Juddian:
I think some of the auto luvvies only go ro RDC’s and reverse gently in unlimited space on billiard smooth surfaces.
Well I don’t. From reversing off high streets to butchers shops, to muddy building sites on residential streets, up hills down hills to places in Ireland that make anywhere in the UK look easy and not to mention on and off ferries all over the place I have not had a problem with an autos at all. With a bit of practise anyone can precision reverse an auto, I can hitch up with my auto Scania a lot more smoothly than most chaps can in a manual.
I ran for a long while with a fleet of auto Scanias switchlogic, we did piling work all them lads where old hands the opinion of most of them was the auto Scanias where utter rubbish, I’ve only driven a 6x4 auto Scania unit Myself it too was a joke, I’m pleased your happy with yours but I would’nt go for a packet of ■■■■ in one…
Well the problem with most of the older drivers is they will approach the autos determined to hate them and so hate them they do. They never give them a chance or learn how to drive them properly. You approach a truck in this manner and you never will get the best out of it. Work with an auto and you can have just as good a drive as any manual. It just means being a bit more open minded about things.
Juddian:
I think some of the auto luvvies only go ro RDC’s and reverse gently in unlimited space on billiard smooth surfaces.
Well I don’t. From reversing off high streets to butchers shops, to muddy building sites on residential streets, up hills down hills to places in Ireland that make anywhere in the UK look easy and not to mention on and off ferries all over the place I have not had a problem with an autos at all. With a bit of practise anyone can precision reverse an auto, I can hitch up with my auto Scania a lot more smoothly than most chaps can in a manual.
I ran for a long while with a fleet of auto Scanias switchlogic, we did piling work all them lads where old hands the opinion of most of them was the auto Scanias where utter rubbish, I’ve only driven a 6x4 auto Scania unit Myself it too was a joke, I’m pleased your happy with yours but I would’nt go for a packet of ■■■■ in one…
Well the problem with most of the older drivers is they will approach the autos determined to hate them and so hate them they do. They never give them a chance or learn how to drive them properly. You approach a truck in this manner and you never will get the best out of it. Work with an auto and you can have just as good a drive as any manual. It just means being a bit more open minded about things.
Well im not one of the older drivers, i remember we got a 1989 new EPS on hire and none of our drivers liked it but i thought it was ok ,but that had a clutch pedal ,its been mentioned that you can hold a Daf on the accelerator pedal and keep it still ,well all i can say is that we had a large fleet of Daf autos and we must have been unlucky because none of us could hold them on the accelerator maybe they were set up wrong or we were just crap drivers but if you can hold them on the accelerator why do they now fit a button on the dash for hill starts the accelerator on ours were like an on/off switch no inbetween
Juddian:
I think some of the auto luvvies only go ro RDC’s and reverse gently in unlimited space on billiard smooth surfaces.
Well I don’t. From reversing off high streets to butchers shops, to muddy building sites on residential streets, up hills down hills to places in Ireland that make anywhere in the UK look easy and not to mention on and off ferries all over the place I have not had a problem with an autos at all. With a bit of practise anyone can precision reverse an auto, I can hitch up with my auto Scania a lot more smoothly than most chaps can in a manual.
I ran for a long while with a fleet of auto Scanias switchlogic, we did piling work all them lads where old hands the opinion of most of them was the auto Scanias where utter rubbish, I’ve only driven a 6x4 auto Scania unit Myself it too was a joke, I’m pleased your happy with yours but I would’nt go for a packet of ■■■■ in one…
Well the problem with most of the older drivers is they will approach the autos determined to hate them and so hate them they do. They never give them a chance or learn how to drive them properly. You approach a truck in this manner and you never will get the best out of it. Work with an auto and you can have just as good a drive as any manual. It just means being a bit more open minded about things.
Well im not one of the older drivers, i remember we got a 1989 new EPS on hire and none of our drivers liked it but i thought it was ok ,but that had a clutch pedal ,its been mentioned that you can hold a Daf on the accelerator pedal and keep it still ,well all i can say is that we had a large fleet of Daf autos and we must have been unlucky because none of us could hold them on the accelerator maybe they were set up wrong or we were just crap drivers but if you can hold them on the accelerator why do they now fit a button on the dash for hill starts the accelerator on ours were like an on/off switch no inbetween
It’s got nothing to do with an age issue.Anyone who’d prefer a proper 13 or 18 speed fuller could say exactly the same thing about anyone who’d prefer to drive something with an auto box over a decent constant mesh manual one.It just means being a bit more open minded.Work with a decent constant mesh box and it’s a better drive than any synchro or auto.The fact is a computer linked to an automated manual can’t really be programmed to work the same way or as good as the link between the human brain and left leg to do clutch control for slow speed manouvering.A human with an open mind who wants to work with it can shift a proper fuller as good as any computer can.A torque converter type auto is ok in the right environment,which isn’t road going standard weight haulage trucks and costs more for the privilege of doing the job the driver can do.
If it’s all about open mindedness then it should be a matter of choice anyway in which case fly sheet’s guvnor should order the wagons on that basis according to what the driver prefers if there’s as many drivers as there are trucks.If not then it will have to be a democratic decision and I can’t believe that the majority of drivers,at least those across the Atlantic,at least those with two arms and legs,would prefer an auto over a proper fuller unless it’s heavy haulage or local rubbish collections.
Although I could be wrong.
As for here how do the young drivers know wether or not they’d prefer a proper fuller or not if they’ve never even been given the chance to drive one because the so called ‘open minded’ lot don’t want them to be given the choice.
Juddian:
I think some of the auto luvvies only go ro RDC’s and reverse gently in unlimited space on billiard smooth surfaces.
Well I don’t. From reversing off high streets to butchers shops, to muddy building sites on residential streets, up hills down hills to places in Ireland that make anywhere in the UK look easy and not to mention on and off ferries all over the place I have not had a problem with an autos at all. With a bit of practise anyone can precision reverse an auto, I can hitch up with my auto Scania a lot more smoothly than most chaps can in a manual.
I ran for a long while with a fleet of auto Scanias switchlogic, we did piling work all them lads where old hands the opinion of most of them was the auto Scanias where utter rubbish, I’ve only driven a 6x4 auto Scania unit Myself it too was a joke, I’m pleased your happy with yours but I would’nt go for a packet of ■■■■ in one…
Well the problem with most of the older drivers is they will approach the autos determined to hate them and so hate them they do. They never give them a chance or learn how to drive them properly. You approach a truck in this manner and you never will get the best out of it. Work with an auto and you can have just as good a drive as any manual. It just means being a bit more open minded about things.
I am A, not old & B, I am not narrow minded, I got into My new I-shift Volvo after hearing they where the bees knees & put all other autos to shame, which in fairness to Volvo after seeing Scanias & MANs attempts it would’nt have been a difficult job shaming either of them. I don’t like it, I think its overated & I also think its spoilt a good truck. As for the manner I approach a truck in well in all honesty what would You know about that? If your really so enammered with your Scania auto that in itself explains a lot about You to Me, thanks for input though…
Hi.All,
I see the debate still , and I suspect always will, rumbles on. Auto’s or manuals. Some people will always prefer a manual, some like an auto - box. IMHO an auto does add a little element of making the job a tad easier , one less thing to think about, no matter how many years you have been doing it , whether you are aware of stirring the stick or not some part of your brain has to make the decision to do it. It might just be that one day that part of your brain may be dealing with something else, so something goes by the wayside and possibly , just might be a factor towards an accident.
I agree it is a pleasure to go to work with a Fuller or a twinsplitter and know that every gear change has been OK and I agree that that is something that the younger drivers are getting less opportunity to practice.
I also agree that manufacturers have ,as previously said by another member,apparently forced the issue of auto boxes,but I believe they cost more to the operator,( but the operator thinks that less drivetrain wear will equal that out), so they make more money for the manufacturer, and that is what they are in business for.
After many years on auto-boxes I have recently had a few days back on a manual, I wasn’t elated, it didn’t make me vow never to drive an auto again.
I think there is a place for auto 's and for manuals, the key is if you get to drive the one you prefer.
I’m a bit disturbed at the thought of holding any lorry on a hill by anything other than the brakes, you murder a clutch like that, manual or auto shift
Hi all,
A few years ago, I called into see a mate in Salisbury, they run I shift volvo’s on bulk work.he showed me the damage that had been done to an fh gearbox/clutch after the driver had “held it on the throttle” On a steep incline in a quarry,suffice to say It was not a pretty sight and 10 grand later the fh was mobile!
Regards Andrew.
newmercman:
I’m a bit disturbed at the thought of holding any lorry on a hill by anything other than the brakes, you murder a clutch like that, manual or auto shift
A hill start is a combination of a decent low gear and let the clutch in at the same time as the brakes are released.But at the point between where the brakes are released and the wagon starts moving forward it’s certainly being held by the clutch not the brakes or it either won’t go anywhere or it would roll back and the clutch has to be gradually engaged,although admittedly as sharply as possible,not just dumped or the engine will just bog down and stall amongst other driveline shocks.
The important thing that makes the difference between murdering the clutch or not is choosing a decent low gear.It’s the ones who choose a gear that’s too high who take miles off it by slipping it excessively and then cooking it especially in something like the situation of being in a queue of traffic at traffic lights on a sharp incline with the need to make multiple hill starts at max weight.In that type of extreme situation,at least,there’s probably no real advantage in what the automated manual could do compared to a reasonable driver.
The same applies to slow shunting in awkward places.The clutch isn’t really just dumped on an in or out basis in that situation but it’s important to be in a good low gear to keep the amount of slippage needed to an absolute minimum .In either case what is it that an automated manual can do that the driver can’t .
On a hill start the clutch slip only holds the vehicle stationary for a second at most, or it should if done correctly, then you move off If you do this in a low enough gear, then the clutch slip is minimal
When I’m loaded I always pull away in first gear, no throttle, just ease up on the left pedal until the clutch is fully engaged and then straight into the next gear, this would be usually be 2hi or 3rd depending on the gearbox, then hit the carpet with the right pedal until I’m approaching the upper end of the torque curve and onto the next gear, skip shifting until the top two ratios
I have too much mechanical sympathy to even consider holding a lorry on the clutch, in heavy traffic on a hill I just pick a really low gear, sometimes crawler and try to keep rolling all the time, if people start diving in the gap I leave, so what, it doesn’t cost much time and I may end up with a decent pair of legs and a short skirt alongside me at some point
newmercman:
On a hill start the clutch slip only holds the vehicle stationary for a second at most, or it should if done correctly, then you move off If you do this in a low enough gear, then the clutch slip is minimal
When I’m loaded I always pull away in first gear, no throttle, just ease up on the left pedal until the clutch is fully engaged and then straight into the next gear, this would be usually be 2hi or 3rd depending on the gearbox, then hit the carpet with the right pedal until I’m approaching the upper end of the torque curve and onto the next gear, skip shifting until the top two ratios
I have too much mechanical sympathy to even consider holding a lorry on the clutch, in heavy traffic on a hill I just pick a really low gear, sometimes crawler and try to keep rolling all the time, if people start diving in the gap I leave, so what, it doesn’t cost much time and I may end up with a decent pair of legs and a short skirt alongside me at some point
That’s something like what I’m saying ( learn’t by queueing in traffic going up the old Reigate Hill in the rush hour before 9 am from around halfway all the way up to the roundabout at the top with that old Clydesadale at max weight with some heavy plant on not to mention the 1:3 test hill at Chobham with some manual wagons not autos ) but just dropping the clutch on the idling engine wouldn’t have worked nor trying to keep it rolling without stopping each time with the queue but unfortunately I can’t remember any fit birds in short skirts walking up that hill to make up for the effort of that heavy clutch.
But the question remains in that case with a driver who knows what they’re doing what is it that an automated manual would do that the driver wouldn’t be able to with a conventional type box and if it’s a driver that doesn’t know what they’re doing then if they don’t wreck the thing by killing it’s clutch then they’ll surely find a way of wrecking it some other way.
newmercman:
I’m a bit disturbed at the thought of holding any lorry on a hill by anything other than the brakes, you murder a clutch like that, manual or auto shift [/
The same applies to slow shunting in awkward places.The clutch isn’t really just dumped on an in or out basis in that situation but it’s important to be in a good low gear to keep the amount of slippage needed to an absolute minimum .In either case what is it that an automated manual can do that the driver can’t .
Right you got the drift it’s not an automatic gearbox as in an Alison it’s just an ordinary manual gearbox with an automated gear change and automated clutch. So say your on an incline you are in a as in automatic you have your foot on the brake pedal and the control is in effect doing what you would be doing if you had the truck in gear with your foot holding the clutch pedal down. You take your foot off the brake pedal the truck rolls back same as in a manual with your foot on the clutch.
You take your foot of the break and give it a slight bit of throttle the truck won’t move same as if you let the clutch up slightly on a manual you could hold the vehicle still. However you do this over a period of time regularly you are going to fry the clutch in a manual or auto.
As nmm says it’s not really a full auto and to get the best performance of the truck a little input from the driver will get the best from it. I’d say Volvo has the best set up and 99% of the time it is fine left to it’s own devices but the zf system needs more input from the driver to get the best from it.
Carryfast:
But the question remains in that case with a driver who knows what they’re doing what is it that an automated manual would do that the driver wouldn’t be able to with a conventional type box and if it’s a driver that doesn’t know what they’re doing then if they don’t wreck the thing by killing it’s clutch then they’ll surely find a way of wrecking it some other way.
If you drive all day in big city’s you would know why up and down the motorway a manual where you may only use the splitter switch once you are up to speed not so clearcut.
These days the favourite way of wrecking them seems to be follow the truck in front with a gap of about 4 foot and plough in to the back of it at random.
The fleets love them, they even out fuel costs, that’s the one and only benefit as far as I can see, unless you’re on urban stop start work
They add far too much complication to already overburdened electrical systems (they must be overburdened or they wouldn’t keep breaking ) and they do nothing more than a good driver can do and there’s the answer really, manufacturers spend millions upon millions in making their lorries better, then some clown with a licence jumps behind the wheel and destroys all their hard work, so they remove control from the driver, the fleets like it because they can now get any idiot through the door
I’m a lorry driver, I take great pride in what I do and always try to do it the best I can, making a block downshift in a constant mesh gearbox going down a mountain in the snow and ice and getting it right is not only a safety concern, it also makes me feel pretty good that I can do it without playing tunes
I’m a dying breed though, the licence holders outnumber the lorry drivers and they want/need their arses wiping every mile they do
Juddian:
I think some of the auto luvvies only go ro RDC’s and reverse gently in unlimited space on billiard smooth surfaces.
Well I don’t. From reversing off high streets to butchers shops, to muddy building sites on residential streets, up hills down hills to places in Ireland that make anywhere in the UK look easy and not to mention on and off ferries all over the place I have not had a problem with an autos at all. With a bit of practise anyone can precision reverse an auto, I can hitch up with my auto Scania a lot more smoothly than most chaps can in a manual.
I ran for a long while with a fleet of auto Scanias switchlogic, we did piling work all them lads where old hands the opinion of most of them was the auto Scanias where utter rubbish, I’ve only driven a 6x4 auto Scania unit Myself it too was a joke, I’m pleased your happy with yours but I would’nt go for a packet of ■■■■ in one…
Well the problem with most of the older drivers is they will approach the autos determined to hate them and so hate them they do. They never give them a chance or learn how to drive them properly. You approach a truck in this manner and you never will get the best out of it. Work with an auto and you can have just as good a drive as any manual. It just means being a bit more open minded about things.
I am A, not old & B, I am not narrow minded, I got into My new I-shift Volvo after hearing they where the bees knees & put all other autos to shame, which in fairness to Volvo after seeing Scanias & MANs attempts it would’nt have been a difficult job shaming either of them. I don’t like it, I think its overated & I also think its spoilt a good truck. As for the manner I approach a truck in well in all honesty what would You know about that? If your really so enammered with your Scania auto that in itself explains a lot about You to Me, thanks for input though…
Oh dear oh dear where to start. You mentioned ‘old hands’ so I talked about older drivers. The ‘you’ was a general ‘you’, not aimed at anyone in particular. So if you care to read it again I was not making a statement about how YOU approach a truck, rather making a statement about people approaching trucks the wrong way. Thanks for your input though, your reply tells me a lot about you, namely that like everyone else on this bloody forum you read things that aren’t there. So much for my brief foray into the old codgers forum, have fun whining about the present and telling each other how amazing the past was…
Basically the i shift in the volvo is a 6 speed constant mesh box not dissimilar to the ones we had in the AECs years ago but with a big difference the i shift has a range change on the back of it giving it 12 gears and at the front of the box an air opperated clutch brake to slow the box down ,it has a manual clutch opperated by the ecu and it selects its gears through the air bag pressure via another ecu.The biggest problem with the early ones was the release arm bearing wearing away but its been upgraded now the firm i work for run about 50 volvo,s.yes the whole job has been deskilled nowadays but with all the traffic and all the idiots on the roads today if we still had the AECetc you,d never get your work done.
Looks like you ve made another friend there Cooperman, logic more like illogic our friend Mr. Hindle had many instances of his auto boxed crap rolling back on hill starts into the vehicle behind,expensive and not all his drivers were in experienced Lets go back to my army days if you broke the egg behind the back wheels on a hill start you failed, i ll defyanyone with an auto box not to break the egg and that includes you me little Irish wonder Swichlogic. Icidentally apart from that monumental disaster in Turkey the average clutch life in our F89s was 9 years. Not bad for a bunch of don t know any betters. Rgards Crow.
Tell you what Geoff,I always thought a manual box was better than an auto,that was until I drove one.I had a DAF xf 105 with an auto and I drove it all over Scandinavia up to the north of Norway, Sweden and Finland.I never had any problems, except for reversing up hill and into tight spaces with a heavy load, then the alarm bells would ring about the clutch overheating but nevertheless it still still did the job even with the alarm sounding.When driving in auto you can still change gear manually as well if you want to.I found it the best of both worlds.Having said that it’s each to their own way of thinking,there’s a place for both.
I feel unpopular now Geoff now switchlogic has called Me old & has left the thread, I’m the same never been one for needing clutches in lorries I had mither in the T reg Transcon but got it home from Cezch starting it on the key did 4 drops of yarn round the spinners & got it back to Warrington…
I’m off back in today after two weeks off & am going to approach my i-shift with an empty head
Once got me F88 from Wolverhampton to Chopwell Tyne & Wear (aprox 200mls) no clutch at all (slave cylinder had siezed) & my most loved Wagon over the yrs was a limited edition Sed Atk Strato 410■■■■■■■ eaton twin splitter.Wonder if this makes me a proper Lorry Driver Maybe this is the reason I like Autos now ,not having to use my left leg
.In either case what is it that an automated manual can do that the driver can’t 
. 
