the punishment given to the owner for permitting/encouraging/condoning the offence. That sounds fair enough to me.

I suspect there won’t be a second offence from this operator now he knows it may well cost him another £46,000.

[limeyphil]

the worst offence they found was a quick round trip of about 34 miles showing rest.
for all we know. he could have been taking his time off, dropped his trailer and gone to see his mate for a while.
i just can’t see any justification for their actions.
he got caught. so give him a slapped wrist.
i could understand them impounding the truck if it was full of red/contraband, or a complete shed.

[carryfast]

OnlyAlan:
I can’t personally see where the nationality of the truck or driver comes into this one (unless it is a cultural thing).

It’s not really a case of wether you think the nationality of the truck comes into this one.

The Italians probably will probably see it as a national/cultural thing ‘if’ they think that this operator has been victimised unfairly when he got nicked for ( what they might see as ) something trivial here,when word gets around depending on the financial implications of the penalty to the operator and his employee/s.

Which can only result in it being even more likely that loads from/to here/there will end up on Polish or Romanian trucks not British ones and if they do go on a British truck then you can bet that what might have been a small problem,with the law there,will now probably turn into a big one.

But the Brits shooting their own road transport industry in the foot is nothing new.

[carryfast]

limeyphil:
the worst offence they found was a quick round trip of about 34 miles showing rest.
for all we know. he could have been taking his time off, dropped his trailer and gone to see his mate for a while.
i just can’t see any justification for their actions.
he got caught. so give him a slapped wrist.
i could understand them impounding the truck if it was full of red/contraband, or a complete shed.

^ This,or at worse a ban from operating here after discussing the issue with the Italian O licencing authorities ,assuming all of that’s right.

[carryfast]

.

[carryfast]

Bacon Sandwich:

limeyphil:
i think it’s bloody ridiculous. fiddling your tacho in italy carries a 40 euro fine, and that’s it.
i don’t know of any case where anyone has been killed or injured by anyone running bent.

Really?

commercialmotor.com/latest-n … -tiredness

That’s a bit like saying that because someone caused,or could have caused,carnage by driving through a built up area at stupid speeds then anyone caught over the motorway speed limit in reasonable conditions should face the same penalty.There’s always been an issue here of disproportionate penalties which don’t fit the crime.

[mickyblue]

limeyphil:
i think it’s bloody ridiculous. fiddling your tacho in italy carries a 40 euro fine, and that’s it.
i don’t know of any case where anyone has been killed or injured by anyone running bent.

Wow, have you just woken from a deep sleep

[mickyblue]

If he didn’t get caught then you guys would be moaning about that. Now your moaning he was caught

[switchlogic]

Yes Carryfast we get it, you take your big Jag abroad and drive it fast. You dont have to remind us every second post. You sound like an 18 year old boy racer boasting to his mates. Grow up.

[long_distance_clara]

The old bill and Vosa cant win. if you get a group of drivers together within 5 mins the words forign lorry driver will come up. Ghen you hear how vosa do nothing to them. When they do vosa and plod are out of order.

Never known an industry with such moaning miserable unhappy people. I cant believe people are talking about mistakes in tachos in the same breath. talk about exagerating 4 times he was caught with a magnet hardley a mistake.

People moan there are no driving jobs then defend this idiot who is doing two peoples jobs.

thats my morning rant over with.

[del_trotter]

switchlogic:
Yes Carryfast we get it, you take your big Jag abroad and drive it fast. You dont have to remind us every second post. You sound like an 18 year old boy racer boasting to his mates. Grow up.

Perhaps he would do better here, www.pistonheads.com, bigoted idiots arguing about how fast they have driven, sounds right up carryfast’s street.

[limeyphil]

Long distance clara:
The old bill and Vosa cant win. if you get a group of drivers together within 5 mins the words forign lorry driver will come up. Ghen you hear how vosa do nothing to them. When they do vosa and plod are out of order.

Never known an industry with such moaning miserable unhappy people. I cant believe people are talking about mistakes in tachos in the same breath. talk about exagerating 4 times he was caught with a magnet hardley a mistake.

People moan there are no driving jobs then defend this idiot who is doing two peoples jobs.

thats my morning rant over with.

i’ve heard over an over again about east europeans undercutting, doing this, doing that, everything from the east is bad. but i havn’t ever heard anyone say that vosa do nothing about foreign drivers.
the irish, north and south get pulled to the extent of victimisation. you may see one British registered lorry out of ten at any checkpoint.

[kr79]

Go on the euro forum people moan at the Spanish fining Brits €5000 for what here would be a ticking off or a 60 quid fine. But it is an incentive to do it right.

[bigvern1]

Long distance clara:
The old bill and Vosa cant win. if you get a group of drivers together within 5 mins the words forign lorry driver will come up. Ghen you hear how vosa do nothing to them. When they do vosa and plod are out of order.

Never known an industry with such moaning miserable unhappy people. I cant believe people are talking about mistakes in tachos in the same breath. talk about exagerating 4 times he was caught with a magnet hardley a mistake.

People moan there are no driving jobs then defend this idiot who is doing two peoples jobs.

thats my morning rant over with.

There was a fat, Northern, loud mouthed prick at Dublin Port on Weds afternoon. He wanted EVERYONE to hear his bigotted, Racist anti Polish rant. And they must have. I have never been more ashamed to be English whilst in Dublin. And I lived there for years. To make matters worse…I found out he was sharing my cabin.I told him I wasn’t interested in his constant ■■■■■■■■ and luckily, IT just showered and never came back.

[brit_pete]

Well folks , lets make it clear if you get stopped by German police they will want the fine paid and if the offence is a serious one , then you will get a hefty fine ,which can be very high when it has been proven you have cheated to make a bigger profit ,The police in Germany still impound those vehicles whose drivers or firms can not pay the fine as and when required, Further more the Italians are well known for fiddling their recording system in the truck in a very professional way and many drivers have been caught out when driving trucks with a altered system which has been done by their employer/owners, In my eyes we need to catch and stop these people why because they are the ones who by running bent ,can and will do a trip for much much less than those who run legal, come on we can not in this day and age run like we used to , Why because the stress factor is higher today than when we had borders ,also traffic on the roads is of such proportions that Accidents happen more often and by running bent we will be too tired to react correctly when needed .ad yes I was no angel but you either change your way of working or reap the consequences.

[bigvern1]

That’s a bold statement Pete!

[brit_pete]

well lets say German reports on the television down in Bayern where a combined
German and Italian police vehicle control were being carried out can not lieThe
driver of a Italian registered truck was stopped and a through check was done which
brought to light very large discrepancies after further investigation carried out in a
Scania workshop ,it was confirmed that the on board system had been changed
some what to the advantage of trucker and his employer,it is not only one country
that does this as we know ever country has its share of people who consider such
action to be normal ,I have never hid the fact that when I was working as a driver
in Germany,many firms were not running legal,how ever now days with the new laws
passed in Germany many transport managers (Disponents) and Company owners think
Twice before any such illegal action is carried out,But Black Sheep still try their
wicked ways .One law passed is that a extra large fine will be placed if the
police prove that the action taken was against the law and done in a way to boost profit,s
I rest my case , we all know what goes one as Time is money ,and NO one likes
to have a Truck standing still.