How many gallons of fuel!

[rob_jonesno1]

Hi All,
How many gallons of petrol can you carry in a small 7.5 truck before you need ADR ?
I got told it was 2L, as I rerused to carry 18 x 25l tubs !
Vosa told me I need a ADR !
Thank you for your help

[thelorryist]

Think it’s diesel.dave who can help you on this one?

[dieseldave]

rob.jonesno1:
Hi All,
How many gallons of petrol can you carry in a small 7.5 truck before you need ADR ?
I got told it was 2L, as I rerused to carry 18 x 25l tubs !
Vosa told me I need a ADR !
Thank you for your help

Hi rob.jonesno1,

If petrol is packaged in 25L packages, then the maximum you can carry without an ADR licence is 13 of them.

The ADR ‘freebie’ limit for petrol is 333L, so 13 X 25L = 325, which is just nicely inside the 333L limit, but VOSA were correct to say that you would have needed an ADR licence if you’d carried 18 X 25L packages.

The above is a ‘per vehicle’ exemption, so the size of the vehicle isn’t relevant and applies equally to a transit van, a 7.5t or even an artic.

The notion of carrying dangerous goods in small packages is a different and quite separate ADR exemption known as the Limited Quantity (LQ) exemption.

To qualify for this exemption, the petrol would have to be packaged in receptacles of no more than 1L AND be contained (possibly with some other similar receptacles) within another packaging, such as a cardboard box which itself doesn’t exceed 30Kg. If that is complied with, then there is no other limit and so a full load could then be carried without an ADR licence.

Dave’s ‘Strange but true’…
Both exemptions can be used on the same vehicle at the same time.

[rog]

dieseldave:
The above is a ‘per vehicle’ exemption, so the size of the vehicle isn’t relevant and applies equally to a transit van, a 7.5t or even an artic.

Daft question probably - does that also apply to a combination such as W&D or Van + trailer ?

[dieseldave]

ROG:

dieseldave:
The above is a ‘per vehicle’ exemption, so the size of the vehicle isn’t relevant and applies equally to a transit van, a 7.5t or even an artic.

Daft question probably - does that also apply to a combination such as W&D or Van + trailer ?

Yes ROG, that also applies to a van and trailer or a W&D, since they are ‘vehicles.’

You wouldn’t get a ‘freebie’ of 333L for each of both parts of a W&D!!

[rog]

dieseldave:
You wouldn’t get a ‘freebie’ of 333L for each of both parts of a W&D!!

I said it was a daft question

[rob_jonesno1]

dieseldave:

rob.jonesno1:
Hi All,
How many gallons of petrol can you carry in a small 7.5 truck before you need ADR ?
I got told it was 2L, as I rerused to carry 18 x 25l tubs !
Vosa told me I need a ADR !
Thank you for your help

Hi rob.jonesno1,

If petrol is packaged in 25L packages, then the maximum you can carry without an ADR licence is 13 of them.

The ADR ‘freebie’ limit for petrol is 333L, so 13 X 25L = 325, which is just nicely inside the 333L limit, but VOSA were correct to say that you would have needed an ADR licence if you’d carried 18 X 25L packages.

The above is a ‘per vehicle’ exemption, so the size of the vehicle isn’t relevant and applies equally to a transit van, a 7.5t or even an artic.

The notion of carrying dangerous goods in small packages is a different and quite separate ADR exemption known as the Limited Quantity (LQ) exemption.

To qualify for this exemption, the petrol would have to be packaged in receptacles of no more than 1L AND be contained (possibly with some other similar receptacles) within another packaging, such as a cardboard box which itself doesn’t exceed 30Kg. If that is complied with, then there is no other limit and so a full load could then be carried without an ADR licence.

Dave’s ‘Strange but true’…
Both exemptions can be used on the same vehicle at the same time.

Hi Mate,
where can I get this info on headed paper so I can print it off as it is VERY important !
Thank you
Rob.

[rob_jonesno1]

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your help and info, but where can I get this printed off on headed paper ?

As I Need it urgent !

Thanks

Rob.

[merc0447]

rob.jonesno1:
Hi Dave,

Thank you for your help and info, but where can I get this printed off on headed paper ?

As I Need it urgent !

Thanks

Rob.

Just mention dieseldaves name to whoever is giving you grief!

[dieseldave]

rob.jonesno1:
Hi Dave,

Thank you for your help and info, but where can I get this printed off on headed paper ?

As I Need it urgent !

Thanks

Rob.

Hi Rob,

You could do as merc0447 said.

I’m afraid that it’s not really feasible to print this off on headed paper because it comes from several differnt parts of three law books, so please let me ask you who needs to know this information.
Their exact name isn’t necessary…

• Is it the sender of the goods?
• Is it a freight forwarder?
• Is it the owner of the vehicle?

The three people/organisations listed above usually need to employ a properly qualifed DGSA and so they shouldn’t really be challenging you on this. (ADR 2011 1.8.3.1 and 1.8.3.3)

The relevant law is The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations 2009 (as amended.) This is a set of Regulations made under The Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974, headed by the Queens Royal Crest, which hopefully the person asking the question will accept as headed notepaper.

CDG 2009 (as amended) Reg.5 requires that the relevant parts of ADR are obeyed (in the circumstances you described) for a UK national job involving the carriage of dangerous goods.
ADR 2011 8.2.1 requires drivers to hold an ADR certificate if they carry dangerous goods.

However, ADR 2011 1.1.3.6 gives an exemption from 8.2.1 (and a number of other sections of ADR) provided that the vehicle is carrying packaged dangerous goods in a total quantity of less than the relevant ADR transport Category limit for the dangerous goods in question.

We already know that the petrol was packaged in amounts of 25L, which leaves out ALL possible discussions of Limited Quantities (LQs.)

According to ADR 2011 1.1.3.6.3, the relevant ‘per vehicle’ limit for petrol is 333L because ADR 3.2.1 says that petrol is in ADR transport Category 2.

IMHO, the VOSA officer was correct in his interpretation of ADR 1.1.3.6.3 becuase 18 X 25L IS enough to require an ADR licence because 18 X 25L = 450L, which exceeds the 333L exemption limit.

I am also correct to say that you can carry 13 X 25L packages (= 325L) of petrol without an ADR licence because 325L is LESS than the 333L exemption limit in ADR 1.1.3.6.3

I hope this helps.

[rob_jonesno1]

Hi Dave,
It is the owner of the Truck and Company with 13 motor bikes in and 18 x 25L of Petrol in,
So a lot of Fuel .

Thank You
Rob.

[dieseldave]

rob.jonesno1:
Hi Dave,
It is the owner of the Truck and Company with 13 motor bikes in and 18 x 25L of Petrol in,
So a lot of Fuel .

Thank You
Rob.

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the extra info.

The motorbikes aren’t relevant, so whatever fuel is in their tanks doesn’t count towards the 333L limit.
The fuel in the motorbike tanks is carried by use of yet another (different) exemption.

In ADR, the owner of the truck is called ‘the carrier.’
It is the carrier’s responsibility to know whether ADR applies to a job or not, but it certainly isn’t the driver’s job unless the driver also owns the truck.

In normal circumstances, ADR 1.8.3.1 requires that a carrier has to be able to consult a properly qualified DGSA, so I’m afraid to say that asking a driver without a DGSA qualification to perform this function is not only ridiculous, but illegal.

For your boss’ info, the responsibility of knowing whether ADR applies to a job used to be a driver’s responsibility, but this ended on 09/05/2004.
The UK law on DGSAs has been in place since 01/01/2000.

Please don’t worry about this mate, because what you say you did was completely legal, and you were spot-on to have refused to carry 18 X 25L of petrol. It’s as simple as that.

[retired_old_fart]

Good grief, Dave, that takes me back to my last ADR course!
Is it worth pointing out that, although it is the haulier’s/shipper’s responsibility to determine whether a consignment is covered by Dangerous Goods legislation, if the driver KNEW that it should have been covered by the DG regs, he is also comitting an “Aiding and Abetting” offence?

[dieseldave]

Retired Old ■■■■:
Good grief, Dave, that takes me back to my last ADR course!
Is it worth pointing out that, although it is the haulier’s/shipper’s responsibility to determine whether a consignment is covered by Dangerous Goods legislation, if the driver KNEW that it should have been covered by the DG regs, he is also comitting an “Aiding and Abetting” offence?

Hi R O F,

The problem for the enforcement authorities here is that they couldn’t prove that the driver knew, since it isn’t the driver’s responsibility to know.

All a driver needs to say is “the sender / my boss said I’m not subject to ADR.”
It’s also worth pointing out that if a sender says there is some kind of exemption applicable, then it would be helpful in avoiding enforcement delays if it’s written on the driver’s delivery documentation (Transport Document,) something like “Load not exceeding the exemption limit in ADR 1.1.3.6.3,” or similar.

In the normal course of events, a employed driver has to obey his boss’ instructions or face a disciplinary, so IMHO it’s a good thing that the courts realise this otherwise there’d be the scenario you describe.

[retired_old_fart]

Absolutely, Dave.
One of our customers was a real stickler for the correct paperwork and if anything was deemed to be “a bit borderline” would indeed add the statement suggested by you, that the goods were NOT subject to the legislation. Certainly helped a few of our drivers.
On the other hand, we had our fair share of the “chancers” among the customer base: those who thought it was O.K. to send a nominally “empty” acid IBC back to the supplier with a gallon of the dodgy stuff slopping around in it. Or loading an IBC with D.G.s when it was ten years out of it’s date, battered to hell with a rusty cage around the plastic. Oh, and don’t forget the, “Haven’t YOU got labels, Driver?”.
There’s much to say for being retired!

[rob_jonesno1]

A Big Thank you to Dave and all !!

Thank you
Rob.