Increase in MOT Failures

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

I have always prepped my vehicles myself ready for annual test, apart from 1 trailer at it’s first MoT and 1 tractor unit as the date didn’t give me the time to prep it after a holiday, so, it went in to a garage to be done

I have had some failures, but, they have always been for justifiable reasons, now, I use all 3 of the centres mentioned earlier, Leicester (main one), Derby (occasionally) and Watnall (if other 2 are fully booked), recently, I have started using an ATF which is about 3 miles from my yard, but still operated by VOSA staff from the Leicester centre, and in the failures that I have had, the inspector has always given me an explanation as to why it failed

On some occasions, they have spotted something that I have missed and just told me to sort it when I get back to the yard

The only time I have had cause to complain about the way that VOSA operate was when 1 of my trucks was pulled for a spot check and given a delayed PG9 for an air leak which was the cab levelling valve doing what it is designed to do :smiling_imp: and even the inspector at Leicester was ■■■■■■ off at the idiot who gave my driver the delayed PG9 for not doing his job properly

I was told that I could appeal against the notice, but decided it would be in my best interest just to pay up and leave it safe in the knowledge that the inspector that covers Milton Keynes is a complete tool of the highest order

And, Muckaway, 10 days to prep a truck for MoT? :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

And the truck STILL fails :open_mouth:

In my opinion, your companies maintenance providers need a right good kick up where the sun don’t shine and then showing the door :open_mouth:

42

Spanky, I’ll find out wtf is going on later as my wagon’s got to be washe this afternoon for the service that’s been cancelled twice in the last week. Workshop will probably be having a break when I eventually get there :unamused: :laughing:

43

Option 1.

Your workshop staff are overloaded with work.

Option 2.

Your workshop staff are a lazy shower of barstewards.

Which one is it? :grimacing:

44

That’s a telling point muck, your inspection is overdue by a week. Your firm seem a bit of a cowboy outfit mate. What with your night out thread the other week, seems nobody at your place is willing to stay a minute past 5 :open_mouth:

45

Like everything with VOSA they need to make money and if they have a slack week a few re-tests make up the shortfall.

They can fail a vehicle on brakes or emissions knowing that the readings can alter within minutes. I had that on one of my vehicles a few years back, by coincidence it was when they started charging full rate for re-tests.

If you appeal against their decision you are on a loser and they know it.

Regarding ATF’s failing vehicles to get the work that doesn’t really work. They are better off passing as many as possible and getting a reputation for being fair. They will then get more work that way. If they keep failing vehicles for trivial faults no one will use them.

46

OVLOV JAY:
That’s a telling point muck, your inspection is overdue by a week. Your firm seem a bit of a cowboy outfit mate. What with your night out thread the other week, seems nobody at your place is willing to stay a minute past 5 :open_mouth:

To be fair, they ain’t a cowboy outfit, nor ever have been…an old school haulier running tidy kit properly is how they’ve always been seen as. There is only a couple of small hauliers in the tipper game, in this area, that have the good reputation that Smiths enjoy. Having said that, something seems to be amiss just recently…

If the workshop staff whinge and mither like some of their drivers, that could well be the root of the problem… :unamused: :wink: :smiley:

47

Muckaway:
We really shouldn’t be getting failures; A lorry is taken off the road for about 10 days in preparation for it’s mot. I doubt many companies allow this much time?

10 days for mot prep?! my gaffer has a nose bleed for 1 day mot prep :laughing:

48

OVLOV JAY:
That’s a telling point muck, your inspection is overdue by a week. Your firm seem a bit of a cowboy outfit mate. What with your night out thread the other week, seems nobody at your place is willing to stay a minute past 5 :open_mouth:

Now you mention it, I’ve not heard a thing from any office bod about that; No “what were you playing at?” “thanks for working late” or “sorry we shut the workshop and 'ggered off home, even though we didn’t know if you/lorry had a problem”…so much for the tracker.

49

Piston broke:

OVLOV JAY:
That’s a telling point muck, your inspection is overdue by a week. Your firm seem a bit of a cowboy outfit mate. What with your night out thread the other week, seems nobody at your place is willing to stay a minute past 5 :open_mouth:

To be fair, they ain’t a cowboy outfit, nor ever have been…an old school haulier running tidy kit properly is how they’ve always been seen as. There is only a couple of small hauliers in the tipper game, in this area, that have the good reputation that Smiths enjoy. Having said that, something seems to be amiss just recently…

If the workshop staff whinge and mither like some of their drivers, that could well be the root of the problem… :unamused: :wink: :smiley:

Transport was completely separate at one time, now the TM answers directly to the Sales Manager :wink:

50

10 days pre mot is a seriously long period for a company that needs to have vehicles out on the road making money. Firstly this needs looking into, if its deemed 10 days are required then you must have a very busy workshop where the mot vehicles are worked on between other work getting done and the Workshop Manager deems the other work is more important. Not knowing enough about the set up means we can’t make uneducated guess’.
Also the type of failures might not necessarily mean VOSA will be on your shirt tails. Failures on safety items like brakes, steering, tyres etc then yeah a closer look might be taken by the Commissioner. However getting knocked for headlight alignment (one of the highest failure rates) correct mirror settings (not many know the wide angle mirrors have to give a view covering a required area) and other minor items but failures all the same might not mean the hammer will come down. For all we know the Workshop Manager might have already kicked some ■■■, but it isn’t unusual for a string of failures to occur when previously there had been very few. I’d be interested to know how a pre mot is done here. Franky.(Senior Vehicle Technician Fire and Rescue Service)

51

The (upto) 10 day for overhaul/pre mot has been around aslong as my Dad’s been there (34 years) but lorries are kept for too long. Looking at pics of mine in the 7 years I’ve had it (from new) I’ve noticed how tired it’s becoming. Really, the wagons need to go at 5 years but the Fodens are better motors than what they’ve bought since 2006. We used to park wagons up when a driver was off now someone’s jumping in your seat before you’ve left the yard. I experienced this today, washed mine for service and given an 8wheeler whos driver was loading his car up with his gear as he’s having a few weeks off for a back op.
Rough drivers used to be barred from certain vehicles that were well looked after; I kept my previous Fodens immaculate until someone had mine on my day off and knocked it about. All I got was “whos name is on the cab?”

52

Muckaway wrote;
It used to work out that first day the lorry was washed and steam cleaned.
Checked and serviced.
Wheels off, brakes etc all overhauled plus anything driver had concerns about.
Any knocks, scratches, rust etc treated and painted.
Road tested and any problems sorted.
Loaded and tested again.
Cab valeted (yes, on a tipper)
Lorry polished.
Taken for test.
10 working days is normally the maximum for “problem” lorries, like Dads. IIRC mine was only off the road for about 7 days.

Ahh, just read this bit, it wasn’t on yesterday when I read the posts. I presume ‘checked’ means an inspection, without a proper inspection (including test drive) that will show up any defects doing all the rest is superficial, for instance the air leak would have been spotted straight away and other defects also listed to be sorted once the service and brake overhaul had been completed. I wonder if it is during the Inspection stage that things are going wrong, if they actually are. Be interesting to hear how things are in a few Months time. Franky.

53

Could there be a reliance on the defect sheets at inspection stage, rather than looking closely themselves?

54

Our test preps are rolled in with 6 weekly’s.

7 weeks before test, we carry out a 6 weekly inspection. If the brakes are low, we’ll reline them. There’s nothing checked on test that isn’t checked on a 6 weekly.

3 weeks before test we give them a voluntary brake and smoke test at the test station. To confirm the original brakes are working ok, and to confirm the new brakes are bedded in if it’s been relined. If the orginal brakes are not alright, we’ve got 2 weeks to reline and bed the new brakes in.

1 week before test it’s due its next 6 weekly, so carry out a 6 weekly inspection as planned.

1 hour before test, check the lights, wipers, washers horn (part of the drivers daily checks anyway).

So, 2 hours for a 6 weekly, possibly another 4 if reline needed. 1 hour for a voluntary brake test. 2 hours for a second 6 weekly, then test. Total 9 hours if a reline is needed, of which 4 hours are PMI’s anyway.

55

miketdt:
I have heard Exeter’s LGV Vosa station is to close due to lower numbers coming through and haulage companies having their MOT or Plating done at private companies. Could be private companies see it as a good earner to fail trucks for next to nothing?

Even at the private ATF’s the tests are conducted by VOSA staff. The private bit is just the building and equipment but all this is obviously to VOSA specification. yes VOSA will eventually close their own stations - but VOSA staff are still going to be used. often you struggle to get a test booking at a VOSA station becasue all the testers are booked out to local ATF’s.

Whenever a vehicle fails MOT I always study the MOT Inspection Manual to see if the fail is correct. I have before now had a fail reversed when I proved the tester was not sticking to the words as written in ‘the book’. Failing a tyre that was at 1.2mm at it’s lowest … I don’t think so Mr tester. Book says 1mm :smiley: Fail for Hazard Switch not flashing red - don’t think so Mr VOSA … … … read the book. Excessive play on a track rod end? here - read the spec sheet from the manufacturer - it isn’t excessive play it’s built like that etc etc

As for brake test - the pass figures are an absolute minimum. if a vehicle passes but only just the day before test - forget the test and get the brakes sorted. Those pass marks are absolute minimums and braking efficiency should be way above. Don’t forget - like it or not there are a lot of governing factors during a brake test. How hot are the brakes, tyres, rollers etc. You need to get the brake performance way up there in the higher readings.

I send all trucks for a voluntary test booked with the actual test. So they turn up and have brakes, headlights and emissions done just before the test. Failure of these voluntary tests doesn’t go on the OCRS record. A fail on any of those and we just drive away and miss the test - might cost money but no fail on the OCRS record. if it passes the voluntary - shouldn’t be a problem for the actual test. I have known a headlight to pass voluntary then fail the test - until you point out fred over there just passed it - then they usually change their minds. I always send my oldest and wisest fitter with the wagon as well. he knows all the testers and tells them what the MOT standards are :smiley:

I know our fitters used to use the actual MOT test to see if the brakes were OK. Our OCRS was red and the MOT fail rate crap. When i was put in charge I introduced the voluntary tests and disciplinary action for fails. OCRS is now high Amber almost green and MOT pass rate excellent for the age of the fleet. Took some doing though and a few fitters had to seek alternative employment :open_mouth:

If you use external maintenance - why should they give a ■■■■? It isn’t their OCRS score. get them contracted to BIG financial penalties for MOT failures and see how they perform.

56

Could there be a reliance on the defect sheets at inspection stage, rather than looking closely themselves?

There could be, one answer is to give the fitter the drivers defect after the inspection and service when he is ready to do the jobs he has or hasn’t found during inspection but that means there is some doubt as to the efficiency of the fitter. Much better to produce an inspection method for all to follow.

Working on Fire Appliances we have a slightly different approach but basically we still check the whole vehicle over as an HGV. It is washed externally so on return it is road tested, checked outside for items applying to emergency vehicles, Sirens, Horns and Pump operation. Brought inside over a pit and inspected, all lights, brake and steering checks with another fitter in the cab pressing the required buttons/pedals etc, any defects noted. A full underneath front to rear inspection with toffee hammer and pry bar in hand again any defects noted. Cab up and axles jacked up, kinpin, bearing checks and full checks on the engine and gearbox area. The body and its ancilliary equipment are done finally. Usually we would have by that stage around a dozen items of defects from a bulb off, missing rivets, to a worn ball joint on an older machine, less so on the newer models.

A brake inspection and clean follows. This is one area where different maint staff have different ideas, we only need to clean linings/pads if they are in good condition and wipe out drums/discs. For many years fitters have scrubbed away at linings and drum faces with emery or production papers thinking a nice clean brake will give good results (because that’s how it was always done), when all they have done is remove a good bedding between lining and drum and this all has to be re-bedded through natural driving, taking it around the block with the brakes hanging on until they are almost burning isn’t the way it should be done.

Most brake efficiency is lost in worn, dry or siezed pins and the other mechanical parts to operate the brakes yet these areas receive little attention, usually. Our vehicles spend 4 to 5 days in the workshop for a full yearly routine and as we don’t send them to mot stations they are generally back on station within the week unless a parts hold up keeps them a day or so longer. That’s also with other equipments being serviced and repaired, pumps, ladders and gantry’s etc. They may not do the miles an average haulage motor does but they are worked hard once on the road in an emergency and during pumping operations, we also keep them for around 15 years. You do need good maint staff that can be relied on and training and planning helps here. Franky.

57

When I was fitting for TILCON we used to take the truck off the road on friday, steam it off saturday and then inspect it monday morning. We stripped all the front brakes to give the cams etc a good clean up and carry out any other repairs, I would then load 15 tons on it and take it for test on thursday at Derby test station. We did ok at Derby, they knew us as we had one a week tested and advised if anything needed doing without going OTT, but when Derby were busy we went to Watnall and they hated us! Another 48 eight leggers didn’t appeal to them at all and they found every little thing to fail us on, I made a stand one day when they found ONE loose wheel nut on our Bedford road sweeper and they refused to let me borrow the wheel brace they had and insisted that I took it 30 miles back home and bring it for a retest! I took the keys out and said that it wasn’t moving until I saw the manager, he agreed that the staff were wrong and I tightened the nut and got a pass, they still made it awkward every time after that though but luckily Derby slackened off a bit and normal service resumed! Latterly the trucks went to Bells near Macclesfield who I believe had a tester from Bredbury.

Pete.

58

gazzaman58:
First pass rate at MOT

2008/09 67.64%
2009/10 72.63%
20010/11 74.47%

Source VOSA Heavy Goods Vehicle Fleet Report 2010-2011

how did you come by this info?

is that for the company that you work for or for Muckaway’s company?

59

08-11-10 Fail rates for HGV tests hit all time low
More heavy good vehicles than ever before are passing their annual test first-time, thanks to new innovations and close collaboration between VOSA and the industry.

This week VOSA published it’s 2009/10 Effectiveness Report which shows that initial test fail rates have fallen below the 30 per cent mark for the first time since the agency began logging test results in 1992.

The figure for 2009/10 stands at 27.4 per cent, significantly lower than the 32.4 per cent reported in 2008/9 and 36.5 per cent in 2007/08. VOSA have attributed this to an innovative approach to testing and ever closer links with the industry to help them achieve compliance.

By making performance reports available online VOSA has enabled operators to manage their own compliance more proactively, with 47 per cent of operators now signed up.

VOSA has also worked closely with vehicle manufacturers on initiatives to drive up first time pass rates at their dealerships. By being given access to performance data provided by VOSA, manufacturers are able to set targets and incentivise dealers to ensure their vehicles pass first time.

In addition, the agency has worked with the industry to simplify testing standards for headlamp aim in 2008 which has proved to be a success. Since then, a modern electronic method of assessing headlamp aim has been introduced which has lead to an improved pass rate.

VOSA Chief Executive Alastair Peoples said:

“I am really encouraged by these latest figures.”

"A lower first time pass rate shows that roadworthiness standards are improving. This means safer roads for everybody.

"VOSA is working ever closer with the industry to push up compliance and our innovative on-line services are proving to be a really effective tool.”

View the report here:

dft.gov.uk/vosa/publications … tsuite.htm

Steve

60

do i wade in to this topic, as i am a class 4 and 7 mot tester… :laughing: