got to work at 4 a.m, job cancelled , so sat in canteen untill 12 .15 p.m when i went home , i put in in my time book as 8 hrs 15 mns duty hours, 7 hrs 45 mins break , wtd hours 30 mins[ 15 mins briefing, 15 mins de-brief .
never went near a truck so assume only need to record it in time book, am i right. ta
ady1:
got to work at 4 a.m, job cancelled , so sat in canteen untill 12 .15 p.m when i went home , i put in in my time book as 8 hrs 15 mns duty hours, 7 hrs 45 mins break , wtd hours 30 mins[ 15 mins briefing, 15 mins de-brief .
Seems resonable
ady1:
never went near a truck so assume only need to record it in time book, am i right. ta
No you are not right. You will have to make a manual record of your activities on a chart or by means of a digi tacho unit.
From the VOSA’s book on the regulations.
Manual entries
Drivers must produce a record of their whole daily working period. So when drivers are unable to operate the instrument, have not been allocated a vehicle, or are working away from the vehicle and have had to remove their tachograph chart, they must manually record their activities on the chart.
The bit in bold covers your situation.
Why record break ■■?
Why not put it as poa ■■?
nick2008:
Why record break ■■?
Why not put it as poa ■■?
What difference would that make if you get paid for both 
nick2008:
Why record break ■■?
Why not put it as poa ■■?
Why ever record POA? Neither count towards your working time hours and at least with a break you don’t have to pretend you knew how long it would last before you started it.
Paul
repton:
nick2008:
Why record break ■■?
Why not put it as poa ■■?Why ever record POA? Neither count towards your working time hours and at least with a break you don’t have to pretend you knew how long it would last before you started it.
Paul
I still cannot figure out why POA was introduced unless it is for those that do not get paid when they record break - is there another reason
ROG:
repton:
nick2008:
Why record break ■■?
Why not put it as poa ■■?Why ever record POA? Neither count towards your working time hours and at least with a break you don’t have to pretend you knew how long it would last before you started it.
Paul
I still cannot figure out why POA was introduced unless it is for those that do not get paid when they record break - is there another reason
I was told a few years back that POA could be used this way, as you no 8 hours are counted for working time if on holiday but say your firm as no work tomorrow the boss can put you on POA for the day and that day does not count under WTD,but does under EU drivers regs.
It would not be a daliy rest as you were on POA for a set period your boss would still have have to pay you. as you could be call in as some work as come in as long as your boss as told you a length of time before so say he said
Example
your normally paid for 9.5 hours a day
your boss says to you no work tomorrow take a POA of 9.5 hours and under WTD that OK cos you were told in advance but under POA you must be available to return to work that day if work comes in and at the end of the week your time sheet would say 38 hours WTD instead of 47.5 hours, your EU driver reg would be as normal and you would have to fill in a tacho and put on back POA 9.5 hours or do a manual entries on you digi card. so you have got a credit of 9.5 hours so when work picks up you can use those hours
But most companies ask you to take a holiday.
Its basically Been on call
Del
delboytwo:
ROG:
repton:
nick2008:
Why record break ■■?
Why not put it as poa ■■?Why ever record POA? Neither count towards your working time hours and at least with a break you don’t have to pretend you knew how long it would last before you started it.
Paul
I still cannot figure out why POA was introduced unless it is for those that do not get paid when they record break - is there another reason
I was told a few years back that POA could be used this way, as you no 8 hours are counted for working time if on holiday but say your firm as no work tomorrow the boss can put you on POA for the day and that day does not count under WTD,but does under EU drivers regs.
It would not be a daliy rest as you were on POA for a set period your boss would still have have to pay you. as you could be call in as some work as come in as long as your boss as told you a length of time before so say he saidExample
your normally paid for 9.5 hours a day
your boss says to you no work tomorrow take a POA of 9.5 hours and under WTD that OK cos you were told in advance but under POA you must be available to return to work that day if work comes in and at the end of the week your time sheet would say 38 hours WTD instead of 47.5 hours, your EU driver reg would be as normal and you would have to fill in a tacho and put on back POA 9.5 hours or do a manual entries on you digi card. so you have got a credit of 9.5 hours so when work picks up you can use those hours
But most companies ask you to take a holiday.
Its basically Been on call
Del
Would using rest or break in that all-day might need you but stay at home situation be regarded as illegal
Hi Rog
I
still cannot figure out why POA was introduced unless it is for those that do not get paid when they record break - is there another reason
POA is for WTD now you would have to show a 45 min brake
Brakes are for EU driving regs none as no driving
you dont have to be at home you could be sitting in the cantee at work
Like breaks and rest periods, a PoA can be taken at the workstation. Providing the worker has a reasonable amount of freedom (e.g. he can relax and read), for a known duration, this would satisfy the requirements for a PoA. Where the mobile worker knows about a delay in advance, but it is deemed prudent that the driver should remain in the cab for reasons of security or safety, this should not (in itself), disqualify this delay being recorded as a period of availability. Typical examples might include waiting at a site that is unsafe for pedestrians or staying in a vehicle carrying high value goods or cash.
as long as you fill a tacho out it is not illegal you are not doing any thing wrong
Del
ROG:
repton:
nick2008:
Why record break ■■?
Why not put it as poa ■■?Why ever record POA? Neither count towards your working time hours and at least with a break you don’t have to pretend you knew how long it would last before you started it.
Paul
I still cannot figure out why POA was introduced unless it is for those that do not get paid when they record break - is there another reason
POA was forced into the WTD by the big companies, so drivers could be at work (but not working) for longer than 48 hrs, you couldnt book a 70+ hour week and get payed for them hours without POA.
I think the EU Parliament has just passed a law stopping the use of POA’s, which will come into force around 2010 I think. From then on the 48 hour week will be the maximum allowed, averaged out over the reference period of course.
So wages will have to go up to compensate!
Smart Mart:
I think the EU Parliament has just passed a law stopping the use of POA’s, which will come into force around 2010 I think. From then on the 48 hour week will be the maximum allowed, averaged out over the reference period of course
No they haven’t. They have altered the definition of on call time for the regular WTD, The Working Time Regulations (1998), not the one that applies to us which is The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005.
The change will affect people such as junior Doctors who spend time at the hospital but are on call rather than actually working, they will shortly have to start counting that time as work.
This change doesn’t affect us as we operate under a different set of regulations and a separate amendment will be required to alter that along with all the procedures being followed such as first reading, second reading etc…
delboytwo:
Hi RogI
still cannot figure out why POA was introduced unless it is for those that do not get paid when they record break - is there another reason
POA is for WTD now you would have to show a 45 min brake
Whether you spend a whole day on POA or break there will be no need to show breaks for either set of regulations. POA doesn’t count as working time so a whole day on POA means you won’t clock 6 hours working time and will therefore not trigger a break under the WTD.
Following on from the original question, if he had been given a job at 12.15 pm and seeing as he had been on POA for the previous 8 and a quarter hours which is not counted towards “working time” could he then had gone onto work a full 15 hour shift which would add up to 23 and a quarter hours on duty
Seems ludicrous to me, or am I reading the “not counted as working time” wrong
Big Roy:
Following on from the original question, if he had been given a job at 12.15 pm and seeing as he had been on POA for the previous 8 and a quarter hours which is not counted towards “working time” could he then had gone onto work a full 15 hour shift which would add up to 23 and a quarter hours on dutySeems ludicrous to me, or am I reading the “not counted as working time” wrong
It isn’t counted as other work or driving but it is counted as time at work, or working time if you prefer.
In the scenario you outline where he has been on POA for 8.25 hours at 12:15 then his shift started at 04:00 and he will have to commence a daily rest period no later than 19:00, if he still has reduced daily rests available or 17:00 if he hasn’t.