To live to a decent standard in this country you need a certain amount of money. A lot of jobs will not provide this . In order for the so called entrepreneurs to continue to run their non businesses as that in effect is what they are as they cannot pay decent wages or provide a healthy and safe working environment in a lot of cases and to create the illusion of a successful economy the country is allowed to be flooded with labour that does not have the same view of a standard of living as the indigenous population hence the economic migrants that keep wages low, standards low and apparently we can do nothing about it as this is the benefit of being in the EU.
To allow the continuation of this scandal successive governments have marginalized and stigmatized certain groups like the disabled and so called benefit cheats while our frontiers remain open to all and sundry but mainly criminals and cheap labour.
We as the general populous/electorate have fallen for this national/international con trick hook line and sinker. The only reason Cameron is looking to try and change things is that finally they recognise that the indigenous population have had enough.When you get first generation immigrants from the 50’s and 60’s saying that the current system is wrong what does that tell you.
As for benefit cheats what a laugh ,if the system is so poorly managed that people can obtain money by outwitting the system surely it is the system that is at fault not the people.
amamdada:
As for benefit cheats what a laugh ,if the system is so poorly managed that people can obtain money by outwitting the system surely it is the system that is at fault not the people.
Dont agree with that philosophy. Just because the system can be conned,does not make it alright to do so. If a car is sitting with keys in the ignition some would say its the owners fault if it gets stolen for leaving the keys in. But just because its there and available,does not mean its ok to take it.
Precisely, and then the cost of the product would go up to cover that rise! So you would then be spending more at the till and any rise you had would get eaten up straight away! 
Truck driving has always been seen as 'unskilled, the job that years ago you drifted into when you left school with no qualifications and nobody else would employ you but the money was decent if you worked hard enough. The alternative was labouring on construction sites. Of course nowadays it costs you to get a license.
On BBC breakfast news a couple of weeks ago, during the run up to the election, they interviewed a woman who was part owner of a cakemaking business in Wales. The reporter asked her “What had most affected the economy for you?” and she replied “Bringing in the minimum wage, before then my workers were happy with whatever I paid them as it was better than nothing, now they expect the same every week and we have had to increase the product price to the customer to cover it, how is that helping the economy?” In a way I could see her point of view, rather Dickensien though!
Loved this post! So she’s saying I was quite happy treating my workers like s**t cos I was doing OK and other peoples tax would feed and heat them. Natural Tory voter there then! Amamdada is spot on describing these businesses as non businesses. Is it any different from the days we subsidised car manufacture or steel?
yea the cost of running a truck must be extortionate !!
i know a guy who is a HGV mechanic and he lives in a 4 bed detached house and his missus drives around in a brand new BMW X6 !!
and my neighbour who finds it funny because he is a train driver who normally works less hours than me and i am only part time !!
if only i could afford to move !! 
■■■■■■■:
chester:
hedg70:
Why do you hang around this forum like a bad smell constantly criticising us drivers? surely you have something better to do than keep posting on here “I am a good driver, but I wont work anymore because all the drivers are now stupid and full of self importance”You are annoyed about a person on the internet criticising drivers?
Although you think ALL drivers are stupid!It was a quote - not a personal opinion. Are you still busy looking down on everybody from your lofty social pedestal btw?
Why do you ask? Have you got a crick in your neck looking up! Iam no doctor but I hear a cold compress may aid you.
Truckulent:
Themoocher:
The problem isn’t just haulage.The whole country in any trades wages have stayed the same for the past 15-20 years.
Everyone is in the same boat struggling with wages and costs of living.I’m quite happy with what I get paid for the work I do.
Let’s be honest the average wages are
Tramping £500-600 in bank
Day £300 400 in bank
Nights. £350-450 in bankEverybody is paid roughly the . Same except the chosen few that are specialist jobs.
Everyone else is about the same^^^ I’ve seen jobs paying 13-14 quid an hour and jobs paying 7 quid an hour.
How is everyone paid the same? Sure, there are a lot more jobs at the lower end. But that still doesn’t mean all jobs are the same…
Most jobs I see paying above £10ph seem to have drivers working around 45 hours tops. The lower the hourly rate, the more seems to be expected of you & the more premiums, bonuses etc. are on offer. So drivers actual take home ends up rounding up about the same, just some are working more hours for it.
Frankly, in some jobs if you were restricted to 8-9 hour days you’d get naff all done. Especially where RDC’s are involved. These jobs should really be restricted to 3-4 day weeks though with a proper hourly rate paid.
I bank around £450 a week for Mon-Fri days but do about 55-60 hours for it. I’d much rather not work those hours but needs must financially as I don’t want weekends, 2am starts, nights or tramping. My last job paid over £10ph but I took home about £100 less & had to work weekends. It’s really difficult finding that balance between wages & hours in this game hence why long term I want to get out of it.
Themoocher:
mac12:
Sometimes what you get paid is not what you earn, if you claim benefits you could double NMW and companies know this. Why pay a high wage when you can let the government pay your staff there was something on tv a while back that one of the supermarkets staff got back in benefits 75% of the tax the supermarket paid. I would get nothing so have to work for a higher wage.This ■■■■■■ me off.
I don’t think these tax credits and child support [zb] is fair.
Me n my misses have no kids and have worked for the past 10 years full time.
We haven’t had one penny of the government and paid God knows how much tax over the years.I use to move around in the army.
When we first got a new post my misses didn’t have once for 6 weeks and we still weren’t entilited to one penny.
Yet people have kids through choice.
They never work and get everything paid for.
I just don’t see how it’s fair
Yes people have kids through choice, but if nobody had kids there would be not be anyone to look after us when we get old
The-Snowman:
htmldude:
I know there’s gonna be the whole “foreigners stealing our jobs” thing but should anyone work for money that bad?Yep,its inevitable that debate will start at some point. Probably when Carryfast logs on
Also we have desypetes usual DCPC rant to look forward to as well
now you happen to mention the cpc i would of thought you lot with the cpc mug card would be on more money these days, i have been keeping an eye on things and if anything the money has fallen in some parts
but its still not enough to temp me back to driving
the pay should be at least 20 quid an hour these days not even the tanker drivers are getting that anymore or there are one or 2 firms that do pay that but as for the other stuff, its still from 8 to 11 quid an hour
some firms are paying a bit of overtime but they change the hours again for which you can start earning it like 10 hours a day then overtime
but you lot had your chance with the cpc card came in to make a stand, all you had to do was not get a cpc card and the whole of transport would of come to a halt, which in turn would stop the whole country producing
so enjoy the low wages and long hours, it was a great job 15 years ago and i was earning over 700 quid a week back then with no bosses on your back, no tracking, no health and safty bollox and you could smoke in the cabs and have a laugh with other drivers at transport cafes all over the place
today its rush rush rush, grass up drivers, and sit in services paying out even more of your low hourly pay
if only the drivers made a stand when the cpc was being forced on us
oh well it didnt happen so enjoy
alder:
We are probably worth a lot less. Look at the facts:Government floods the UK with very cheap labour
Every time there is a cut in Staff by MOD they issue a HGV licence (cheap and easy “we have retrained you for civvy street”)
Fireman, Policeman, Ambulance drivers and toilet attendants do HGV to supplement their wages/pensions
Age lowered to 18
Females now having a go
Trucks much easier to drive; Automatic an far less complicated (no splitters or technical knowledge required)
No roping and sheeting in most cases
Sat navs eliminate need to know the road networkIn essence a child could drive the trucks today and they probably would if the electric vehicles were not on the way. Soon the whole show will be fully automated and we can all move over to the “OLD TIME LORRIES, COMPANIES AND DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)” thread.
Whereas, in the ‘good old days’… what? The above categories of people couldn’t have done the job? Absolute bulls@@t mate. FYI, some of us are perfectly able to read maps, drive manuals, and can rope & sheet - if it were still necessary. But I could always succumb to an attitude of little self-worth, imagining I’m too stupid to be anything other than an LGV driver because the job’s got updated since the 50s. I’m proud of myself for doing the job I do - and I certainly don’t think just anyone could do it. Although to be fair you obviously don’t have to be a condescending ■■■■ unless you want to.
My last job was long hours and quite unsocial, upto 5 nights out too. I was earning around 32k.
I left there for less hours , more sociable and less or no nights out. That came to 25k.
The other week, i was offered my old job back. i could do with the money atm, and told my present boss. i explained, for the work and hours i do, my pay was reasonable, but ive got bills to pay. he cant get decent drivers at the mo, so he upped my pay to 32k
not all employers are bad
Face:
alder:
We are probably worth a lot less. Look at the facts:Government floods the UK with very cheap labour
Every time there is a cut in Staff by MOD they issue a HGV licence (cheap and easy “we have retrained you for civvy street”)
Fireman, Policeman, Ambulance drivers and toilet attendants do HGV to supplement their wages/pensions
Age lowered to 18
Females now having a go
Trucks much easier to drive; Automatic an far less complicated (no splitters or technical knowledge required)
No roping and sheeting in most cases
Sat navs eliminate need to know the road networkIn essence a child could drive the trucks today and they probably would if the electric vehicles were not on the way. Soon the whole show will be fully automated and we can all move over to the “OLD TIME LORRIES, COMPANIES AND DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)” thread.
Whereas, in the ‘good old days’… what? The above categories of people couldn’t have done the job? Absolute bulls@@t mate. FYI, some of us are perfectly able to read maps, drive manuals, and can rope & sheet - if it were still necessary. But I could always succumb to an attitude of little self-worth, imagining I’m too stupid to be anything other than an LGV driver because the job’s got updated since the 50s. I’m proud of myself for doing the job I do - and I certainly don’t think just anyone could do it. Although to be fair you obviously don’t have to be a condescending ■■■■ unless you want to.
Obviously hit a nerve. I can definitely tell you that drivers were on more money then compared to now. There has been a massive increase in trucks on the road and it is slower to deliver because of the sheer volume of traffic. There is definitely a lot more economic migrants driving trucks and running the RDCs and distribution centres than 30 years but I am just saying that there will never be a shortage of drivers in this economic climate where labour is in abundance and dirt cheap. Unions have also fallen by the wayside 
.
I can definitely tell you that drivers were on more money then compared to now
I would like to see a graph or chart showing where HGV drivers fall in the national wage structure in comparison to other jobs but i suspect the above is true. certainly in the dim and distant past I always seemed to have plenty dosh left after paying mortgages etc.
I don’t actually agree with that ^^^^^ as I have way more disposable income now than at any other time. That includes a mortgage and a property I currently rent.
del949:
I can definitely tell you that drivers were on more money then compared to now
I would like to see a graph or chart showing where HGV drivers fall in the national wage structure in comparison to other jobs but i suspect the above is true. certainly in the dim and distant past I always seemed to have plenty dosh left after paying mortgages etc.
18 years ago i was doing fridge work, my rate was £ 7.25 ph overtime after 8 hours at time and a half, saturday was time and half all day and sunday was double time, i was making over 700 quid a week that was just for fridge work, no nights out all night work, parked up most of the time sleeping waiting to get on a bay
in those days if you had asda wigan for example you would be sent there very early so you could get your place in the que as it never used to open its gates unitl 6 or 7 am so you would be parked up at about midnight waiting to get in and most of the work was like that decent money and easy work
night trunking was just long distance runs with a trailer dropping and swapping and back to base.
now its all rush rush rush, being a night man is no different than a day man as the rdc places are open 24 / 7 dont know if anyone does any more long distance trunk work anymore on nights ?
so your rushing around, and how much money are the drivers on these days compared to the rates years ago ? most dont get any sort of overtime after 8 hours, many are on salarys for get no more if they get stuck and put more hours in etc
drivers today in my mind to match the wages i was on should be on over a grand a week at least
so the wages are down but its not so much wages its the cost of living as well that has gone up since 18 years ago which makes the gap in money even bigger, so if you can earn 700 quid a week these days what is it worth 18 years ago ?
the new drivers can only compare 6 or 700 quid a week wages, to work that they might get in mcdonalds or other low pay places so to them it seems like there on a good wage. they have to rush around etc but still see it as a good thing in there minds simply because they were not around 20 odd years ago
if the money and condtions were that good all the old school drivers would of still been doing the job, but over the last few years many have given it up as its really just not the same anymore, i dont like the new drivers as they all seem to be stuck up there own arses full of political correct nonsense and they seem to love the health and safety bollox that goes hand in hand with the job today
for example
i remember a creep at walkers who is or was a chief trainer there, he was having ■■■■■■■ over the docking bay system they use and how there leading the world in health and safety
you have to disconnect your red airline put a lock on it that needs a key you get from a bay then have the trailer brake on and put the key somewhere. and hit a button, as well as shove the keys some where ■■
fffffuking hell you need an o level in hi tech to get to unload in there place just total bollox and the teacher is a moron as i could feel his passion and excitement as he thinks its all wonderful
anyway just another of my pet hates i thought i would have a rant about lol
but the fact is the money in the game is nothing like it should really be these days but while they keep on finding drivers to do the job for the low money then nothing is going to change, there are plenty of people now all trying to get there hgv as they believe there is good money to be made lol
‘…I don’t like all the new drivers they’re all stuck up their own arse…’
Interesting quote Pete. You need to add a little humour though chief.
Bitterness is unattractive.
desypete:
18 years ago i was doing fridge work, my rate was £ 7.25 ph overtime after 8 hours at time and a half, saturday was time and half all day and sunday was double time, i was making over 700 quid a week that was just for fridge work, no nights out all night work, parked up most of the time sleeping waiting to get on a bayin those days if you had asda wigan for example you would be sent there very early so you could get your place in the que as it never used to open its gates unitl 6 or 7 am so you would be parked up at about midnight waiting to get in and most of the work was like that decent money and easy work
If your basic rate was £7.25ph god knows how much overtime & weekend working you were doing to take home 700 quid. Doesn’t sound particularly different to what drivers suffer these days.
Also, whats the business sense in queueing up outside a drop 6 hours before it opens? Surely you’d be in & out quicker if everyone just turned up on time and joined a moving queue. No wonder things aren’t like they were… Some drivers seem to expect to be paid a fortune for sleeping all day Maybe chaps like yourself ■■■■ taking & tossing it off in the past are the reason many gaffers now install trackers & encourage planners to push…
I am really frustrated at the moment. I have been driving HGV class 1 ADR Fuel tankers (full CPC, Full PDP, full ADR…all paid for by myself) for some months now through an agency I have known and worked with (in between other jobs) for a number of years. Was told to go through an Umbrella Company…first of all, I thought, Great, i can offset my travel & subsistence costs against tax…then I realised that I pay Employers N.I. plus Employees N.I. plus a ‘margin’ to the Umbrella Company …which brought my £10.50 p/h down to £8.50 and if I want ‘paid holidays’, I have to deduct and save some money each week for that eventuality!! After, I’d worked at it for 15 weeks (was told it was ‘temp to perm’ but that was rescinded)and I spoke to my union, Unite, about AWR (after 12 weeks of doing the same job, with the same firm for 12 weeks plus, you are entitled to the same conditions as if you’ve been employed directly by them)…they Googled it■■? And agreed with me. I contacted both the Umbrella Company and the Agency and was told that they can opt out of AWR (Agency workers Regulations) because of a clause in my contract that is ‘Swedish Derogation’■■? Unite know nothing of this…and care even less (only seem interested in negotiating with large companies/large workforces). Anyone else had trouble with 1/ Agencies (not like they used to be?), 2/ Umbrella Companies (Boom business…Why■■?) and 3/ ‘Swedish Derogation Contracts’■■?
I gave up a 30k per year teaching job to drive lorries. My target was to earn the same wage within 24 months. I did it in less than 18! I started off driving artics for just over minimum wage and thought I’d made a big mistake. But I realised those types of jobs are for new drivers and idiots who can’t keep a job elsewhere.
IMO the wage I get is fair for the job I do (night trunking approx 50 hours/week), but of course I’d be happy with an increase.
As one guy said to me as he retired, “doesn’t matter how bad you think things are now, you’ll always look back on these as the good old days”.
Sorry for waffling, just getting a bit bored on my 45.
Captain Caveman 76:
I gave up a 30k per year teaching job to drive lorries. My target was to earn the same wage within 24 months. I did it in less than 18! I started off driving artics for just over minimum wage and thought I’d made a big mistake. But I realised those types of jobs are for new drivers and idiots who can’t keep a job elsewhere.
IMO the wage I get is fair for the job I do (night trunking approx 50 hours/week), but of course I’d be happy with an increase.
As one guy said to me as he retired, “doesn’t matter how bad you think things are now, you’ll always look back on these as the good old days”.
Sorry for waffling, just getting a bit bored on my 45.
Hardly a waffle, I’ve seen catering size waffles on here in comparison