I-shifts & other auto box attrocities

[ramone]

billybigrig:

ramone:
With respect ,why dont we or i should i say,have the same problems with the i shift has i do with the ZF,i mentioned earlier that Maritime have gone back to manuals on their Dafs but are sticking with the i shift on the Volvos, i think a very valid point was made a few days back that they are so complex now that you have to take them back to the dealer for fault finding at great expense,by the way i drive a S60 geartronic and never use it in manual i dont see the point it makes seamless changes all by itself

The I-shift is the best one perhaps because, as someone else said, it’s an in house jobby not a bolt on ■■ As little a problem as I had with the DAF and MAN they’re not a patch on my I-shift. I have had a wee twiddle about in Axor with the 12 speed auto and that’s not quite up to I shift but ■■■■ close.

All of the above have pluses and minuses for us from a comfort, practicality and operational point of view.

I have the only I shift and pull faces if I have to go out in anyone elses I will get to choose it’s replacement (foisted upon me by LEZ, MAUT and there ugly cousins) which is in the next 6 months. They were nervous about it being all new fangled and expensive to fix with us being a small outfit but it’s 8 years old and just keeps on ticking (99% certain it’s on it’s original clutch). Interestingly the previous driver in it had poor fuel figures and the boss could do no better. The previous driver taught him how to drive it

I’ve tutored him properly now and although he can’t match me he’s 1.5 mpg up personally and I’m a shade under 2.8 (we run fairly light so not as impressive as it sounds)

I’m loathed to part with it. Euro 3 no adblue nonsense, analogue tacho, I shift and never let me down

I found that when we got the first batch of Dafs requiring ad blue we started with new problems it may be a coincidence but warning lights were much more common the emissions light was a regular but i know totally unrelated we got quite alot of abs/ebs lights on too and the auto ad blue Dafs if you started them too quickly it threw all sorts of warnings up , go for another volvo or a manual scania

[tony_taylor]

I think it would be interesting to have some input from some of the agency drivers out there.They are jumping from truck to truck nearly everyday with a variety of different engines and gearboxes and are probably in a good position to assess the pros & cons of the different systems.

[billybigrig]

ramone:
I found that when we got the first batch of Dafs requiring ad blue we started with new problems it may be a coincidence but warning lights were much more common the emissions light was a regular but i know totally unrelated we got quite alot of abs/ebs lights on too and the auto ad blue Dafs if you started them too quickly it threw all sorts of warnings up , go for another volvo or a manual scania

I know what you mean. Some folk have no worries with the DAF, others nothing but, especially with the adblue side of things. We wouldn’t use much running light so it would be in the tank longer and that brings concerns of crystallization etc. I know the DAFs are especially prone to throw the ABS bing bong thing up. I don’t know if anyone ever told you to switch the ignition off when coupling up a DAF ■■ That seems to solve the warning thing a lot of the time. Of course the catwalk light is usually on the ignition so …

I wouldn’t mind trying a Scanny with the 2 pedal opticruise, I never liked the 3 pedal one so much We used to be an all Scania fleet but the local dealer is a bit far away and was very hit and miss to be honest. We have a good local Scania guy that did them out of warranty but a new one I think would have to be a dealer jobby. shame as they’ve got a brilliant deal on the R560 at the moment

A tidy euro 4/5 R500 would be a good bulletproof bet I would think. Manual but running light it wouldn’t need a lot of stick stirring

[lawrence_dunbar]

Tony Taylor:
I think it would be interesting to have some input from some of the agency drivers out there.They are jumping from truck to truck nearly everyday with a variety of different engines and gearboxes and are probably in a good position to assess the pros & cons of the different systems.

You have got to be having a laugh, Agencie drivers giving you info on engines & gearboxes , give me strength, Ive met some of these so called agencie gennasers & take it from me pal there are a breed of their own, & I think its better to keep it that way, Regards Larry.

[tony_taylor]

I have only driven Volvo i shift once, and a DAF XF 105,which I had for 2 years and I can honestly say the only thing that irritated me with the DAF was reversing uphill into a tight spot when fully freighted,after a couple of minutes the clutch overheating warning light would flash and the ding, ding, ding start,but it still did the job despite that.For all the rest I have no complaints,it never broke down once.The only time it was in the garage was for service and one time for a defective digi tacho.I’ve seen quite a lot of compaints about DAF on this thread,so there must have been a problem with some of them, maybe I was just lucky and got a Wednesday one instead of a Monday one.

[tony_taylor]

Lawrence Dunbar:

Tony Taylor:
I think it would be interesting to have some input from some of the agency drivers out there.They are jumping from truck to truck nearly everyday with a variety of different engines and gearboxes and are probably in a good position to assess the pros & cons of the different systems.

You have got to be having a laugh, Agencie drivers giving you info on engines & gearboxes , give me strength, Ive met some of these so called agencie gennasers & take it from me pal there are a breed of their own, & I think its better to keep it that way, Regards Larry.

Sorry Larry,you’re right,I knew I’d made a mistake as soon as I pressed the submit key.

[billybigrig]

Tony Taylor:
I have only driven Volvo i shift once, and a DAF XF 105,which I had for 2 years and I can honestly say the only thing that irritated me with the DAF was reversing uphill into a tight spot when fully freighted,after a couple of minutes the clutch overheating warning light would flash and the ding, ding, ding start,but it still did the job despite that.For all the rest I have no complaints,it never broke down once.The only time it was in the garage was for service and one time for a defective digi tacho.I’ve seen quite a lot of compaints about DAF on this thread,so there must have been a problem with some of them, maybe I was just lucky and got a Wednesday one instead of a Monday one.

Years ago a guy I worked for got a fleet of new MANs. Some were flyers some rubbish. When my mate got a particularly gutless one it went in and they found the accelerator sensor was only going up to something like 60% application. The rest all went for the same check and no 2 were the same

[juddian]

billybigrig:

ramone:

I wouldn’t mind trying a Scanny with the 2 pedal opticruise, I never liked the 3 pedal one so much We used to be an all Scania fleet but the local dealer is a bit far away and was very hit and miss to be honest. We have a good local Scania guy that did them out of warranty but a new one I think would have to be a dealer jobby. shame as they’ve got a brilliant deal on the R560 at the moment

I’ve had both, had a 3 pedal for 3 years and now regularly drive 2 pedal jobbies.

In both cases i only ever drive these things in manual and then in MH, the gears shift faster than in normal M…well they did in the 3 pedal so i automatically use MH in the newer stuff.

If i had the choice though i’d have the 3 pedal everytime.

The only reason being i can control the clutch for manoeuvering, the 2 pedal i have to get in some seriously tight spots and at 44t, one of which is up a steep incline across a staggered junction on the blind side, that place sorts out the good and bad, i find the gearbox wants to fully engage drive instead of maintaining the gentle movement, trouble is as you enter the premises you are between a barrier, skip to the other side and various sharp tank wrecking objects at all angles as you go back and the unit is still down the inline, only got about 3" to play with either side…ooer missus… so slow and gentle does it, but the truck don’t want to play.

Took a manual CF in there and, guess what, just breezed in.

Theres a short story as to why i drive 'em in manual only, had to deliver a couple of cars to garage at Stroud, as you leave the garage you climb a steep hill to set of lights, only had the Scania about 3 weeks, turning left at the lights the bloody thing decied to change gear on the turn, course the heap took gawd knows how long to change by which time all momentum was lost and the sod stalled on me across the lights…
From that moment manual override only, and the best fuel consumption of the depot fleet to boot.

Had a FM auto before that, not a problem even at the same drop, reckon i used manual maybe twice in all the time i had it, but strewth that motor liked a drink.

[geoffthecrowtaylor]

Juddian,I suppose the pros and cons of one against the other will reverberate until we ve all got fed up with it, i m not an auto driver only had one for 4 days not long enough to get used to it, did not like it at all never felt that i was 100 percent in control of it, i am an old school driverand never was at a loss with amanual. The technicalities being quoted here are way beyond what a driver is expected to know, input sensors output sensors computer this computer that, your average jockey or SWA is not interested, does it go or not if it does nt ring this no. not my problem I m still on pay.I think that autos spell the death of the owner driver and we can only hope that one day the designers or that self opinionated berk Logic will get it right. Crow.

[carryfast]

geoffthecrowtaylor:
i am an old school driverand never was at a loss with amanual.I think that autos spell the death of the owner driver . Crow.

^ This.

[juddian]

geoffthecrowtaylor:
I think that autos spell the death of the owner driver and we can only hope that one day the designers or that self opinionated berk Logic will get it right. Crow.

Hi Crow…Owner driver…hmm i did obtain me O licence in a previous life but circs combined and i didn’t go ahead, just as well me first missus would have cleaned up, pint of hindsight please barman and turn the clock back 38 years if you’d be so kind… .

If i was to get me own now, i like most OD’s would want simple, i’d look carefully at Hino so manual it would be, simple and well proved is my thing, if it aint broke etc, though i’d probably end up with a manual Axor, driven the auto version regularly, oh dear me no, another basically good simple rugged lorry ruined by the poxy gearbox.

I’ve driven autos nearly full time since 05, not personally broke down but when i was on holiday my regular Scania gave up the ghost and had to have a new control unit when the inside gubbins melted, apparently common.

I’ve driven Daf, MAN and Iveco with the ZF auto, and theres not a lot to choose between them, all bloody useless, worse in Dafs case cos the box ruins what is otherwise a cracking underrated motor in CF460 guise IMO, in the other two cases they’ve lost the plot anyway, too much electric crap to go wrong, which does.

EDIT…ah no, forgot these, had an MAN auto go into shut down mode on me twice.
Got stuck in half an inch of snow, yes i know but try rocking a vehicle that takes about 10 seconds to go from forard to reverse, looked a right twerp , after about 10 minutes of this the gearbox overheated at -5’ ouside and had to shut down for an hour to let it cool…
Few months later another MAN coming out of London couldn’t cope with the stop start traffic and the gearbox shut down again, half an hour this time.
And if you don’t select crawler to tight turn a fully freighted MAN the gearbox will change gear and the engine won’t cope cos it hasn’t any low speed guts, it will also change gear mid roundabout every single time unless you lock it in manual…might as well have a proper bloody box with all that ■■■■■■ about.

Never had anything like this with Volvo.

I’m not a fan of auto’s though, well actually i am when the auto is a real fully hydraulic torque converter auto, lovely when in a proper car with a 6cyl plus engine.

I confess though that Volvos auto box i am really impressed with, without fail the lorry is in the right gear every time, engine good will pull strongly from low revs, drove a new one this week and its still as good as ever box wise, what makes the truck good though is the superb retarder, and the good box works seamlessly with that retarder for almost no braking controlled deceleration, surprised DSA instructors haven’t banned it…they got shares in brake lining factories or what?.

So don’t tell anyone but if i was going to buy new then a FM, yes and fitted with the auto, would actually be on my short list.
Mind you the reason i’d have the Volvo (not Scania) as auto is because none of these Swedish motors have a nice to use manual box…if i could have a Fuller or Eaton TS then… .

[tony_taylor]

I don’t think any-one on this topic has said that auto boxes are superior to modern manual boxes,I agree with that.There’s 3 opinions here,those that like them,those that do not and those that are flexible enough to work with both.As you said Geoff 4 days isn’t really long enough to assess the merits or demerits of any kind of autobox, or any manual box for that matter.The overwhelming opinion is that these boxes are here to stay,and I believe they are,so like it or lump it you’d better get used to them.Truck manufacturers have been adding supplimentary parts to trucks ever since trucks were first built e.g power steering, air brakes,heaters etc.etc.I agree with you Geoff, it probably will sound the death knell for o/d’s,which will be a great pity because I think that they are amonst the hardest working in the transport industy,but the truck manufacturers are not going to reverse their policies just because some drivers don’t like auto shift gearboxes and all the headaches that they seem to bring.The days of me and you getting our overalls on and fixing our own trucks have gone,they’ll never come back bruv no matter how much we kick and scream.

[geoffthecrowtaylor]

The auto I drove Tony was one of those crap Renaults for Hindle for most of the time I used manual if you left it in auto it changed up far to soon and doing that paper job to disley ordinary A roads and that bloody narrow road from Marple to the factory forget auto keep it in manual. The only reason I was driving it was because that lovely little CF Daf with spot on ZF 16 speed box was off road with broken cam follower and MOT. I t would lose those auto boxes any way up. Crow.BTW have you seen the pic of OOG on ME 166.

[tony_taylor]

geoffthecrowtaylor:
The auto I drove Tony was one of those crap Renaults for Hindle for most of the time I used manual if you left it in auto it changed up far to soon and doing that paper job to disley ordinary A roads and that bloody narrow road from Marple to the factory forget auto keep it in manual. The only reason I was driving it was because that lovely little CF Daf with spot on ZF 16 speed box was off road with broken cam follower and MOT. I t would lose those auto boxes any way up. Crow.BTW have you seen the pic of OOG on ME 166.

Yeah,I 've seen the pic of OOG,she looks quite nice don’t she.What’s that on front wheel? it looks a bit like an air line.Ah, when I look again its just some kind of plant.I like the RR on the door.OOG was the first truck I took over the water,a load of tyres to Amsterdam,a non sleeper with a couchette hinged to the back wall.The engine cover had been redesigned by Rolls and it was completely flat.It had a mark 2 Eagle in it and(please don’t tell carryfast) a 9 speed FULLER.All in all a hybrid,but you drove it all over everywhere,it had quite some adventures didn’t it.

[ramone]

geoffthecrowtaylor:
Juddian,I suppose the pros and cons of one against the other will reverberate until we ve all got fed up with it, i m not an auto driver only had one for 4 days not long enough to get used to it, did not like it at all never felt that i was 100 percent in control of it, i am an old school driverand never was at a loss with amanual. The technicalities being quoted here are way beyond what a driver is expected to know, input sensors output sensors computer this computer that, your average jockey or SWA is not interested, does it go or not if it does nt ring this no. not my problem I m still on pay.I think that autos spell the death of the owner driver and we can only hope that one day the designers or that self opinionated berk Logic will get it right. Crow.

I dont think its anything to do with being old school Geoff an experienced driver like yourself can adapt to anything , i think they aren`t fit for purpose and have been introduced far too early and you hit the nail bang on the head when you say that you never feel 100 % in control thats exactly how i felt never knowing what it was going to do next and that cant be right in this day and age

[juddian]

ramone:

geoffthecrowtaylor:

you never feel 100 % in control thats exactly how i felt never knowing what it was going to do next and that cant be right in this day and age

I think thats what those in charge want, standardisation, the lorry is to be in charge, the only input required from the driver is to steer it, brake when needed and only by brake…no other auxilliary braking is to be used, you may accelerate when needed but the vehicle will decide the gear to be used.

As i wrote that i slipped into a Russian type accent in what loosely passes for me mind, should have followed each instruction up with ‘‘comrade’’…

Lowest common denominator rules, theres a sizeable number of licence holders out there who wouldn’t have a bloody clue what we’ve been chopsing about in this interesting thread, in the new world of equal opportunities and PC we should all dumb down to the lowest level, its happened in too many sections of this country, target set low all receive prizes.

[ramone]

Juddian:

ramone:

geoffthecrowtaylor:

you never feel 100 % in control thats exactly how i felt never knowing what it was going to do next and that cant be right in this day and age

I think thats what those in charge want, standardisation, the lorry is to be in charge, the only input required from the driver is to steer it, brake when needed and only by brake…no other auxilliary braking is to be used, you may accelerate when needed but the vehicle will decide the gear to be used.

As i wrote that i slipped into a Russian type accent in what loosely passes for me mind, should have followed each instruction up with ‘‘comrade’’…

Lowest common denominator rules, theres a sizeable number of licence holders out there who wouldn’t have a bloody clue what we’ve been chopsing about in this interesting thread, in the new world of equal opportunities and PC we should all dumb down to the lowest level, its happened in too many sections of this country, target set low all receive prizes.

Yeah i can agree with that ,i find everythings got a method or way to do it now ,not the common sense way a method thats pc even down to the correct way of climbing in and out of the cab

[newmercman]

Juddian:
Lowest common denominator rules, theres a sizeable number of licence holders out there who wouldn’t have a bloody clue what we’ve been chopsing about in this interesting thread, in the new world of equal opportunities and PC we should all dumb down to the lowest level, its happened in too many sections of this country, target set low all receive prizes.

100% in agreement with that Juddian

[geoffthecrowtaylor]

Greek I m afraid that i m claiming the bragging rights. I m at Aosta on the way home loaded but not super heavy, I m driving Ragnar the N reg F89,it s friday night and we ve no clutch hydraulics,what to do, i take off the master cylinder which is the problem complete with the clutch pedal nobody here can fix this. So we re off early in the in the morning changing gears by numbers . Now don t forget no clutch pedal no splitter overdrive if you prefer so we re engaging high ratio before I go anywhere knock the lever forward with the jack handle,sorted. We vegot 3 stops to the tunnel 1 out of autoport 1 Italian customs 1 tunnel peage.You know the drill engine off engage 1st gear park brake off foot brake left foot simultaneously turn key and release foot brake away we go no broken eggs, how are we going to change gear simple this is a synchro box alittle more difficult than a cm increase speed let your foot off the loud pedal and she ll come out of gear pull it straight into your next gear so on and so on range change not a problem. So we ve done it thru the tunnel next stop Cluses.In those days the Ski slope was nt built so 2 way traffic up and down. Done Cluses dont forget its saturday now but i know there s a Volvo dealer right next to the motorway just past Bonneville, cruise in there walk into the workshop with the offending article still complete with clutchpedal criesof Zut alors sacre bleu incroyable. they smack a new seal and rubbers no not french letters Irefit it all and they bleed it up with there portable pressuriser. Sorted not that expensive i m off to the Bakehouse.The sole reason for posting this Greek is not to deny you your bragging rights but as this is an auto box thread do I qualify for having the very first 2 pedal Volvo work that out Logic regards to all Crow.

[ramone]

geoffthecrowtaylor:
Greek I m afraid that i m claiming the bragging rights. I m at Aosta on the way home loaded but not super heavy, I m driving Ragnar the N reg F89,it s friday night and we ve no clutch hydraulics,what to do, i take off the master cylinder which is the problem complete with the clutch pedal nobody here can fix this. So we re off early in the in the morning changing gears by numbers . Now don t forget no clutch pedal no splitter overdrive if you prefer so we re engaging high ratio before I go anywhere knock the lever forward with the jack handle,sorted. We vegot 3 stops to the tunnel 1 out of autoport 1 Italian customs 1 tunnel peage.You know the drill engine off engage 1st gear park brake off foot brake left foot simultaneously turn key and release foot brake away we go no broken eggs, how are we going to change gear simple this is a synchro box alittle more difficult than a cm increase speed let your foot off the loud pedal and she ll come out of gear pull it straight into your next gear so on and so on range change not a problem. So we ve done it thru the tunnel next stop Cluses.In those days the Ski slope was nt built so 2 way traffic up and down. Done Cluses dont forget its saturday now but i know there s a Volvo dealer right next to the motorway just past Bonneville, cruise in there walk into the workshop with the offending article still complete with clutchpedal criesof Zut alors sacre bleu incroyable. they smack a new seal and rubbers no not french letters Irefit it all and they bleed it up with there portable pressuriser. Sorted not that expensive i m off to the Bakehouse.The sole reason for posting this Greek is not to deny you your bragging rights but as this is an auto box thread do I qualify for having the very first 2 pedal Volvo work that out Logic regards to all Crow.

The only thing i can say about that Geoff is the F89 would still be more of a pleasure to drive than an astronic Daf ,(a joke by the way before anyone has a go) i`ve only been over the blanc twice both times after the ski slope was built ,that road coming back down to france must have been tight before the slope was there