Is it time to Nationalise Road Transport......Again?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OLD TIME LORRIES, COMPANIES AND DRIVERS (INTERACT
41

[zb]
anorak:

Carryfast:
Or conformist automatons working towards the greater societal good as ordered by their great leader.So who’s calling who a Communist now. :unamused:

No surprise whose side you’ll be on when the master race come marching up the Mall ordering those who refuse to conform into slavery doing 16 hours + a day for a bowl of rice if they’re lucky.

youtube.com/watch?v=_po3bBqbsv8

Thanks for the Chinese Army recruitment video. They look like a well-scrubbed bunch. What has it got to do with the text of your post?

Obviously your non rebellious outlook during your school days didn’t teach you the meaning of ‘conformist’ or ‘automaton’ which is what makes the Communist control freak outlook like yours so dangerous.Which is ironic considering that many of those union members who you’re so enthusiastic about branding as raving commies,like me,had exactly the opposite to that outlook.You can bet if I was a parent I certainly wouldn’t want my kids educated under your type of totalitarian dictatorial system.My advice is if you like China so much then zb off and live there.

42

Carryfast:

[zb]
anorak:

Carryfast:
Or conformist automatons working towards the greater societal good as ordered by their great leader.So who’s calling who a Communist now. :unamused:

No surprise whose side you’ll be on when the master race come marching up the Mall ordering those who refuse to conform into slavery doing 16 hours + a day for a bowl of rice if they’re lucky.

youtube.com/watch?v=_po3bBqbsv8

Thanks for the Chinese Army recruitment video. They look like a well-scrubbed bunch. What has it got to do with the text of your post?

Obviously your non rebellious outlook during your school days didn’t teach you the meaning of ‘conformist’ or ‘automaton’ which is what makes the Communist control freak outlook like yours so dangerous.Which is ironic considering that many of those union members who you’re so enthusiastic about branding as raving commies,like me,had exactly the opposite to that outlook.You can bet if I was a parent I certainly wouldn’t want my kids educated under your type of totalitarian dictatorial system.My advice is if you like China so much then zb off and live there.

I bet there is not one Chinaman who moans about his circumstances more than you.

43

Carryfast:

Wheel Nut:
Going back to the original responses, would we really allow someone onto the motorway with no speed limiter, no way of checking how many hours he had worked and to have even bigger vehicles, how is that going to create a level playing field?

Ironically it seemed to work just fine not so long ago and still does for those who moved across the Atlantic.But you forgot the issue of removal of road fuel taxation to make best use of the increased fuel efficiency.

Get back in your box, where does the money come from for your medication, if not from fuel tax?. And your not so long ago, do you mean pre Margaret or Pre Tony?

Isn’t it America who are now using Japanese cars, or at least they are the 5 top selling vehicles in the USA, with the electric Prius sitting at number 10. The German manufacturers are way down at the bottom of the list.

44

Wheel Nut:

Carryfast:

Wheel Nut:
Going back to the original responses, would we really allow someone onto the motorway with no speed limiter, no way of checking how many hours he had worked and to have even bigger vehicles, how is that going to create a level playing field?

Ironically it seemed to work just fine not so long ago and still does for those who moved across the Atlantic.But you forgot the issue of removal of road fuel taxation to make best use of the increased fuel efficiency.

Get back in your box, where does the money come from for your medication, if not from fuel tax?. And your not so long ago, do you mean pre Margaret or Pre Tony?

Isn’t it America who are now using Japanese cars, or at least they are the 5 top selling vehicles in the USA, with the electric Prius sitting at number 10. The German manufacturers are way down at the bottom of the list.

You should start taking notice of the news more.The tax take from road fuel is falling because no one can afford to use enough of the stuff and it’s better to close down a haulage firm than to burn the fuel needed to shift the freight at a loss and the more the cost of fuel increases the less they sell and the more haulage firms close down and the less money the NHS gets.

As for the Americans.I think you haven’t realised that it’s now a fully paid up member of the global free market economy so Americans can’t afford to buy or run American cars now.As for Japan it’s just a matter of time until the Chinese take the place over in which case those Jap car workers will have to work even harder for less money assuming they don’t just get paid in rice.In which case that would be the only good thing to come out of the global free market economy. :unamused:

45

Carryfast:
You should start taking notice of the news more.The tax take from road fuel is falling because no one can afford to use enough of the stuff and it’s better to close down a haulage firm than to burn the fuel needed to shift the freight at a loss and the more the cost of fuel increases the less they sell and the more haulage firms close down and the less money the NHS gets.

As for the Americans.I think you haven’t realised that it’s now a fully paid up member of the global free market economy so Americans can’t afford to buy or run American cars now.As for Japan it’s just a matter of time until the Chinese take the place over in which case those Jap car workers will have to work even harder for less money assuming they don’t just get paid in rice.In which case that would be the only good thing to come out of the global free market economy. :unamused:

You could sell this to a comedian. Al Murray the Pub Landlord, for instance, would bring the house down with it. Alternatively, Stewart Lee could read it off a piece of paper, to demonstrate sarcastically show socialism and nationalism are so seamlessly joined together by nutcases like Hitler.

46

[zb]
anorak:

Carryfast:
You should start taking notice of the news more.The tax take from road fuel is falling because no one can afford to use enough of the stuff and it’s better to close down a haulage firm than to burn the fuel needed to shift the freight at a loss and the more the cost of fuel increases the less they sell and the more haulage firms close down and the less money the NHS gets.

As for the Americans.I think you haven’t realised that it’s now a fully paid up member of the global free market economy so Americans can’t afford to buy or run American cars now.As for Japan it’s just a matter of time until the Chinese take the place over in which case those Jap car workers will have to work even harder for less money assuming they don’t just get paid in rice.In which case that would be the only good thing to come out of the global free market economy. :unamused:

You could sell this to a comedian. Al Murray the Pub Landlord, for instance, would bring the house down with it. Alternatively, Stewart Lee could read it off a piece of paper, to demonstrate sarcastically show socialism and nationalism are so seamlessly joined together by nutcases like Hitler.

The thing that socialism/communism/national socialism and their leadership and followers all have in common are your ideas concerning an unquestioning,conformist,indoctrinated population willing to be led like sheep from cradle to grave in following the bs cause.

47

Could also be the fact with one or two exceptions most of the cars out of detroit in the last 30 years are junk.

48

First of all get rid of any company that has logistics in the title.

As it was mentioned at the start before it became a ramble form Leatherhead, Nationalized road Transport didn’t work the first time round.
Times are different with different players and attitudes, but the game is still the same; getting the goods from one place to another with the best outcome for all involved.

So right from the start it’s not going to work, the haulage industry wants to make a profit and the customer wants it done for as little as possible, which is a bit of a conflict of interests.

Many years ago I had a conversation with a woman that was studying economics at uni and she had the theory that road haulage should be run on a not for profit basis. I informed her that for a fair chunk of the industry that was how it already was and it wasn’t their choice. Unfortunately she graduated uni, rose through the ranks and later became an economic adviser for various British governments, I can only hope that at some stage she changed her attitude a bit , although by the looks of things she didn’t.

There are various countries to the north and east of Britain that who had the attitude that the government, truck manufacturers, and haulage companies should sit down together and sort out the best way to go about sorting things out, after all who better to ask than the people that are actually involved. What was the best and most economic way to transport the goods of their countries? The size and type of vehicles? The roads and infrastructure required to operate those vehicle safely? What is the minimum rate required that the haulage operators need to get so that they can meet the costs required to operate inside the law and stay solvent?
Not only did they talk about it they actually got of their bum and did something about it.
For many years those countries did a lot better than the countries that didn’t have the same attitude, and they seem to have fared a lot better in the last economic crisis than the countries in southern and western Europe. I’m not saying they managed it purely because they had their haulage system sorted out, but their whole attitude towards things is different to the UK.
And before someone comes along throwing all types of things in the pot, Yes I know some of those countries have other large scale problems to deal with, but this forum is for transport and not social situations.

Would some of those ideas work in the UK?
It would be nice to think so, but there are some many companies who would be starting from different place, some open minded and other looking after their own interests, back stabbing, double dealing… Oh look we’re back where we started.

Jeff…

49

Looking at carryfasts rabid rantings, he is obviously way off course from the subject matter and probably off course on life altogether!

50

Wheel Nut:
I believe the only thing that could be nationalised is the railway network, not the trains, staff or stations. I certainly do not want to see a nationalised road haulage industry, although I would like the transport industry to grow some ■■■■■■■■ and put someone in charge from within it, to be the minister in charge. The government seem to pick the last wet lettuce out of the bargain bin when it comes to giving that post away.

No industry will ever be able to operate efficiently under any government in the forseeable future.
Why?
Tell me of ANY politician that has ever done a days work,let alone being involved with the industry they are given the responsibility of.
How can some wet politician be a defence minister when no politician in recent memory has ever been in the forces.
Who can remember when Barbara Castle was Transport Minister,who didn’t even have a ■■■■■■■ driving licence!

51

Jelliot:
First of all get rid of any company that has logistics in the title.

As it was mentioned at the start before it became a ramble form Leatherhead, Nationalized road Transport didn’t work the first time round.
Times are different with different players and attitudes, but the game is still the same; getting the goods from one place to another with the best outcome for all involved.

So right from the start it’s not going to work, the haulage industry wants to make a profit and the customer ants it done for as little as possible, which is a bit of a conflict of interests.

Many years ago I had a conversation with a woman the was studying economics at uni and she had the theory that road haulage should be run on a not for profit basis. I informed her that for a fair chunk of the industry that was how it already was and it wasn’t their choice. Unfortunately she graduated uni rose through the ranks and later became an economic adviser for various British governments, I can only hope that at some stage she changed her attitude a bit , although by the looks of things she didn’t.

There are various countries to the north and east of Britain that who had the attitude that the government, truck manufacturers, and haulage companies should sit down together and sort out the best way to go about sorting things out, after all who better to ask than the people that are actually involved. What was the best and most economic way to transport the good of their countries? The size and type of vehicles? The roads and infrastructure required to operate those vehicle safely? What is the minimum rate required that the haulage operators need to get so that they can meet the costs required to operate inside the law and stay solvent?
Not only did they talk about it they actually got of the bum and did something about it.
For many years those countries did a lot better than the countries that didn’t have the same attitude, and they seem to have fared a lot better in the last economic crisis than the countries in southern and western Europe. I’m not saying they managed it purely because they had their haulage system sorted out, but their whole attitude towards thing is different to the UK.
And before someone comes along throwing all types of things in the pot, Yes I know some of those countries have other large scale problems to deal with, but this forum is for transport and not social situations.

Would some of those ideas work in the UK?
It would be nice to thing so, but there are some many companies who would be starting from different place, some open minded and other looking after their own interests, back stabbing, double dealing… Oh look we’re back where we started.

Jeff…

The rambling in this case all originating from our resident dictator zb anorak.

So where’s the big difference in what you’re saying being that North and East of us means Scandinavia and what I’ve said.IE allowing the use of LHV’s and government ‘involvement’ in setting rates and removing the road fuel taxation that’s crippling the industry ( IE nationalisation in all but name ).As for the removal of speed limiters and tachographs that can only help drivers in the case of not running out of hours before the day is finished and finding somewhere safe to park up when it has. :unamused:

52

The problem with tachos in gb is not that we cant drive enough its lack of parking especaly in the south east.
Driving in the UK for 9 or 10 hours is far more tiring than a 11 or 13 hour day in the usa or Canada as you will only encounter traffic if you hit one of the big citys.

53

Carryfast:
The rambling in this case all originating from our resident dictator zb anorak.

Hahaha. What is a dictator?

54

So that’s a No then?

55

I thought we were talking about Nationalization not tachographs, but seeing as you mention it…

■■■■■■■ stupid ■■■■■■■ things, and the dumb a$$ rules that go with them. When I started my driving career in the UK in the very early 80’s tacos were already in so I had no choice but to use them and many the time I was forced to take a brake when I didn’t need on, and vise versa. After doing a bit of Euro driving and having to take a 24 hour brake for a short weekend, it was the most dumb thing I have ever had to do, ( driving wise )the person that invented that should be shot in the head very slowly. You stop have a sleep because you are at the end of your shift, 8-9 hours later you wake up refreshed so you hang about, dust out your truck, have a drink with your mates, or what ever you do to pas the time. By the end of your day your rested and ready for bed, but no, the ■■■■■■■ in Brussels that doesn’t even know what end of a truck is front or back has decided that now is the time for you to get going again. And your boss knows that as well so you expected to preform. 24 hours off ■■? and you can bet they had a panel of experts sitting round for a long time getting paid a fortune to come up with that little nugget of wisdom.

Yes I would agree that there has to be some kind of rules as to how long a person can drive, but we are all individuals with different requirements. And there has to be some kind of guide lines based on common sense otherwise there would be a bunch of operators who would expect their drivers to go night and day, and as they say “rules are for fools” . ( If it wasn’t for a few taking the pi$$ then common sense would be good enough ) , but seemingly not.

Now having said that it would seem that truck driver are more important the doctors, the government has gone to grate lengths to stick their ore in and enforce all kinds of meddling devices, but doctors can and often do work up to 40 hours at a time. SURLY! SURLY! the decisions that doctors have to make are more important that if a truck driver wants an extra ten minutes more so he/she can get home.

I now live a country that runs log books, yes we have policing on the transport industry, I even have a speed limiter on the trucks that I drive, but they are set at 110 kph. Some times I drive on the limiter, as and when I get the opportunity, but common sense tells me when it’s appropriate to do so. On major routes there are Safety Cameras, every 100 k’s or so, they record the time your truck has passed them and feed the date into a central computer. If you pass one at 1 pm, then the next at quarter to 2 then obviously you’ve been speeding a bit so you get a ticket, and you also have to had your log book in to the RTA so they an check against it, just to make sure it was you in your truck, ( believe it or not some of them have been found to be faulty).

The system was given the go ahead by both the government and the road haulage industry ,and when things need upgrading both parties get together and discuss it. I’m not making this out to be road haulage utopia because its not, and there are problems in the system, but because both parties are involved, and not just a dictating government it seems to work better.

Now on the point that MR Booties made about politicians being not having the right back ground…

A few years ago I was doing a renovation on my house and the rules state that I wasn’t allowed to do certain aspects of the plumbing and had to get a certificated trades person in to do it, bit of a bummer, but reasonably sensible. I looked through the phone book and found a bloke who a turned up a couple of days late with out explanation or apology and did the job.

The lad was a bit of local sports celebrity, and if it wasn’t for the fact that most of his job involved physical ability, rather than scribal involvement then it would have been a none starter. However he was fairly pleasant, reasonably polite,( even if he still didn’t apoligise for being 2 days late ) and in the main, managed his task.

Being a sports celeb the made some good contacts, traveled in the elite circle and a few years late married the local senators daughter, and at the next election they ran him as a candidate.

( According to my wife he has a nice smile and takes a good photo )

He won the seat and the next thing you know he’s the F&*)(*g justice minister for the state on $210,000 a year. Has some one found a way to deposit large amounts of gray matter or even do brain transplant ■■ cause this this guy not only didn’t have any kind of experience in the field but his plumbers spanner had a higher IQ then he did. Minister for arts was the local bakers wife, who was president of the local WRI, so at least she a had a bit of leadership qualifications. I suppose if the economy goes down the tube at least she can organize a bake and craft sale.

If these are the people that are making policy then no wonder the place is going down the pan.

When I was looking at the recent catalog of studies from the local uni I noticed that they did a course in political science. I would imagine they would be punting out 12 to 20 students a year. So where the hell are these people going when it’s down to the local half wit plumber ( with a nice smile) and bakers wife to run the state and country ■■?

AND at the moment our Prime Minister is a bloke called Tony Abbot, he has a back bencher who he used to be mates with who is called Peter Costello, between them they call all the big decision.

Yes that’s right Australia is being run by Abbot and Costello.

I better go and have some kind of pill or something…

Jeff…