Insecure load? REALLY?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
81

stevieboy308:

robroy:
Cop out? :laughing:
Go on then, I’ll indulge you.
In charge of road safety…
Make the training at grass roots harder, so a licence had to be earned by actually learning how to DRIVE a truck rather than just handed out after being taught only how to pass a test.
Included in the training syllabus would be old style values like empathy and courtesy to other truck drivers, and to other road users,.along with lessons on route planning and (shock horror) not using sat nav, different types of loads and trailers, low bridge risks, and yeh…load security.
A bit like an apprenticeship if you like, but not the type such as Stobbies, by name only to receive a government grant either. :bulb:

A refresher after a year of passing, up to 5 years then every 5 years after that initial annual refresher, with a ‘‘one strike and out’’ policy on licences in first 2 years after passing test if offence deemed dangerous or downright negligent.

That would be more value than the dcpc dog [zb], then in theory it would be a ‘‘Sort out the cause of the disease’’ and the present after effects of that disease (ie.■■■■ poor pathetic excuses for truck drivers) should virtually disappear.

How’s that for you…and so I don’t ‘‘Cop out’’ in your eyes on the others…
Lottery…go mad spending till it hurt.
Newcastle Utd…maybe die of shock.
Holly Willoughby…as above.
Cheers.

Most of that sounds good to me, but I do think it makes sense to have using a sat nav as part of it, as that’s the real world they’re gonna by driving in.

But you’re not saying it for gonna have something similar to what we have now, where everything needs to be strapped or a positive fit in an XL rated trailer or are you having no rules?

And that takes us back to square 1, and the other point made by Goldtank…A good pro driver knows to what extent different types of loads need, but those who think they know better say EVERY load should be secured to maximum standard, so now we have the ridiculous situation wherby we need to strap pallets of cardboard to within an inch of the load’s life.
As for sat navs, it’s like learning to run before walking, a better grounding training where the route is found by the driver first would be better training at first imo, then crack on with the sat nav.

82

robroy:
And that takes us back to square 1, and the other point made by Goldtank…A good pro driver knows to what extent different types of loads need, but those who think they know better say EVERY load should be secured to maximum standard, so now we have the ridiculous situation wherby we need to strap pallets of cardboard to within an inch of the load’s life.
As for sat navs, it’s like learning to run before walking, a better grounding training where the route is found by the driver first would be better training at first imo, then crack on with the sat nav.

Very well said.

83

But it’s not that easy and you know it, as the question avoidance!

You’re incharge, is your rule it’s upto the driver or is it something similar to what we have now?

84

And I’m sure the cardboard to an inch of its life was tongue in cheek, but…! In an XL rated trailer, then a full load won’t need any straps and on a bog standard curtain sider, it’ll more than likely be fine with internals. So it’s not as bad as some would have you believe

85

stevieboy308:
And I’m sure the cardboard to an inch of its life was tongue in cheek, but…! In an XL rated trailer, then a full load won’t need any straps and on a bog standard curtain sider, it’ll more than likely be fine with internals. So it’s not as bad as some would have you believe

Alleyluya!!..You’ve just proved my point.
If a driver knows what he’s doing, (I’m assuming that includes you btw :laughing: ) then he is capable of deciding how where and when a certain load type should be strapped,.and to what extent. :bulb: :bulb: :bulb:

So if you still think I’ve avoided your question…you’ve answered it for me.

86

stevieboy308:

Goldentanks:

peterm:
We used to do steel wire from Low Moor at Bradford to London on flats. Sheeted and roped on every hook. Would some of you say ‘Not worth sheets and ropes, I’ll drive to the load?’ What about double stacked pallets of glass (bottles) for Optrex, Cross & Blackwell etc? I could go on but I’ve made my point for most people.

There you go, ropes and sheets were once considered adequate and did the job perfectly well. What changed? I’ll tell you what changed, the driver and his attitude, skills, abilities, common sense, size of balls. Today’s drivers don’t know [zb]. Throw them a rope and they will think you want them to hang themselves. I would still prefer a rope to a ratchet strap personally but what would I know.

What changed was curtain siders got invented.

I can’t rope and sheet, I don’t mind admitting that, do I feel inferior or inadequate? Na

I wasn’t meaning that anyone was inadequate or inferior because they can’t use sheets and ropes. I’m talking about not securing things so they can’t fall off. Someone said they carted paper reels, stood up without straps. Would you have done that with an ordinary flat body? I’ve carted paper reels laid down with chocks nailed into the floor, But they were sheeted and roped as well. Would you have not bothered to secure them on a flat?
Like I said, I wasn’t trying to say people were stupid or anything else because they can’t rope and sheet. I was trying to point out the fact that if you’d secure a load properly with a flat, why wouldn’t you do the same with a curtain sider?

87

robroy:

stevieboy308:
And I’m sure the cardboard to an inch of its life was tongue in cheek, but…! In an XL rated trailer, then a full load won’t need any straps and on a bog standard curtain sider, it’ll more than likely be fine with internals. So it’s not as bad as some would have you believe

Alleyluya!!..You’ve just proved my point.
If a driver knows what he’s doing, (I’m assuming that includes you btw :laughing: ) then he is capable of deciding how where and when a certain load type should be strapped,.and to what extent. :bulb: :bulb: :bulb:

So if you still think I’ve avoided your question…you’ve answered it for me.

Maybe I’m being thick? But to me you’re still avoiding the question, so if you’re not, you’re gonna have to spell it out for me,

You’re in charge, do you have something similar to what we have now, which is any load that’s a positive fit in an XL rated trailer doesn’t require any strapping, everything else needs strapping, internals are ok for pallets up to 400kg. Or do you have no rules or requirements?

I fully understand why you’re avoiding answering the question, it’s obvious!!

88

While I am not condoning what has happened here, 1 ■■■■■■■■ each pallet is not going to hold the load to the bed. As has been said, they look like machine/foundry parts, which even when stacked, would mean you would need a ■■■■■■■■ every part on the pallet to stop them all from moving. I suppose only a net over the pallet MAY prevent the parts coming out of the side in the event of an accident. Maybe a little overkill on the police officers behalf.

My brother in law, who is an ex traffic cop, said that sometimes a word in the ear is more powerful than getting the numbers up.

Ken.

89

stevieboy308:

robroy:

stevieboy308:
And I’m sure the cardboard to an inch of its life was tongue in cheek, but…! In an XL rated trailer, then a full load won’t need any straps and on a bog standard curtain sider, it’ll more than likely be fine with internals. So it’s not as bad as some would have you believe

Alleyluya!!..You’ve just proved my point.
If a driver knows what he’s doing, (I’m assuming that includes you btw :laughing: ) then he is capable of deciding how where and when a certain load type should be strapped,.and to what extent. :bulb: :bulb: :bulb:

So if you still think I’ve avoided your question…you’ve answered it for me.

Maybe I’m being thick? But to me you’re still avoiding the question, so if you’re not, you’re gonna have to spell it out for me,

You’re in charge, do you have something similar to what we have now, which is any load that’s a positive fit in an XL rated trailer doesn’t require any strapping, everything else needs strapping, internals are ok for pallets up to 400kg. Or do you have no rules or requirements?

I fully understand why you’re avoiding answering the question, it’s obvious!!

:open_mouth:…Now I know you’re taking the ■■■■ :laughing: , is it to get a certain number of pages on the thread or to see how many times you can get me to answer the same question??..tactic being every time I do.you continually accuse me of avoiding it.
Either way this is my final answer…are you sitting comfortably??

After my new very sucessful, very efficient, new style apprenticeship training scheme came in, and I won my award for cleaning up the UK Road Transport Industry from guest Alan Shearer, , after arriving there in my Aston Martin, after picking up Holly… :blush: Sorry I was getting a bit carried away there :blush: ., See the effect you’re having on me? :open_mouth:

I would then bring in my new load security laws for the new style very efficient and professional 2022 ‘‘LGV specialist tech driver’’ (just go with it ok?, it would take a couple of years)
So…
Every pro driver would weigh up every situation individually, ie…

Weght of load, nature of load, size of load, type of load.

Then, what type of trailer, and what type of restraint to use, straps, chains, rope, chocks, internals, protectors and all of that type of paraphenalia.

Then, What strain capacity each restraint was, and which, and how many restraints were needed, and all the same or different types used concurrentlly.

Then if pulled by VOSA argue the toss …and go to court if necessary safe in the knowledge that you are in the right, the load IS secure…because you aint some useless 2at who has no idea how to do the job properly on his own initiative.

Hang on a minute, a lightbulb moment.:bulb: :bulb: …I’ve just described what me and many other drivers (with a brain they are able to use without being told by somebody how to) has done for the last 30 odd years. :bulb:

So…Have you ‘‘cottoned on’’ this time Stevie me old mate, because I’ve answered your question concisely (again) so if you are going to say I avoided it, copped out, know why, or any other tactic…that’s your prerogative and my last word.
:wink: :smiley:

Why do I feel like I’ve just been to the dentist. :neutral_face:

90

robroy:

stevieboy308:
Maybe I’m being thick? But to me you’re still avoiding the question, so if you’re not, you’re gonna have to spell it out for me,

You’re in charge, do you have something similar to what we have now, which is any load that’s a positive fit in an XL rated trailer doesn’t require any strapping, everything else needs strapping, internals are ok for pallets up to 400kg. Or do you have no rules or requirements?

I fully understand why you’re avoiding answering the question, it’s obvious!!

Either way this is my final answer…are you sitting comfortably??

I would then bring in my new load security laws for the new style very efficient and professional 2022 ‘‘LGV specialist tech driver’’ (just go with it ok?, it would take a couple of years)
So…
Every pro driver would weigh up every situation individually, ie…

Weght of load, nature of load, size of load, type of load.

Then, what type of trailer, and what type of restraint to use, straps, chains, rope, chocks, internals, protectors and all of that type of paraphenalia.

Then, What strain capacity each restraint was, and which, and how many restraints were needed, and all the same or different types used concurrentlly.

Then if pulled by VOSA argue the toss …and go to court if necessary safe in the knowledge that you are in the right, the load IS secure…because you aint some useless 2at who has no idea how to do the job properly on his own initiative.

Hang on a minute, a lightbulb moment.:bulb: :bulb: …I’ve just described what me and many other drivers (with a brain they are able to use without being told by somebody how to) has done for the last 30 odd years. :bulb:

So…Have you ‘‘cottoned on’’ this time Stevie me old mate, because I’ve answered your question concisely (again) so if you are going to say I avoided it, copped out, know why, or any other tactic…that’s your prerogative and my last word.
:wink: :smiley:

Why do I feel like I’ve just been to the dentist. :neutral_face:

Which makes the scene in the photo that started the topic ok and not insecure load muppetry how ?.

Anyway as a retired hopefully pro truck driver I’ve ‘weighed up the situation’ in this case and I’ve decided to leave the job where it is and take the wagon back to the yard and ask the guvnor for it to be fitted with rope hooks and to give me some decent bits of rope.While at the same time asking the customer to put the offending components where they belong in stillages.When all that’s been done I’d do the job ( if I wasn’t retired ). :wink:

91

But exactly, your no rules, it’s down to opinion, I say it’s fine, dvsa in London say it’s fine, get stopped in Manchester, they say it’s not fine, elect court, one judge would say it’s fine, another the opposite, enter stage right, drivers ■■■■■■■■ about it not being consistent.

When it was only really an issue when something fell off, you don’t need the rules, but as soon as they started proactively clamping down on it, then you need rules, we have speed limits, it doesn’t mean you’re right traveling at them and other times you’re no danger traveling above them, but we have speed limits so we all know where we stand.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve only pulled a curtain sider a couple of time in the last 10 years, but I helped a mate the other day in a borrowed 7.5t, I was only going 15 miles down the road and I took it steady, the bigger stuff I strapped, but the smaller stuff I didn’t, I know I was taking a chance. But that doesn’t change the fact that I think we need rules. And looking at it objectively I think they’re right

92

You see, some things simply don’t need strapping in a tautliner, regardless if it is xl rated or not. Try standing in the back of a trailer and throw yourself at the curtains or even pick up a pallet and throw it at the curtains, I guarantee you will both bounce off.
This is not to say that standard curtain siders will not rip if a load falls against them but it is to say that the curtains do offer some form of restraint. It should be up to the driver to decide whether or not the level of restraint offered is suitable enough for them to complete a successful journey and not up to a hi vis jacket.

Having carried double stacked pallets of kitchen and bog roll on a curtain sider I would argue that any straps at all is simply overkill yet the company policy of such sites is that the load be strapped with useless internal straps that don’t stop the loads shooting.

93

Goldentanks:
You see, some things simply don’t need strapping in a tautliner, regardless if it is xl rated or not. Try standing in the back of a trailer and throw yourself at the curtains or even pick up a pallet and throw it at the curtains, I guarantee you will both bounce off.
This is not to say that standard curtain siders will not rip if a load falls against them but it is to say that the curtains do offer some form of restraint. It should be up to the driver to decide whether or not the level of restraint offered is suitable enough for them to complete a successful journey and not up to a hi vis jacket.

Having carried double stacked pallets of kitchen and bog roll on a curtain sider I would argue that any straps at all is simply overkill yet the company policy of such sites is that the load be strapped with useless internal straps that don’t stop the loads shooting.

I agree and in a previous job I delivered bottled water, I never strapped them other than odd pallets at the back and I also collected the empty bottles from the factory, double stacked, about 3t all up if memory serves in a standard curtain sider.

But I still think if they are going to proactively go after this, then you need rules so everyone knows where they stand. There has to be rules, you can’t roll the dice every time you get stopped on the opinion of the dude stopping you.

94

stevieboy308:

Goldentanks:
You see, some things simply don’t need strapping in a tautliner, regardless if it is xl rated or not. Try standing in the back of a trailer and throw yourself at the curtains or even pick up a pallet and throw it at the curtains, I guarantee you will both bounce off.
This is not to say that standard curtain siders will not rip if a load falls against them but it is to say that the curtains do offer some form of restraint. It should be up to the driver to decide whether or not the level of restraint offered is suitable enough for them to complete a successful journey and not up to a hi vis jacket.

Having carried double stacked pallets of kitchen and bog roll on a curtain sider I would argue that any straps at all is simply overkill yet the company policy of such sites is that the load be strapped with useless internal straps that don’t stop the loads shooting.

I agree and in a previous job I delivered bottled water, I never strapped them other than odd pallets at the back and I also collected the empty bottles from the factory, double stacked, about 3t all up if memory serves in a standard curtain sider.

But I still think if they are going to proactively go after this, then you need rules so everyone knows where they stand. There has to be rules, you can’t roll the dice every time you get stopped on the opinion of the dude stopping you.

Rules are for idiots. I never got this phrase until a few years ago thus proving me an idiot. It should be one simple rule and that is " the load is the responsibility of the driver" end of! Then we all know where we stand. If it goes ■■■■ up, the driver pays the price.

95

Goldentanks:

stevieboy308:

Goldentanks:
You see, some things simply don’t need strapping in a tautliner, regardless if it is xl rated or not. Try standing in the back of a trailer and throw yourself at the curtains or even pick up a pallet and throw it at the curtains, I guarantee you will both bounce off.
This is not to say that standard curtain siders will not rip if a load falls against them but it is to say that the curtains do offer some form of restraint. It should be up to the driver to decide whether or not the level of restraint offered is suitable enough for them to complete a successful journey and not up to a hi vis jacket.

Having carried double stacked pallets of kitchen and bog roll on a curtain sider I would argue that any straps at all is simply overkill yet the company policy of such sites is that the load be strapped with useless internal straps that don’t stop the loads shooting.

I agree and in a previous job I delivered bottled water, I never strapped them other than odd pallets at the back and I also collected the empty bottles from the factory, double stacked, about 3t all up if memory serves in a standard curtain sider.

But I still think if they are going to proactively go after this, then you need rules so everyone knows where they stand. There has to be rules, you can’t roll the dice every time you get stopped on the opinion of the dude stopping you.

Rules are for idiots. I never got this phrase until a few years ago thus proving me an idiot. It should be one simple rule and that is " the load is the responsibility of the driver" end of! Then we all know where we stand. If it goes ■■■■ up, the driver pays the price.

But if it does go ■■■■ up, it’s too late.

96

Goldentanks:

stevieboy308:

Goldentanks:
You see, some things simply don’t need strapping in a tautliner, regardless if it is xl rated or not. Try standing in the back of a trailer and throw yourself at the curtains or even pick up a pallet and throw it at the curtains, I guarantee you will both bounce off.
This is not to say that standard curtain siders will not rip if a load falls against them but it is to say that the curtains do offer some form of restraint. It should be up to the driver to decide whether or not the level of restraint offered is suitable enough for them to complete a successful journey and not up to a hi vis jacket.

Having carried double stacked pallets of kitchen and bog roll on a curtain sider I would argue that any straps at all is simply overkill yet the company policy of such sites is that the load be strapped with useless internal straps that don’t stop the loads shooting.

I agree and in a previous job I delivered bottled water, I never strapped them other than odd pallets at the back and I also collected the empty bottles from the factory, double stacked, about 3t all up if memory serves in a standard curtain sider.

But I still think if they are going to proactively go after this, then you need rules so everyone knows where they stand. There has to be rules, you can’t roll the dice every time you get stopped on the opinion of the dude stopping you.

Rules are for idiots. I never got this phrase until a few years ago thus proving me an idiot. It should be one simple rule and that is " the load is the responsibility of the driver" end of! Then we all know where we stand. If it goes ■■■■ up, the driver pays the price.

Here’s a clue.The pallets shown in the OP photos ain’t loaded with bog roll.While even empty pallets need to be roped/strapped on the basis that a curtain sider is just a flat that doesn’t need to be sheeted.It’s not rocket science.Might as well forget all about the ‘internal’ roof anchored things too on that same basis.

97

Goldentanks:

stevieboy308:

Goldentanks:
You see, some things simply don’t need strapping in a tautliner, regardless if it is xl rated or not. Try standing in the back of a trailer and throw yourself at the curtains or even pick up a pallet and throw it at the curtains, I guarantee you will both bounce off.
This is not to say that standard curtain siders will not rip if a load falls against them but it is to say that the curtains do offer some form of restraint. It should be up to the driver to decide whether or not the level of restraint offered is suitable enough for them to complete a successful journey and not up to a hi vis jacket.

Having carried double stacked pallets of kitchen and bog roll on a curtain sider I would argue that any straps at all is simply overkill yet the company policy of such sites is that the load be strapped with useless internal straps that don’t stop the loads shooting.

I agree and in a previous job I delivered bottled water, I never strapped them other than odd pallets at the back and I also collected the empty bottles from the factory, double stacked, about 3t all up if memory serves in a standard curtain sider.

But I still think if they are going to proactively go after this, then you need rules so everyone knows where they stand. There has to be rules, you can’t roll the dice every time you get stopped on the opinion of the dude stopping you.

Rules are for idiots. I never got this phrase until a few years ago thus proving me an idiot. It should be one simple rule and that is " the load is the responsibility of the driver" end of! Then we all know where we stand. If it goes ■■■■ up, the driver pays the price.

So does the people injured or killed

Rules might be for idiots, but surely only bigger idiots think there should be no rules?

98

if i lifted the items in the original pic,then id shut the curtains and be up the road.
no doubt they would be sitting exactly where the forkie left them on delivery.
if they had moved a tad,then how could it possibly matter when its a curtainsider.
if it was a flat,then strapping them would mostly be to stop someone nicking them.
if i had all day to do nothing then i dont think id even strap them as by looking at them,theres absolutely no point.they are going nowhere.
if its fallen off.its insecure.
if its hanging off.its insecure.
if its not strapped and not moved upon inspection,then its fine and only an exuse to ■■■■ the driver as an easy target for revenue.

99

dieseldog999:
if i lifted the items in the original pic,then id shut the curtains and be up the road.
no doubt they would be sitting exactly where the forkie left them on delivery.
if they had moved a tad,then how could it possibly matter when its a curtainsider.
if it was a flat,then strapping them would mostly be to stop someone nicking them.
if i had all day to do nothing then i dont think id even strap them as by looking at them,theres absolutely no point.they are going nowhere.
if its fallen off.its insecure.
if its hanging off.its insecure.
if its not strapped and not moved upon inspection,then its fine and only an exuse to ■■■■ the driver as an easy target for revenue.

That argument falls down because your not strapping stuff for the normal non event journey, you’re strapping stuff for the emergency stop etc

Is an unlocked house that didn’t get robbed secure?

The fact a pallet never moved doesn’t mean it was secure.

Physics disagrees with you

100

stevieboy308:

dieseldog999:
if i lifted the items in the original pic,then id shut the curtains and be up the road.
no doubt they would be sitting exactly where the forkie left them on delivery.
if they had moved a tad,then how could it possibly matter when its a curtainsider.
if it was a flat,then strapping them would mostly be to stop someone nicking them.
if i had all day to do nothing then i dont think id even strap them as by looking at them,theres absolutely no point.they are going nowhere.
if its fallen off.its insecure.
if its hanging off.its insecure.
if its not strapped and not moved upon inspection,then its fine and only an exuse to ■■■■ the driver as an easy target for revenue.

That argument falls down because your not strapping stuff for the normal non event journey, you’re strapping stuff for the emergency stop etc

Is an unlocked house that didn’t get robbed secure?

The fact a pallet never moved doesn’t mean it was secure.

Physics disagrees with you

I wouldn’t waste your time. You are not dealing with a rational person here