I’ve just had a re-read of GV262, and it says quite clearly “the driver” should use a smart card and have records available, and that a co driver must also if driving is a possibility.
But if you have no intention to drive, having no cards would mean there is no possibility of you driving I would say.
Fine, it is the usual ’ let’s help the boss to find another loop hole to allow him to make me work seven days a week, 15 hours a day ’ then.
Good luck to you all. I work as much ( or rather as little) as I want. Not what my planner thinks the law allows.
Honestly. You think you can drive six shifts, max out, and do a seventh day and get away with it, simply by being a “drivers mate” ?
No wonder some of you are paid minimum wage, and we are expected to sit in a cage whilst we are unloaded…
I also quite clearly said the time spent as a mate or crane operator in this case should be recorded as other work. Meaning I couldn’t do anymore than you could either by putting your card in slot 2.
But the notion that as a passenger, with no intention of driving, I should HAVE to carry my DQC and smart card because I have driven an in scope vehicle recently, or risk a fine, is ■■■■■■■■ of the very highest order as far I have read.
I’m not, nor have I ever been paid minimum wage, and I believe strongly in questioning the authority of someone who says, “because I said so”, which is what the pics in the OP seem to be saying to me.
Lastly, my gaffer gets my full help and support, 100% of my effort and attention, Monday-Friday for an absolute maximum of 50 hours, and not a jot more.
I also quite clearly said the time spent as a mate or crane operator in this case should be recorded as other work. Meaning I couldn’t do anymore than you could either by putting your card in slot 2.
But the notion that as a passenger, with no intention of driving, I should HAVE to carry my DQC and smart card because I have driven an in scope vehicle recently, or risk a fine, is [zb] of the very highest order as far I have read.
I’m not, nor have I ever been paid minimum wage, and I believe strongly in questioning the authority of someone who says, “because I said so”, which is what the pics in the OP seem to be saying to me.
Lastly, my gaffer gets my full help and support, 100% of my effort and attention, Monday-Friday for an absolute maximum of 50 hours, and not a jot more.
But the question was about a drivers mate, not a passenger.
A drivers mate, is not driver, they are a passenger, the fact they are a paid passenger makes no odds as far as I can see. They have no intention to drive the vehicle. If they did they would have the card in slot 2 as you suggest.
F-reds:
A drivers mate, is not driver, they are a passenger, the fact they are a paid passenger makes no odds as far as I can see. They have no intention to drive the vehicle. If they did they would have the card in slot 2 as you suggest.
Ok, you are either trying g to bait me, or really stupid. I’ll be kind, and consider that you’re trying to bait me. And you’re not good enough at that.
F-reds:
A drivers mate, is not driver, they are a passenger, the fact they are a paid passenger makes no odds as far as I can see. They have no intention to drive the vehicle. If they did they would have the card in slot 2 as you suggest.
Ok, you are either trying g to bait me, or really stupid. I’ll be kind, and consider that you’re trying to bait me. And you’re not good enough at that.
He’s not baiting you at-all mate but I think there maybe some confusion about the terminology that’s being used, in the context of this discussion a drivers mate is someone who is there purely to help with the loading/unloading and will do no driving, if the drivers mate was there to help with the driving he would be classed as a driver and they would be multi-manning.
As the drivers mate is not going to do any driving at any time during the shift he’s not classed as a driver and therefore has no legal obligation to show records.
Having said that, as I said earlier if the drivers mate does any in-scope driving during the week he will have to record the none driving shift as other work, and he will need to carry and show that record when he’s driving in-scope of EU regulations.
the nodding donkey:
Honestly. You think you can drive six shifts, max out, and do a seventh day and get away with it, simply by being a “drivers mate” ?
No wonder some of you are paid minimum wage, and we are expected to sit in a cage whilst we are unloaded…
No that’s not what we’re saying, a driver who drives in-scope of EU regulations at any time in a week must start a weekly rest period no later than 144 hours from the start of the first shift after the previous weekly rest period, it doesn’t matter if any of the shifts are none driving shift they still count as other work and therefore count towards the six 24 hour periods (144 hours).
This whole discussion is about whether or not a drivers mate (none driving passenger) who holds a HGV licence has to carry his drivers documents on days that he’s not actually driving.
F-reds:
A drivers mate, is not driver, they are a passenger, the fact they are a paid passenger makes no odds as far as I can see. They have no intention to drive the vehicle. If they did they would have the card in slot 2 as you suggest.
Ok, you are either trying g to bait me, or really stupid. I’ll be kind, and consider that you’re trying to bait me. And you’re not good enough at that.
He’s not baiting you at-all mate but I think there maybe some confusion about the terminology that’s being used, in the context of this discussion a drivers mate is someone who is there purely to help with the loading/unloading and will do no driving, if the drivers mate was there to help with the driving he would be classed as a driver and they would be multi-manning.
As the drivers mate is not going to do any driving at any time during the shift he’s not classed as a driver and therefore has no legal obligation to show records.
Having said that, as I said earlier if the drivers mate does any in-scope driving during the week he will have to record the none driving shift as other work, and he will need to carry and show that record when he’s driving in-scope of EU regulations.
the nodding donkey:
Honestly. You think you can drive six shifts, max out, and do a seventh day and get away with it, simply by being a “drivers mate” ?
No wonder some of you are paid minimum wage, and we are expected to sit in a cage whilst we are unloaded…
No that’s not what we’re saying, a driver who drives in-scope of EU regulations at any time in a week must start a weekly rest period no later than 144 hours from the start of the first shift after the previous weekly rest period, it doesn’t matter if any of the shifts are none driving shift they still count as other work and therefore count towards the six 24 hour periods (144 hours).
This whole discussion is about whether or not a drivers mate (none driving passenger) who holds a HGV licence has to carry his drivers documents on days that he’s not actually driving.
I give up. Carry on. Work seven days. Work 15 hours. Work for the minimum wage. Or better still, work for free, as a drivers mate.
The whole thing about having your card in slot 2 is a grey area in my eyes.
A 2nd man with his card is slot 2, would be showing POA for all the time he is sat in the passenger seat. Fine for the purposes of genuine double manned long distance driving, but not really in most cases where the 2nd man is usually training/being trained and/or assisting the driver with his daily duties (with navigation, phoning customers etc. & then out of the cab unloading at drops). In such instances, to show POA (which isn’t classed as working time) for all your time sat in the passenger seat, is falsification of your records. Better to not use slot 2, but to insert your card at the end of the day and do manual entries to show a more accurate reflection of what you have actually been doing.
I did some training a while back where I sat with other drivers for a whole week, if I had put my card in slot 2 my records for the week would have been almost entirely POA & break. Clearly, not accurate.
I’ve just had a re-read of GV262, and it says quite clearly “the driver” should use a smart card and have records available, and that a co driver must also if driving is a possibility.
But if you have no intention to drive, having no cards would mean there is no possibility of you driving I would say.
Fine, it is the usual ’ let’s help the boss to find another loop hole to allow him to make me work seven days a week, 15 hours a day ’ then.
Good luck to you all. I work as much ( or rather as little) as I want. Not what my planner thinks the law allows.
Honestly. You think you can drive six shifts, max out, and do a seventh day and get away with it, simply by being a “drivers mate” ?
No wonder some of you are paid minimum wage, and we are expected to sit in a cage whilst we are unloaded…
So you’ve worked for Next home deliveries then mate! (A friend worked there)
It’s always a 2 man team, and when a driver is close to maxing out the 60, they get allocated drivers mate duties…
The 48 hour reference seemed less important, and I wonder if the words “we were busier than anticipated” get used?
Firms will blag the rules to suit their own ends, my firm has wrangled a 26 week reference period which resets in the middle of our busy period, so you can guess how that pans out!
F-reds:
A drivers mate, is not driver, they are a passenger, the fact they are a paid passenger makes no odds as far as I can see. They have no intention to drive the vehicle. If they did they would have the card in slot 2 as you suggest.
Ok, you are either trying g to bait me, or really stupid. I’ll be kind, and consider that you’re trying to bait me. And you’re not good enough at that.
He’s not baiting you at-all mate but I think there maybe some confusion about the terminology that’s being used.
No he’s not mate, since F-reds has put a tie on and driving a desk, his technical priorities/objectives have changed…
He’s Tachograph’s son!
Evil8Beezle:
No he’s not mate, since F-reds has put a tie on and driving a desk, his technical priorities/objectives have changed…
He’s Tachograph’s son!
Next time you’re in St Albans and need a 45, you’ll be more than welcome to drop in and see what I’ve been up to, you’ll laugh your ■■■ off I promise! I just switched one steel box for another one… I’m more of a shopkeeper/salesman and I’ve only got one drivers compliance to worry about luckily! Let’s face it, no one is going to touch Tach for his knowledge on the regs!
rob22888:
The whole thing about having your card in slot 2 is a grey area in my eyes.
A 2nd man with his card is slot 2, would be showing POA for all the time he is sat in the passenger seat. Fine for the purposes of genuine double manned long distance driving, but not really in most cases where the 2nd man is usually training/being trained and/or assisting the driver with his daily duties (with navigation, phoning customers etc. & then out of the cab unloading at drops). In such instances, to show POA (which isn’t classed as working time) for all your time sat in the passenger seat, is falsification of your records. Better to not use slot 2, but to insert your card at the end of the day and do manual entries to show a more accurate reflection of what you have actually been doing.
I did some training a while back where I sat with other drivers for a whole week, if I had put my card in slot 2 my records for the week would have been almost entirely POA & break. Clearly, not accurate.
I’ve only done double manning once but I seem to recall slot 2 has a mode switch so it can be put on other work.
Can someone more knowledgeable confirm that?
Not the one we have while the vehicle is in motion, it only records POA. There is a mode switch button so you can change it while stopped to break or other work. But as mentioned if you are training/assessing someone you are clearly doing other work, so if your card is in slot 2 recording POA that is a falsification of records.
If the tachograph cannot accurately record your work you do not use it, you use a manual entry instead.
F-reds:
Not the one we have while the vehicle is in motion, it only records POA. There is a mode switch button so you can change it while stopped to break or other work. But as mentioned if you are training/assessing someone you are clearly doing other work, so if your card is in slot 2 recording POA that is a falsification of records.
If the tachograph cannot accurately record your work you do not use it, you use a manual entry instead.
(A friend worked there)