Isnt this how people get hurt?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

Big Joe:
I was always under the impression that C&U regs demanded at least 50% of axles on a vehicle were braked off the park valve :confused: .

Does the trailer count as part of the vehicle though? After all, if you have a trailer on your car the trailer hand brake is not in any way linked to the car’s hand brake.

It seems odd to me too, hence the reason I remember about those Volvos even though it’s nearly 7 years now since I did a shift there. My 05 plate Premium does apply the trailer brakes when you apply the unit hand brake as did the 52 plate one I had before it.

Paul

42

the tester will get you to operate the handbrake a couple of time while he checks to make sure all the brakes on the trailer are working.

43

Actually, they’re right about the volvo and scania handbrakes not putting the handbrake on the trailer, when I had a flat tyre on a trailer, the tyre fitter was changing the tyre and he could spin the wheel.

44

Never use trailer brakes :neutral_face: (do I qualify as a SCPD? :wink: )

45

limeyphil:
something i’ve never come across, in fact it sounds prety unsafe to me.
in light of what you’ve said, i think you’re mistaken.

Neither of us is mistaken.

The company I work for owns a Scania, a Volvo and A DAF.
They used to also own 6 other Volvos and another Scania.

I can assure you that neither of the Scanias or any of the Volvos pressurised the yellow air line when the tractor unit handbrake was applied
and therefore did not apply the trailer brakes.
The DAF, however, does as did the ERF/MAN units we used to run.

It’s a design, not a fault and I wonder if the fact that both Scania and Volvo are Swedish has anything to do with it.
Older Volvos and possibly Scanias were fitted with a separate trailer brake control.

As far as I can tell, the Scania I am driving at the moment only brakes the rear axle with the handbrake.
I do numerous trailer changes every day and when letting the rear suspension down, the front wheels turn freely.
I believe the Volvo is the same, when parked on an uphill slope with the handbrake applied, when you take your foot off the footbrake,
the front of the unit rears up, as did every other Volvo I have driven.

As for the trailers, attaching the yellow line has no effect but if I attach the red line with the trailer handbrake on (unit handbrake also on),
when I push the trailer handbrake button in, I can hear the brakes coming off and see the wheels turn slightly as the trailer suspension settles.

Not so with the DAF, the trailer brakes and wheels do not move at all until I release the unit handbrake.

It’s not rocket science, just a bit of paying attention to what you’re doing.

Regards,
Nick

46

Saratoga:
So when you artic drivers approach a trailer to hook up, are you saying that you don’t do a walk around check of the trailer before you even start to hook up? That was where my trainer told me I should have checked the brake was on? :unamused: :unamused:

I don’t get out and check the trailer but you do have to be careful that the shunt valve isn’t on, I’ve gone to hook up before and pushed the trailer straight back. I do check the brake is on before connecting lines though, seen a trailer slide off a unit due to the brake not being on, it wouldn’t of happened had he have dropped it the way they teach you.

47

Very confusing thread for any newbies looking in! It’s important to emphasise that if you back under a trailer and have a mishap because the trailer brake hadn’t been applied you’ll be looking for a new job. Split coupling is a separate issue, some firms permit it, some don’t. Perhaps this forum needs to agree some sort of technical sub forum for matters like this so that a definitive answer could be given to minimise confusion.

48

For the record, experience tells me that if a trailer has been stood long enough and the air has got low enough (or if it’s been rocked about by the wind) the brakes will[/i] eventually come off again, resulting in the thing simply rolling backwards when the next driver tries to go under it. Someone did give me the technical explanation once, but I’m embarrassed to admit it temporarily escapes me… :blush: …However, it very definately happens on our Dennisons and STCs on a regular basis when they’ve been left for more than a short while. The pull-button trailer brake is a spring brake and will stay on regardless (assuming it works).
I nearly killed my gaffer in one of my early artic jobs by failing to apply a trailer brake. In that instance it was an old ratchet jobbie which wouldn’t keep tension in the cable, so it could be argued that was as much a maintenance issue as driver error, but even so I should’ve told someone and not just left him to get nigh-on flattened when he was putting a numberplate on as his son went under it the following day… :blush:
Ever since then I’ve been obsessive about making sure trailer brakes are on, and let’s face it, pulling a button isn’t exactly an onerous task, especially when you’ve got to walk past it anyway… And no, I couldn’t care less how many shunters I upset, it’s better than killing one.

49

Lucy:
For the record, experience tells me that if a trailer has been stood long enough and the air has got low enough (or if it’s been rocked about by the wind) the brakes will[/i] eventually come off again, resulting in the thing simply rolling backwards when the next driver tries to go under it. Someone did give me the technical explanation once, but I’m embarrassed to admit it temporarily escapes me… :blush: …However, it very definately happens on our Dennisons and STCs on a regular basis when they’ve been left for more than a short while. The pull-button trailer brake is a spring brake and will stay on regardless (assuming it works).
[/quote]
If a trailer is fitted with spring brakes it will NOT move if there is no air in it.
The air supplied through the red air line fills the trailer air tank and the suspension
if it is air.
This air is used to hold the spring brakes off, the trailer park brake button works by
releasing the air from the brake chambers, allowing the springs to apply the brakes.
The shunt button works by filling the brake chambers with air, thus forcing the springs
off and releasing the brakes.
If your trailers’ brakes stop working when the air is down, they are either NOT fitted with spring brakes,
highly unlikely, I would have thought, or the springs are weak or broken.
Trailers used to have a ratchet tensioned cable handbrake, normally acting on one axle, as you say,
but in those days they didn’t have spring brakes.
The brakes were applied by air pressure, so the trailer would roll when the air was gone.
Regards,
Nick

50

So, if split coupling is on some sites a definite no-no, how does the more ‘rotund’ driver manage to couple up? Serious question.

51

booty4099:
So, if split coupling is on some sites a definite no-no, how does the more ‘rotund’ driver manage to couple up? Serious question.

You go under the trailer, put your dog clip on, hit the shunt button, and put some serious lock on the unit, oh look, you can get at the connectors now…

Only problem is, 99% of split coupling is fridges, so dropped on a bay, unloaded and reloaded, suspension bouncing round etc, chances are, there’ll be no air when you hit the shunt, and still have to put the red line on anyway.

52

limeyphil:
the tester will get you to operate the handbrake a couple of time while he checks to make sure all the brakes on the trailer are working.

when the handbrake is fully on there is no pressure in the yellow line, definately on a volvo, also many others i have driven, but if you pull the handbrake down it will operate the trailer brakes, just not when the handbrake is fully on.

53

Now, im a newly(ish) class 1 licence holder. I havent had a chance as of yet to get out in an arctic due to my age (23) and lack of experiance.

I am, however, rather concerned. It seems, from reading this thread which has been very informative, that most drivers dont check the trailer brake is applied…and they all seem more than aware of the dangers involved should it not be pulled out :blush: .

Im sure, whilst doing a check of the trailer, putting number plate on, winding legs or putting dog clip on…that it would’nt even add 1min onto this routine to check that the trailer brake is applied before connecting airlines. Surely your safety is worth 30 seconds to do a check of it.

As i say…i’ve not had the opportunity as of yet to connect a trailer in the ‘‘real world’’, but when i get the chance, i’ll be more than happy to check the trailer brake is out before connecting my air lines…and i would’nt be too fussed that i then had to push it back in :smiley:

Ben

54

bigfoot:
Now, im a newly(ish) class 1 licence holder. I havent had a chance as of yet to get out in an arctic due to my age (23) and lack of experiance.

I am, however, rather concerned. It seems, from reading this thread which has been very informative, that most drivers dont check the trailer brake is applied…and they all seem more than aware of the dangers involved should it not be pushed in.

Im sure, whilst doing a check of the trailer, putting number plate on, winding legs or putting dog clip on…that it would’nt even add 1min onto this routine to check that the trailer brake is applied before connecting airlines. Surely your safety is worth 30 seconds to do a check of it.

As i say…i’ve not had the opportunity as of yet to connect a trailer in the ‘‘real world’’, but when i get the chance, i’ll be more than happy to check the trailer brake is in before connecting my air lines…and i would’nt be too fussed that i then had to pull it back out :smiley:

Ben

Shows :wink:

Pulling of the brake enables it, you push it to turn it off

55

Hello Bigfoot,

It takes no more than a glance to see if the trailer brake is set,but first, you do have to be doing a walk round check.
In any line of work, there are those who just don’t bother and that is when accidents happen.

When you do reach your first trailer coupling, the two buttons are normally together.
The hand brake button is customarily red and the shunt button blue or black.

You pull the red one OUT to set the trailer hand brake but you PUSH the shunt valve in to release the brakes.

If the trailer is in good enough condition, you should see, on or near the buttons,
“Pull to park” and “Push to shunt.”

Disregarding the tractor unit for a moment and assuming the trailer air tank is full.

If both buttons are firmly pushed in the trailer will move
If both buttons are pulled firmly out, it will not

Regards,
Nick

56

waynedl:
Pulling of the brake enables it, you push it to turn it off

Yeah, yet think of all those emergency systems in buildings with big red buttons that you have to press to engage. On trailers, it’s pull to engage :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

57

Of coursre…i knew you had to push it in to turn the brake off :blush: :blush: :blush: …I was just testing everyones knowlage :wink:

Many thanks for that Nick…It broke it down so i could make more sense, thanks mate.

Ben

P.S…I’ve edited my first post so i dont look a constant ■■■…although it is quoted :blush:

58

As a newcomer to driving I’m completely paranoid about the trailer brake. When I learnt it was with a trailer with a cable brake, so out in to the big cruel world with no experience of red and black buttons on trailers. Picking up a trailer with 28000 litres of milk on my first solo drive I find that the red brake button has no label on at all. Would have been nice to have some guidance whether I pulled it out or pushed it in. I went and found someone to ask on the basis that it was better to look dumb than break the legs or push the trailer back in to a wall. Brake was off…

Couple of days later picking up a big new powder tanker parked inside a warehouse same applied, no label to tell me which way the button should go for on, and no one around to ask. Both times I pulled the button and on the powder tanker got a loud hiss which I hoped like hell was the brakes going on and not being released. At least it didn’t disappear through the far wall which was something of a relief.

On the same lines I’m amazed to find outlet and cleaning valves on tankers with no labels or indicators as to which way is open or shut, as if it doesn’t matter, so you have to hope that shut is handle across the pipe and open is handle in line with the flow (or get very wet or cause a lot of damage…)

59

One thing that needs to be pointed out to the couple of newbies who have posted on this thread is that 99% of the trailers that are on the road these days have brakes that are automatically applied when the red airline is disconnected, regardless of if there is air in the tanks or not. So people who don’t pull the brake on when they drop a trailer aren’t leaving it with the brakes off, as soon as they disconnect the airlines the brakes come on regardless of if the brake button is in or out. The only exception to that is if someone has used the shut button to release the brakes to move the trailer and forgotten to pull it back out again.

Paul

60

repton:
One thing that needs to be pointed out to the couple of newbies who have posted on this thread is that 99% of the trailers that are on the road these days have brakes that are automatically applied when the red airline is disconnected, regardless of if there is air in the tanks or not. So people who don’t pull the brake on when they drop a trailer aren’t leaving it with the brakes off, as soon as they disconnect the airlines the brakes come on regardless of if the brake button is in or out. The only exception to that is if someone has used the shut button to release the brakes to move the trailer and forgotten to pull it back out again.

Paul

But also, as we were talking of split coupling, then you connect the red line, brakes would be off again, then you ‘complete’ getting under the trailer and push it into a river or through a fence lol.

I think for 99% of coupling, then nobody would really care whether the brake was on or not, as it’d be on the 5th wheel when you’ve hooked the lines up, but for split coupling, definately worth a glance :wink: