Rjan:
Carryfast:
Rjan:
[…]I never had the slightest doubt that the Cons as a Party,maybe with a few cowardly wavering exceptions like Davis and IDS,are for remain not leave.As expected of an ideologically Federalist rabble that actually took us into the Federalist zb pile.While Corbyn is pushing for a clarification of the withdrawal bill that keeps us tied to the EU single market and everything which goes with it in the form of EU rule over the country.It’s clear in this case that what you actually mean is the same old alliance of Left Wing and Right Wing remain and which is winning out just as before whether it be Heath,Thatcher,Major,Callaghan,Jenkins,Blair,Cameron,May,Hammond,Starmer and Corbyn.
Someone must have believed the Tories were for Brexit, because the majority of Brexiteers voted Tory!
When? I think it is safe to assume that nearly 4m brexiteers voted for UKIP in 2015, but when UKIP’s vote collapsed to around 500k in 2017 - a lot more ex-UKIP voters went for Corbyn’s Labour than were prepared to trust Remainer May’s version of Brexit. Perhaps this is indicative that the Left version of Brexit is more popular than the RIght version? It is a shame that Corbyn has yet to commit to such a concept in any meaningful way though… Eg. Get rid of Starmer, and bang the drum for Hard Brexit - so Boris cannot be heard banging his own drum for his own Brexit…Corbyn isn’t seeking to keep us tied to the single market in the sense of keeping the status quo. He has rejected the EEA option - and once again, Starmer is showing himself to be a charm, wearing down the Blairite wreckers with logic and party democracy!
Corbyn’s proper agenda is two-fold, firstly abolishing free movement, and secondly regaining democratic control over the economy. Abolishing Free Movement will be a symptom of wresting legal control away from Strasbourg. Leaving the single market and customs union - is a symptom of “The EU will want to deny us these anyway, as a penalty for Brexit”. It isn’t the Brexiteers that want out of both, but rather the price Brexiteers are prepared to pay to stop paying any more money to Brussels - which is what it is REALLY all about.
While don’t count your chickens yet in thinking that a significant part of the Labour and the Con vote won’t see through this amateurish Con/Lab remain alliance plot and prefer to vote for a Batten led UKIP if/when push comes to shove.Bearing in mind that UKIP can still cause havoc to May’s and Corbyn’s laughably obvious remain agenda given some well targeted campaigning in strategic constituencies.Hopefully with the most effort going into bringing down the total waste of space coward Davis.
Farage won’t be making any moves until the next election is announced. Then, he’ll have to move quickly to get his oar in. At present, his options are open: If Moggy can take over as PM before the next election is imminent - then there is an opening for Farage to re-join the Tories, and be aided in that quest by a friendly Mogg reserving a probably safe tory seat for him…
Speaking generally, a return of UKIP would be a good thing electorally, because it splits the Tory vote more than it does Labour.
Don’t agree actually. That’s what many thought in 2015, only to find that UKIP’s surge to 4m votes - seemed to not only come from Milliband’s Labour poll collapsing, but Cameron grabbing some extra votes to win his “unexpected majority” as well. Hardly the 4m coming “mostly from the Tories” then…!But also speaking more subtly about policy, Labour needs the support of more Labour Leavers, to buttress it’s left-wing Eurosceptics. There’s no point working class Brexiteers abandoning Labour, and then complaining that the bloody party is a hive of Blairites and Remainers. And, almost incredibly, criticising personally the most Eurosceptic leadership of the Labour party since 1983, who are in open warfare with the Remainers! I’m at the point that I’m asking myself what is wrong with people’s brains. Blair shifting to the Right got Labour elected. We Brits as our National Identity tend to be more Right-leaning than not, and even former “Middle of the Road” people like Moi, have this tendency to “Err to the Right” rather than the Left. I never voted for Blair, but I did vote for Ashdowns Libdems at that time. I liked his Military background. I voted for Cleggy mainly because he is still a smart guy, I just fell out with his politics in the end. I didn’t vote for Kennedy though, switching my vote to Howard’s Tories for that election. Despite my temporary shift away as it was at that time, the Libdems shot to their high water mark in the 2005 election - with me stting out for the first time since the 80’s at that point. Once Blair took office, I worked with the new regime, rather than protested on the streets. I didn’t do bad out of Labour’s first time I didn’t vote for actually - I look back and realize in retrospect that they were probably the best years of my adult life.
As for Corbyn don’t be surprised if Starmer throws him under the bus now that Corbyn has obviously given Starmer and Ummuna what they want in the form of carte blanche to get the Blair project back on track.With the Brit working class vote possibly not being as easy to fool as the French one was in voting like sheep for Macron instead of Le Pen under the guidance of the self appointed Socialist political commissars.
If Corbyn throws Starmer under the bus, then a lot of swing voters like me will strongly consider voting Labour. If Starmer throws Corbyn under the bus, Corbyn’s highly functional campaign style - is gone forever, and Labour’s vote will collapse to it’s core rump, under 200 seats I predict.
Has he given Starmer what he wants (that being something different from what Corbyn and McDonnell want)? I can’t count a single instance where the Blairites are getting what they want either on policy or just the narrative generally. And I can’t point to a single occasion on which Starmer has said anything in the Blairites’ favour - if he is a friend of the Blairites, do they need enemies?
Bugger what Starmer wants. Either he’s a Labour man - or he’s just an upstart trying to push the Chanpagne Socialist envelope, which surely by this point - is already dead in the water?On that note you’re doing as good a job as any in helping the UKIP vote.What with you being a Remain voter telling Leave voters,that staying under the EUSSR’s jackboot,clearly engineered by your fellow remainer Starmer,rather than leaver Hoey,equates to so called ‘left wing’ Brexit.While also don’t remember you making any distinction between left and right wing remain before you supposedly changed sides.IE you were obviously voting to remain in exactly the same EU as Cameron and May ( and Blair ) were in the referendum so why are you suddenly applying double standards in that regard now and what changed since ?.
We cannot continue letting the EU be a parasite upon the UK economy. It was NEVER worth paying a membership fee that helps EU citizens out in general (Socialist Upside) but UK PAYE Taxpayers in particular - have to bear the brunt of cut public services, out-of-control consumer borrowing, and of course “Pennypinching before Lifesaving” aspects in the NHS.
But I’m not a Remain supporter anymore - as far as I’m concerned it’s either reform or revolution with the EU, and I don’t mean reform in the nature of a few sops that don’t fundamentally alter anything, I mean radical reform. Even if Italy manages to hamstring the EU, it would be better if we offered Italy aid putting the boot in, rather than any talk of re-joining the EU against Italy and the other “upstarts” who’ve dared to elect Popularist (read: Right Wing) governments…
And about “left and right wing Remain”, I accept that I didn’t make a distinction, and the scales have fallen from my eyes. There is no legitimate left-wing Remain position any longer, in the sense of simply remaining with the status quo. Don’t get me wrong, if my only choices were between a Tory-led, right-wing Brexit on the one hand, and Remain on the other, I’d still support Remain as the least-worst option. It’s encouraging to hear that some of the 47% taken in by the 1% elitists - have realized that they have been collectively had. No way can 48% of the population actually be “better off” under what we’re having drained off us by the EU, and still continuing to get drained by this point of course… Any “current” pains of Brexit - are all about the continuing Austerity, that “still paying Brussels” has extended these past two years already… How many have died from such home neglect to public services, in particular the NHS I wonder?
But those are clearly not the only choices anymore - and in fact, the way things are going, the real choice is going to be a Remain or a BINO under the Tories, and a real change in the EU relationship under Corbyn. If the EU get to “win this” - then the argument for them will be "They don’t need to reform, ever as the EU clearly defeated once-mighty Britain, that Germany failed to do in two world wars prior to that. Militarily Losing twice, and then winning diplomatically by the back door, using oddly enough - Hitler-like policies to pull it off!
And you mark my words, it’s looking like the Tories will soon swing back to the centre, and the right-wing rags will start pumping pro-Remain propaganda and seek to cream off Labour’s Blairites from it’s right wing, and if the working class aren’t behind Corbyn, Brexit will go from dead in the water to Davy Jones’ locker. Theresa May has already moved to the Center, apparently taking Tony Blair’s advice to act thus, and occupying the very ground that we thought we threw under the bus in the 2015 election. Such a move is to fly in the face of what people voted for in the 2015 election as well then! Our politicians just don’t get it - do they?
As I said with remainers May and Hammond in the top jobs and Starmer as shadow Brexit minister,all clearly allied,just as Heath and Thatcher and Callaghan and Jenkins were,in keeping us in the EU,who are you trying to fool.
But Callaghan and Jenkins were on the right of Labour. The left-wing of Old Labour never were. And think what you will about Starmer - the fact is, Labour has a leadership thrown up by the grassroots, who are there to challenge the Labour’s right-wing enemies within. The EU is a centerist globalist conspiracy that has 80% of Labour and 50% of Tories “centerist enough” to be in favour of if. The fact that the Libdems are 100% in favour of it - should betray where exactly the EU’s strongest support base comes from - the centerists!!
Left wing Brexit you’re avin a larf.When what you’re really all about is using the Trojan Horse,of what is a disadvantageous trading relationship to the point of it being an economic liabity to us,all to maintain EU rule over us.At least so long as you perceive an advantage for Socialism in that.While your obvious opportunistic plan to replace UKIP MEP’s with Labour EU puppets at home as part of that will also hopefully backfire spectacularly in the inevitable approaching GE and a Europe increasingly turning to Nationalism and away from control freak Federalism anyway.
Fortunately, the time for UKIP voters to temporarily swing to Labour was literally “SO last year”. Next time around, people are either going to be looking for a re-vamped UKIP, or will go for a Re-booted Tory party. Either way, Farage must be part of that, as he is the big vote-puller for the entire Brexit movement. If Corbyn ditched Starmer and gave the vacant job to a Farge offered a Labour ticket - then Labour would easily win a thumping majority at the next election… But… Labour don’t actually want to win power - do they? Blair dropped “Clause 4” seen to be “unthinkable” at the time - but he did it, and got elected three times, stepping down before he could lose one. I doubt if there is even a remote possibility that Labour could reach out to Farage, as they’ve just slammed him down too far and too long already to take that back…
Labour is a socialist party - there’s no “trojan horse” about it, Labour’s socialist agenda is what it says on the tin. And I welcome the turn against the EU in other member states, because it means Corbyn will have friends in pushing for radical reform, whereas the EU bureaucracy (so far as it resists change) will have enemies in every single member state. Because I do think the Tory liberals who have a stranglehold on it, and who have a stranglehold in most member states, need to be smashed. The EU would reach out to a newly-elected Labour, I suspect by offering “easy terms” borrowing for all their spending plans. Because that “represents the easy path into darkness” - my guess is that Labour will take such an offer, and do the EU’s bidding forver and ever Amen, including legislating against anyone continuing to bang the drum for Brexit after that date. It is therefore vital for Britain’s sake and what few good parts are still left of the British Labour Party - to destroy the EU before it destroys the British Worker, by subverting what was once it’s own Labour Party.
Whereas the Tories here have no supporters anywhere in any other member state, and they have neither the interest nor the intent in pursuing reforms that are favourable to the working class.
The Tories probably DO have support from other EU member states, but alas Theresa May’s shift to the center has already alienated them. She stands alone in this quest to sell out Britain to the continent’s Globalist Centerists running on some kind of Socialist Empire Ticket. Gorbachev was CORRECT of course!
