friend of mine ran out of hours yesterday about an hour an half from base, another driver is brought out to truck they swap over, the new driver taking the truck over has forgot his digi card, 
so he sets off and gets back to base and does a print out and marks his name on the back of the paper is this legal â â
mark h:
friend of mine ran out of hours yesterday about an hour an half from base, another driver is brought out to truck they swap over, the new driver taking the truck over has forgot his digi card,
I wouldnât think so. Out of interest the VU will record the vehicle movements. How long did it take the âreliefâ driver to get to the truck?
Mike-C:
mark h:
friend of mine ran out of hours yesterday about an hour an half from base, another driver is brought out to truck they swap over, the new driver taking the truck over has forgot his digi card,I wouldnât think so. Out of interest the VU will record the vehicle movements. How long did it take the âreliefâ driver to get to the truck?
he was there within 10 mins of the driver parking up as the driver had thought ahead and rang in to say he wouldnt be able to get back, i know the vehicle wil record the movements but then how do ya drive without a digi ?
when you say ran out of hours, do you mean driving time or duty time? as if duty time technically it would be illegal unless you didnât drive the other vehicle if a company owned vehicle, or if the car was owned by himself/other driver it would be ok providing the vehicle & drivers where insured
Iâm pretty sure itâs not legal but I believe VOSA will make allowances if the card has been forgotten, however I would think the best thing to do would be to do a printout before and after the drive not just after.
edit: The driver would need to put his name or driver card number or driving license number on the printout and sign it.
Not strictly legal butâŚ
If you lose your card you have 7 days to report it. If you find it before you report it panic over. If you have lost your card you can drive for 15 days by taking a printout at the start and end of the shift, signing and entering your name and driving licence number or digi card number on both printouts. You also operate the mode switch as normal during the shift.
So a driver who thought he had lost his card and was going to report it tomorrow did a short shift in a digi equipped truck to recover a driver, who had ran out of driving time but still had duty time, and made the required printouts. However, before he could report the card lost he luckily found it and wrote an explanation on the printouts. Sorted. 
tommy t:
when you say ran out of hours, do you mean driving time or duty time? as if duty time technically it would be illegal unless you didnât drive the other vehicle if a company owned vehicle, or if the car was owned by himself/other driver it would be ok providing the vehicle & drivers where insured
It would be illegal to travel back to base if he had run out of duty time regardless of who drives or owns the vehicle. It would also be illegal to travel directly home from the place he ran out of time regardless of who owns or drives the vehicle unless he returns to the same place to resume work tomorrow.
The travel time to base or to home when he will go from his home to the base in the morning would count as duty time. Beginning his rest period then travelling to his home and then back to where he ran out of time to resume work would be disposing of his rest time as he wished so would not be duty time.
Coffeeholic:
Not strictly legal butâŚIf you lose your card you have 7 days to report it. If you find it before you report it panic over. If you have lost your card you can drive for 15 days by taking a printout at the start and end of the shift, signing and entering your name and driving licence number or digi card number on both printouts. You also operate the mode switch as normal during the shift.
So a driver who thought he had lost his card and was going to report it tomorrow did a short shift in a digi equipped truck to recover a driver, who had ran out of driving time but still had duty time, and made the required printouts. However, before he could report the card lost he luckily found it and wrote an explanation on the printouts. Sorted.
well this driver only done 1 when he got back the yard, stil signed it etc, he hasnt lost it, just forgot to take it with him !! so technically still illegal ! tommy, both drivers were driven to an from the destination by another driver !
mark h:
well this driver only done 1 when he got back the yard, stil signed it etc, he hasnt lost it, just forgot to take it with him !! so technically still illegal !
No, no, no, repeat after me. He had not forgotten his card, he had lost it. He was really lucky to find it before he got round to reporting it lost. That way itâs not illegal. 
mark h:
tommy, both drivers were driven to an from the destination by another driver !
That is irrelevant. If he had ran out of duty time he couldnât be collected regardless of who drove. If he had only ran out of driving time one driver could have gone out to him in a car or van and he could have driven that vehicle back himself, that driving would count as other work for the purpose of the tacho rules.
Coffeholic, I read your statement re being collected when out of hours and generally agree with your interpretation of the rules.
However, this used to happen on a regular basis (not to same driver all the time or the same duty) and when management decided to do this they first contacted DoE (as it was), and were told it was OK.
Several drivers didnât believe this and contacted them themsleves and were told the same thing.
I do mean out of time, 15 hours, and the only stipulation made was that the driver got the next shift off. (we got paid for it but that was âin houseâ and nothing to do with the authorities).
Generally this would cause us to work 15.5 to 16 hours
Not wanting to get into an argument with you , just stating what has happened in these circs in the not so distant past.
bit of an update, the said driver who driven back the other night didnt do a print out when he got back the yard hence basically drivin without a card in
surely thats illegal
mark h:
bit of an update, the said driver who driven back the other night didnt do a print out when he got back the yard hence basically drivin without a card insurely thatâs illegal
yes.
del949:
Coffeholic, I read your statement re being collected when out of hours and generally agree with your interpretation of the rules.
I donât interpret the rules, they donât need interpreting as it is all black and white, I just explain them.
del949:
However, this used to happen on a regular basis (not to same driver all the time or the same duty) and when management decided to do this they first contacted DoE (as it was), and were told it was OK.
Several drivers didnât believe this and contacted them themsleves and were told the same thing.
I do mean out of time, 15 hours, and the only stipulation made was that the driver got the next shift off. (we got paid for it but that was âin houseâ and nothing to do with the authorities).
Generally this would cause us to work 15.5 to 16 hours
Not wanting to get into an argument with you , just stating what has happened in these circs in the not so distant past.
The information you were given, if it was after January 2001 was incorrect, thatâs when the Skills Coaches case defined this once and for all.The maximum duty time between shifts is 15 hours and as travelling time from the collection point to base is duty time then it cannot take you beyond 15 hours from when you started your shift. Having the next shift off makes no difference to that.
like I said not wanting an argument.
possibly the last time I did this myself was pre 2001, as I transferred to days around then.
But It was certainly still happening up to Sept 2009 when I finished.
I would imagine that it was still with the sanction of the authorities as the company was a real stickler for the rules and this issue was brought up on a regular basis, always with the same outcome.
del949:
like I said not wanting an argument.
possibly the last time I did this myself was pre 2001, as I transferred to days around then.
But It was certainly still happening up to Sept 2009 when I finished.
I would imagine that it was still with the sanction of the authorities as the company was a real stickler for the rules and this issue was brought up on a regular basis, always with the same outcome.
As Coffeeholic has said once youâve reached 15 hours in a single manned vehicle travelling back to base is not rest and should be recorded as other work, failure to do so would be failing to record other work, going over 15 hours between two daily rest periods or a daily rest period and a weekly rest period would mean that youâve failed to take the required daily rest, which is another offence 
Not working the next shift would make no difference to these offences, an offence is an offence and can not be rectified by taking longer than necessary rest periods at a later date, I admit the idea does have itâs merits but itâs still not legal
If you want proof check the quote bellow, Iâve added a link to the regulations so you can see itâs not quoted out of context
You can then go back to your old employer and explain how theyâve been getting it wrong all this time 
Article 9.2 - (EC) 561/2006:
Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driverâs
home nor at the employerâs operational centre where the
driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
bunk or couchette.
I accept what you say, I merely reported what had happened over a long period of time WITH the knowledge of the relevant authorities.
As for going back and discussing this with my previous employer, Iâll give that a miss