In a spot of bother, hours;

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

I’m not doing very well just lately and could use some advice please. I’ve had infringements through nearly weekly for the last month :open_mouth:

:confused: Thing is, I know the rules reasonably well - my trouble is keeping track of what I’ve done, Most of the infringements are for odd minutes here and there especially W.t.d 6 hrs. I got one through today though that’s for weekly rest and looking back over the last few weeks this seems to be a problem area (it was also acompanied by a concerned sounding email from the company). Part of the problem, I think, is the agency call me wednesday or thursday for availability for the next week and give me work there and then and I’ve been too tired / busy to notice what’s happening - the person on the phone seems to be working out if I can do it legaly (and decided I can) and I’ve put too much faith in this person’s ability, foolishly.

I’m not trying to shift blame here but I feel this setup’s pretty floored, how can anyone say when I’m o.k. to start on say sunday night when I’m working friday and won’t know when I’ll be finished at least until I’m actually on the road? I could tell them 5 day weeks only from now on but obviously that’ll cost me in the long run - must admit I’m tempted though :frowning:

How do you guys keep track of your hours? I need to get something sorted! Please don’t just say “diary”, I need a more detailed answer please i.e. what do you put in the diary and how to you work out what you can do next week (see above).

2

Pen and paper Drive,Work and rest :smiley:

3

darkseeker:
I’m not doing very well just lately and could use some advice please. I’ve had infringements through nearly weekly for the last month :open_mouth:

:confused: Thing is, I know the rules reasonably well - my trouble is keeping track of what I’ve done, Most of the infringements are for odd minutes here and there especially W.t.d 6 hrs. I got one through today though that’s for weekly rest and looking back over the last few weeks this seems to be a problem area (it was also acompanied by a concerned sounding email from the company). Part of the problem, I think, is the agency call me wednesday or thursday for availability for the next week and give me work there and then and I’ve been too tired / busy to notice what’s happening - the person on the phone seems to be working out if I can do it legaly (and decided I can) and I’ve put too much faith in this person’s ability, foolishly.

I’m not trying to shift blame here but I feel this setup’s pretty floored, how can anyone say when I’m o.k. to start on say sunday night when I’m working friday and won’t know when I’ll be finished at least until I’m actually on the road? I could tell them 5 day weeks only from now on but obviously that’ll cost me in the long run - must admit I’m tempted though :frowning:

How do you guys keep track of your hours? I need to get something sorted! Please don’t just say “diary”, I need a more detailed answer please i.e. what do you put in the diary and how to you work out what you can do next week (see above).

:open_mouth:

4

There have been one or two occasions when I’ve had to phone the agency and tell them I won’t be able to start at the arranged time because I’ve finished/will finish a shift later than expected, they have the option of trying to rearrange the times or getting someone else to cover the shift in question.

There has been an occasion when I’ve agreed to a start time only to realise later that I’d worked it out wrong and couldn’t start at that time, when I’ve phoned the agency to tell them they have the same options as above :wink:

When working for the same company on a regular basis it’s sometimes more beneficial to contact them rather than the agency, most companies will be glad you had the good sense to let them know that there’s a problem.

If you or the agency has worked out your times incorrectly and booked a shift you can’t legally do tell them, it’s your license and you are the one who get the infringements and fixed penalties if VOSA stop you, no point in arguing with anyone just be firm and let them know that it would be illegal for you not to have the required rest periods.

5

darkseeker:
I’m not doing very well just lately and could use some advice please. I’ve had infringements through nearly weekly for the last month :open_mouth:

:confused: Thing is, I know the rules reasonably well - my trouble is keeping track of what I’ve done, Most of the infringements are for odd minutes here and there especially W.t.d 6 hrs. I got one through today though that’s for weekly rest and looking back over the last few weeks this seems to be a problem area (it was also acompanied by a concerned sounding email from the company). Part of the problem, I think, is the agency call me wednesday or thursday for availability for the next week and give me work there and then and I’ve been too tired / busy to notice what’s happening - the person on the phone seems to be working out if I can do it legaly (and decided I can) and I’ve put too much faith in this person’s ability, foolishly.

I’m not trying to shift blame here but I feel this setup’s pretty floored, how can anyone say when I’m o.k. to start on say sunday night when I’m working friday and won’t know when I’ll be finished at least until I’m actually on the road? I could tell them 5 day weeks only from now on but obviously that’ll cost me in the long run - must admit I’m tempted though :frowning:

How do you guys keep track of your hours? I need to get something sorted! Please don’t just say “diary”, I need a more detailed answer please i.e. what do you put in the diary and how to you work out what you can do next week (see above).

I am not sure how well you understand the RTD and 561/2006 so I don’t want to teach you to ■■■■ eggs

The RTD requires;

that mobile workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
If working hours total between 6 and 9 hours a day, a break of at least 30 minutes is required.

Working time should be interrupted with a break of 45 minutes if working hours total more than 9 hours a day.

Like the existing EU drivers’ hours rules, breaks can be divided up into 15 minute intervals.

When taking a break, drivers may not perform anything that might be regarded as “other work” during this period.

Look at your working weeks over 4 or 6 weeks.

Week one; 35 hours driving, 48h weekly rest.

Week two; 52 hours driving, 36h weekly rest

Week three; 38 hours driving, 46h weekly rest

Week four; 50 hours driving, 54h weekly rest. End of Fourth week

Week five; 30 hours driving, 24h weekly rest

Week six; 56 hours driving, 45h weekly rest

Maximum 90 hours reached

For me I would forget the RTD and concentrate more on the tacho regs, also forget the agency, as already mentioned, it is your licence and the company who run the trucks are also at risk of prosecution, not the agency. “Sorry mate, no can do, I need ■■ hours off this weekend”

6

hello mate, everything i do is written down in a diary ie, start time, finish time, driving time, breaks, p.o.a and other work, also mileage, working time directive, and how many hours i have off overnight, before i start next shift, and at the end of the week, add all your driving time up, and then your working time directive, and then calculate how many hours you need off for that weekend, stick to 45 hours off, it works for me

7

grahamzx6r:
hello mate, everything i do is written down in a diary ie, start time, finish time, driving time, breaks, p.o.a and other work, also mileage, working time directive, and how many hours i have off overnight, before i start next shift, and at the end of the week, add all your driving time up, and then your working time directive, and then calculate how many hours you need off for that weekend, stick to 45 hours off, it works for me

The problem with that is ‘how many hours you need off’ for a weekly rest period isn’t governed by the amount of driving you have done or the amount of hours you have worked in the week

8

Coffeeholic:

grahamzx6r:
hello mate, everything i do is written down in a diary ie, start time, finish time, driving time, breaks, p.o.a and other work, also mileage, working time directive, and how many hours i have off overnight, before i start next shift, and at the end of the week, add all your driving time up, and then your working time directive, and then calculate how many hours you need off for that weekend, stick to 45 hours off, it works for me

The problem with that is ‘how many hours you need off’ for a weekly rest period isn’t governed by the amount of driving you have done or the amount of hours you have worked in the week

i don’t have a problem with it coffee, i’m not stretched for my driving hours or my or the hours that i have worked and if i don’t get back early enough on a saturday morning (which is extremely rare) cos i like to park up early on a friday, 9 hours off, foot down and get home, if its a reduced weekend then i compensate accordingly, its never been a problem :slight_smile:

9

grahamzx6r:

Coffeeholic:

grahamzx6r:
hello mate, everything i do is written down in a diary ie, start time, finish time, driving time, breaks, p.o.a and other work, also mileage, working time directive, and how many hours i have off overnight, before i start next shift, and at the end of the week, add all your driving time up, and then your working time directive, and then calculate how many hours you need off for that weekend, stick to 45 hours off, it works for me

The problem with that is ‘how many hours you need off’ for a weekly rest period isn’t governed by the amount of driving you have done or the amount of hours you have worked in the week

i don’t have a problem with it coffee, i’m not stretched for my driving hours or my or the hours that i have worked and if i don’t get back early enough on a saturday morning (which is extremely rare) cos i like to park up early on a friday, 9 hours off, foot down and get home, if its a reduced weekend then i compensate accordingly, its never been a problem :slight_smile:

I am under the impression from this that you calculate all your hours from your diary and it reads to me like you are compensating for reduced daily rest which is unnecessary since 2007. Maybe i have just misunderstood which part you were working out!

10

Thanks guys, just to clear a point up; I’m not going over to suit anyone, I’ve never been so busy and t.b.h. The last six weeks have been a bit of a blur!

I’ve come to the conclusion if I work Sunday I don’t work Friday (nights) and the same the other way round which should sort the weekly rests out, I need to take time each day to fill some sort of diary in too, any other advice much appreciated!

11

I use a notebook as my driving diary, 1 page per day / shift.
I don’t fill it in at the end of my shift, I do it as I go.
What I put in is Start time
Driving start time
arrival time at 1st stop and elapsed driving time,
arrival time at 2nd stop and elapsed driving time,
etc,
arrival time at break stop and elapsed driving time underlining driving time.
leave a line empty to emphasise my break,
arrival time at 3rd stop and elapsed driving time since my break,
etc,
arrival time at daily rest stop and elapsed driving time since my last full break, underlining again to emphasise.
I take elapsed driving time from my digi-tacho, not a timer.
I make sure I get my 15 minute (WTD) break in, even if its just a stroll into the services, pee, grab a coffee and stroll back. It usually drops in with my lunch break stop anyway.

Once I park up, I copy out milage done, calculate total driving time, calculate total worked time, other useful stuff from my days diary. Staple in a copy of a print-out if I need one to explain an :blush: :imp: , etc.

At the end of the week I also calculate my weeks total driving and total worked time.

It’s maybe a bit long winded, but I know if I’m going to be over my driving time (very rare), when I’ve GOT to be parked up by, if I’ve got a 10 left, if I can use a 9 tonight, if I need a 45 this weekend etc, so it’s worth taking those few seconds every stop to note it down and a couple of minutes at the end of my shift to add 4.15, 3.30, 1.10, (or whatever) IMO.

12

At the end of the week I also calculate my weeks total driving and total worked time.

It’s maybe a bit long winded, but I know if I’m going to be over my driving time (very rare), when I’ve GOT to be parked up by, if I’ve got a 10 left, if I can use a 9 tonight, if I need a 45 this weekend etc, so it’s worth taking those few seconds every stop to note it down and a couple of minutes at the end of my shift to add 4.15, 3.30, 1.10, and also here (or whatever) IMO.

Overall, your system seems well-thought-out and efficient. It demonstrates a commitment to both safety and record-keeping, which are essential qualities for any professional driver.

13

Holy thread revival from 13 years ago. Ironically around the time I joined trucknet :joy: actually only 11 years since I joined, close but no cigar.

14

I have fallen foul of that , thumbs up to decades old threads . my intuition tells me new post at the top, new ones have to be hunted for GGGGrrrrrrrrrrr !