youtube.com/watch?v=wDKLoLUQgH0
Really worth watching if you have an interest in electric vs hydrogen vehicles.
Made me a bit convinced that electric trucks are just not as viable as some have claimed.
trouble with hydrogen is at ambient conditions and pressure for every litre you get 0.03kw/h of power petrol is 8.8 and i think diesel is 10kw/h. this means you have to burn 2933.33 litres of hydrogen to get the same amount of power compaired to 1 litre of petrol.
lots of people see the figures compaired with respect to weight and yes i agree i would rather carry 10 litres of hydrogen compaired to 10 of petrol. but in terms of usage its useless i would say.
… to burn 2933.33 litres of hydrogen. Is that liquid hydrogen? i.e. quote as mass not volume
I suppose it would put an end to the fuel fairies though.
Hydrogen fuelled internal combustion engines tick the right boxes.
The downside is a lot more energy needed to produce it than it contains.
Expensive nuke fuelled electric in most cases so nothing gained there in terms of safety or cost.
In addition to, at face value, loads more water vapour emissions from both power station cooling towers and the hydrogen itself at point of use regardless fuel cell or combustion engine, which really is a proper greenhouse gas.
We need a U turn on the zero Carbon agenda and quick before the climate zealots do some real damage in the form of a Chernobyl combined with turning the place into a big sauna.
Hydrogen needn’t be produced from nuclear power, we have acres of wind farms, their power could be diverted to produce hydrogen when their input isn’t needed for the national grid.
Zac_A:
Hydrogen needn’t be produced from nuclear power, we have acres of wind farms, their power could be diverted to produce hydrogen when their input isn’t needed for the national grid.
If that was true the nuclear and biomass energy industries wouldn’t have a stake in this brave new all electric future and France would have closed down most of it’s reactors in favour of wind power for safety reasons.
As opposed to more than 50% combined to keep Al Gore’s retirment income plan on track when the wind isn’t blowing.
As it stands electric has just gone up from 16p per kwh to 26p per kwh + taxes + the energy conversion losses of hydrogen.
As opposed to around 12p per kwh including road fuel taxation for diesel.
LPG would be a good compromise for trucks.
Optimum:
… to burn 2933.33 litres of hydrogen. Is that liquid hydrogen? i.e. quote as mass not volume
as its at ambient temp i guess its gas;) and as hydrogen is aprox 50 times lighter than petrol if i remember correctly then wany figures are useless unless that is factored in.
Meanwhile here in the USA…
Massachusetts will ban the sale of new cars powered by gasoline and other fossil fuels by 2035, the state announced this weekend in its 2050 Decarbonization Roadmap (PDF). It’s the first state to follow California, which this past September rolled out its plan to stop the sale of any new car with an internal-combustion engine, following a disastrous season of wildfires.
It doesn’t matter if they perfect a hydrogen fueled engine to the state of Massachusetts as it’s still an internal combustion engine isn’t it ? They only want new cars to be electric from 2035 !!!
remy:
Meanwhile here in the USA…Massachusetts will ban the sale of new cars powered by gasoline and other fossil fuels by 2035, the state announced this weekend in its 2050 Decarbonization Roadmap (PDF). It’s the first state to follow California, which this past September rolled out its plan to stop the sale of any new car with an internal-combustion engine, following a disastrous season of wildfires.
It doesn’t matter if they perfect a hydrogen fueled engine to the state of Massachusetts as it’s still an internal combustion engine isn’t it ? They only want new cars to be electric from 2035 !!!
Is it going to be a Federal DOT standard thereby also affecting states like Texas ?.
Can a single state ban anything that’s compliant with DOT standards.
If not that’s obviously a good thing for any state that doesn’t agree with Cali and Mass.
If it’s internal combustion not specifically fossil fuelled IC then it’s obviously got nothing to do with supposed man made ‘climate change’.
As for the link between wildfires and fossil fuel how convenient that it’s all happened in an ‘on message’ state.
Carryfast:
Zac_A:
Hydrogen needn’t be produced from nuclear power, we have acres of wind farms, their power could be diverted to produce hydrogen when their input isn’t needed for the national grid.If that was true…
Optimum:
… to burn 2933.33 litres of hydrogen. Is that liquid hydrogen? i.e. quote as mass not volume
I drove compressed H2 tankers for a while. 198 or 208 bar. Something like that. It was a fair while ago. That’s bad enough, but you really don’t want to ■■■■ around with liquid H2. For starters, you’re going to need sacrificial liquid N2 blankets for your tank.
I Would never right anything off after seeing the leap in power from batteries ,ni cad,nimh .lion ,lipo…staggering
To be honest, I think electric is the way forward for most, if not all transport. It makes sense. It has been used for over a hundred years. Electric motors are much beter than ice motors. Quiet, more torque, much more torque, no need for gearboxes, no oil changes, no filters, no EGR to bypass, no cat or DPF to replace or being nicked.
The pitfalls are big, (power supply by battery or external rail or overhead lines), need for a complete overhaul or indeed build of, a new infrastructure, and the future need to deal with expired batteries. But, those are worked on, and are a matter of time.
Supply of the electric, is a big issue, but one which will be sorted. A combination of wind, solar, and crucially wave and tidal power, enhanced with limited amounts of nuclear, combined with large storage units will be made to work. When Stephenson showed his first train, people were apoplectic, people would die, cows would stop giving milk, house would burn down…
When Otto first showed his internal combustion engine, propelling a carriage, they made him walk a man with a red flag in front, to warn people…
I think long distance electric trucks will get trolley bus like overhead wires or a rail in the road, to get them from a to b, then use a smallish battery to travel from the main road to the final destination. I also think that private ownership of a car, parked on your drive or the works carpark for 97% of the time, will become a thing of the past. Many people living in big cities, already do without a car, partially because of parking problems, partially because of a lack of need. Car will be hired on a ‘as need’ basis.
If I could get a taxi to work, twice a week, for about the same cost as running my own car, but without the hassle of maintaining it, worry about braking down, it being stolen, or somebody crashing into it, I would.
We are all dinosaurs, we like the comfort of what we know, and what we are familiar with. So were the drovers, so were the steam traction engine drivers, so were the stevedore, so were the luddites in the mills.
Change is coming. Wether you like it, or agree with it… 
fuse:
I Would never right anything off after seeing the leap in power from batteries ,ni cad,nimh .lion ,lipo…staggering
That can only help my plan to replace both the Zafira and the Jag with a 3.5t Transit loaded to max with batteries and a 500 + hp leccy motor or two not forgetting enough of the all important super capicitors for the regen braking.Just a lot sooner than I thought.
The deal breaker manual box mated with the motor is more of a problem but I’m working on it.
skell790:
Optimum:
… to burn 2933.33 litres of hydrogen. Is that liquid hydrogen? i.e. quote as mass not volumeI drove compressed H2 tankers for a while. 198 or 208 bar. Something like that. It was a fair while ago.
So did I, it was 228 Bar. If a cylinder pigtail burst or a hose at that pressure the noise was deafening, highly flammable once in contact with air (oxygen) and burns with an almost invisible flame… you can hear it but can’t see it and at that pressure is like an invisible flame thrower. Liquid H2 used to be constantly tracked on the move I remember back in the 90’s.
The Hyundai H2 truck I tried in Switzerland went very well, even fully freighted, so I have to say I was impressed. Big challenge here in the UK is the refuelling infrastructure is limited so far, but I suspect that will be Chicken and egg!
It will be interesting to see how the Mercedes Actros H2 performs
the nodding donkey:
To be honest, I think electric is the way forward for most, if not all transport. It makes sense. It has been used for over a hundred years. Electric motors are much beter than ice motors. Quiet, more torque, much more torque, no need for gearboxes, no oil changes, no filters, no EGR to bypass, no cat or DPF to replace or being nicked.
The pitfalls are big, (power supply by battery or external rail or overhead lines), need for a complete overhaul or indeed build of, a new infrastructure, and the future need to deal with expired batteries. But, those are worked on, and are a matter of time.Supply of the electric, is a big issue, but one which will be sorted. A combination of wind, solar, and crucially wave and tidal power, enhanced with limited amounts of nuclear, combined with large storage units will be made to work. When Stephenson showed his first train, people were apoplectic, people would die, cows would stop giving milk, house would burn down…
When Otto first showed his internal combustion engine, propelling a carriage, they made him walk a man with a red flag in front, to warn people…I think long distance electric trucks will get trolley bus like overhead wires or a rail in the road, to get them from a to b, then use a smallish battery to travel from the main road to the final destination. I also think that private ownership of a car, parked on your drive or the works carpark for 97% of the time, will become a thing of the past. Many people living in big cities, already do without a car, partially because of parking problems, partially because of a lack of need. Car will be hired on a ‘as need’ basis.
If I could get a taxi to work, twice a week, for about the same cost as running my own car, but without the hassle of maintaining it, worry about braking down, it being stolen, or somebody crashing into it, I would.We are all dinosaurs, we like the comfort of what we know, and what we are familiar with. So were the drovers, so were the steam traction engine drivers, so were the stevedore, so were the luddites in the mills.
Change is coming. Wether you like it, or agree with it…
We haven’t even got a fully electrified rail system in this country, so I think the notion of overhead wires on our roads powering HGV’s is for the birds 
bigstraight6:
the nodding donkey:
To be honest, I think electric is the way forward for most, if not all transport. It makes sense. It has been used for over a hundred years. Electric motors are much beter than ice motors. Quiet, more torque, much more torque, no need for gearboxes, no oil changes, no filters, no EGR to bypass, no cat or DPF to replace or being nicked.
The pitfalls are big, (power supply by battery or external rail or overhead lines), need for a complete overhaul or indeed build of, a new infrastructure, and the future need to deal with expired batteries. But, those are worked on, and are a matter of time.Supply of the electric, is a big issue, but one which will be sorted. A combination of wind, solar, and crucially wave and tidal power, enhanced with limited amounts of nuclear, combined with large storage units will be made to work. When Stephenson showed his first train, people were apoplectic, people would die, cows would stop giving milk, house would burn down…
When Otto first showed his internal combustion engine, propelling a carriage, they made him walk a man with a red flag in front, to warn people…I think long distance electric trucks will get trolley bus like overhead wires or a rail in the road, to get them from a to b, then use a smallish battery to travel from the main road to the final destination. I also think that private ownership of a car, parked on your drive or the works carpark for 97% of the time, will become a thing of the past. Many people living in big cities, already do without a car, partially because of parking problems, partially because of a lack of need. Car will be hired on a ‘as need’ basis.
If I could get a taxi to work, twice a week, for about the same cost as running my own car, but without the hassle of maintaining it, worry about braking down, it being stolen, or somebody crashing into it, I would.We are all dinosaurs, we like the comfort of what we know, and what we are familiar with. So were the drovers, so were the steam traction engine drivers, so were the stevedore, so were the luddites in the mills.
Change is coming. Wether you like it, or agree with it…
We haven’t even got a fully electrified rail system in this country, so I think the notion of overhead wires on our roads powering HGV’s is for the birds
That’s because it’s easier to run diesel powered trains. Adding the infrastructure is expensive, but when needs must…
the nodding donkey:
To be honest, I think electric is the way forward for most, if not all transport. It makes sense. It has been used for over a hundred years. Electric motors are much beter than ice motors. Quiet, more torque, much more torque, no need for gearboxes, no oil changes, no filters, no EGR to bypass, no cat or DPF to replace or being nicked.
The pitfalls are big, (power supply by battery or external rail or overhead lines), need for a complete overhaul or indeed build of, a new infrastructure, and the future need to deal with expired batteries. But, those are worked on, and are a matter of time.Supply of the electric, is a big issue, but one which will be sorted. A combination of wind, solar, and crucially wave and tidal power, enhanced with limited amounts of nuclear, combined with large storage units will be made to work. When Stephenson showed his first train, people were apoplectic, people would die, cows would stop giving milk, house would burn down…
When Otto first showed his internal combustion engine, propelling a carriage, they made him walk a man with a red flag in front, to warn people…I think long distance electric trucks will get trolley bus like overhead wires or a rail in the road, to get them from a to b, then use a smallish battery to travel from the main road to the final destination. I also think that private ownership of a car, parked on your drive or the works carpark for 97% of the time, will become a thing of the past. Many people living in big cities, already do without a car, partially because of parking problems, partially because of a lack of need. Car will be hired on a ‘as need’ basis.
If I could get a taxi to work, twice a week, for about the same cost as running my own car, but without the hassle of maintaining it, worry about braking down, it being stolen, or somebody crashing into it, I would.We are all dinosaurs, we like the comfort of what we know, and what we are familiar with. So were the drovers, so were the steam traction engine drivers, so were the stevedore, so were the luddites in the mills.
Change is coming. Wether you like it, or agree with it…
It can’t possibly work without the majority being nuclear and biomass fuelled.
But the Germans won’t buy the ‘limited’ nuclear lie when they see how many nuke power stations it will really take.
I’m not seeing those shouting loudest for the all electric utopia voting with their own wallets by buying an EV and replacing their domestic heating with all electric.
EV’s were there from the dawn of the motoring age and lost the race v ICE for a reason.
Which is why Boris has resorted to this ‘persuader’ stunt.
In addition to his stated aim to disincentivise the use of domestic gas by imposing punitive pricing.