How are the training schools teaching new drivers? [Merged]

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
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Tris:

albion1971:
Running fully loaded as opposed to empty isnt an issue. You soon get the feel of it.

I think it’s a big issue. There is a huge difference between running empty and loaded and some are not capable of making the transition safely. It is blatantly obvious by the way some drive on the roads everyday.

Training needs to involve driving a loaded wagon in all situations.

Its gonna take longer to accelerate, longer to stop, and it’s harder to corner at speed. So basically a heavy load (or an unstable load) means you’ve got to drive more carefully. That is not difficult to pick up. Once you’ve had a little scare taking a bend too quick you soon learn to be more careful next time.

How many drivers little scares on bends or other situations have turned into crash and sometimes with tragic consequences.
Is that really the best way to let people learn to drive a truck?

When I learned to drive a truck we did have a day with a fully loaded trailer, but that was only because it was the driving schools policy.

eagerbeaver:
On your lessons, you don’t do a blindside reverse as it is not required on the test. You don’t run fully loaded either, so as others have said, you simply do enough to show you have the basic skills to control the vehicle.

You can gain a full CE license, by driving a 12 tonner wag n drag auto.

The trainers don’t mind, because its a nice little earner for them, by offering a ’ conversion course '. In other words, come back for a couple of hours in an artic, and/or a manual gearbox.

Ker-ching!!

Or you could always go and find a school who have an artic with a full length trailer in the first place.

eagerbeaver:
IMO, the training and test criteria, need somewhat toughening up.

Yes would be good to have a tougher training and testing regime, but it would probably have to be an apprenticeship taking far more than 1 or 2 weeks, but months or years of training and I can’t see anybody paying.

The test is only showing a basic standard and is supposed to be built upon, would be good if companies took on newly qualified drivers and then took them for further training before letting them loose on the road, but what companies would or could afford it and still remain competitive and many newly qualified drivers seem to have to go down the agency route.

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Muckles- a lot of newbies choose the ’ easier ’ route, due to financial reasons I believe.( Not wanting to fork out for potential retests ). I personally wanted to do my CE in a manual artic with a full length trailer, and IMO this is how all CE should be conducted.

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nightline:
What a load of [zb], two weeks of training and your as good as anyone in this game, and that’s the truth.

This is the biggest load of ■■■■■■■■ I’ve ever herd ask any of the trainers on here, They train to pass the test not to drive you learn that once you’ve passed.
With an attitude like yours I wouldn’t let you loose in the oldest motor on the fleet let alone a new one.

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Just for interes.How much now 5 day training for each class.How much now retest.>■■

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eagerbeaver:
Muckles- a lot of newbies choose the ’ easier ’ route, due to financial reasons I believe.( Not wanting to fork out for potential retests ). I personally wanted to do my CE in a manual artic with a full length trailer, and IMO this is how all CE should be conducted.

What about if you get a job on Drawbars?

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Around £45 per hour for lessons. I think the test fee is £115, and you need to pay for the use of the truck. Re-tests usually end up being around £250-£300.

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If you get a job on drawbars, I would assume the company would go through the coupling/un-coupling process with you.

If you can drive an artic, you can drive a drawbar.

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And there we have the cycle. Companies won’t take on new drivers so people who would of gone for their licences aren’t bothering because they are told that they shouldn’t expect a job at the end of it. Not saying it happens to all but it does seem to be a recurring trend.

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eagerbeaver:
If you get a job on drawbars, I would assume the company would go through the coupling/un-coupling process with you.

You know what they say about assuming things?

eagerbeaver:
If you can drive an artic, you can drive a drawbar.

And why doesn’t it work the other way round?

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I would have thought that the trailer will ’ follow ’ you on a drawbar.

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For me I went from car to C&E on a five day course, a long time ago of course, but I’d already driven 7.5 tonne trucks quite a lot, so it just came naturally to me. Flatbed, zero load on it and yellow paint marks part way down to align with the yellow box. The unit as far as I can remember was a small Ford with a big window to the rear of the cab and a straightforward manual gearbox.

I prefer driving rigids nowadays, which looking at the minimal pay difference there is now, I truly wouldn’t want the hassles with messing with trailers again.

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eagerbeaver:
I would have thought that the trailer will ’ follow ’ you on a drawbar.

So would I, but it appears neither of us know and then what about reversing some of them?

And if it’s about the trailer following you then, if you passed with a 45ft tri-axle, that will have different characteristics to other trailers with less axles or axle positions.

The test is just proves you’ve reached a basic standard, really companies need to take more responsibility in training new drivers for the kit they’ll be using, but it seems that many newly qualified drivers end up on agency work and therefore turn up somewhere with very little experience to fall back on and very little time to have familiarisation training on the equipment.

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albion1971:
Are you saying you’ve never done 50 in a 30 and 83 in a 60?

I hope you are not saying you have?

If I did say I had, which I haven’t said, even though I may have or may not have, I’d have said what the majority would have said.

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tachograph:
Perhaps a mod would like to merge these threads :wink:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=129434

Done. :wink:

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eagerbeaver:
On your lessons, you don’t do a blindside reverse as it is not required on the test. You don’t run fully loaded either, so as others have said, you simply do enough to show you have the basic skills to control the vehicle.

You can gain a full CE license, by driving a 12 tonner wag n drag auto. The trainers don’t mind, because its a nice little earner for them, by offering a ’ conversion course '. In other words, come back for a couple of hours in an artic, and/or a manual gearbox.

Ker-ching!!

IMO, the training and test criteria, need somewhat toughening up. And before anyone thinks they are clever, yes I passed in a knackered 51 plate DAF CF manual artic.

So did I beavs. Who did you train with?

Don’t tell me us pair of dicks were trained by the same folk■■?

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Red Rose mate. If a pair of dicks like us an get CE, there is hope for everyone.

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Not being funny, but they haven’t been training drivers very well for years, if ever. I passed my class 1 in 2005 so only 10 years ago but it was obviously still in the days of manual gear boxes etc. However, the vast majority of “trainers” were using bare minimum spec training vehicles that would not reflect in the slightest what a new driver would progress on to driving having pass their test. A little six speed wagon and drag flat bed might have being legally acceptable, but it doesn’t and didn’t prepare people to drive a real life full size artic.
I did my training in Grimsby and chose to go with Denby as they were the only people doing the training in real life trucks at the time. My class one was in a 6x2 420 Scania Topline with a 45ft curtainsider, basically the sort of thing every one is going to be driving once they pass. I have to say though, that the real learning came afterwards when I spent several weeks double manning with my dad. As good as Denby’s truck was for preparing me for the real world, they only train you to pass the test and nothing more. I think far more emphasis should be spent on getting a feel for the vehicle, as in maneuvering it, backing it on to or in to places and the like. But the examiners aren’t bothered about that, they’ll mark you down for crossing your arms while steering, yet don’t give a flying rats ■■■■ if you can safely back in to a yard off of a road.

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So for your hourly training rate most of you want to be told everything about driving like every different gear box and what every switch is and how to open the door on every different truck, the next thing you’ll want is how to use a sat nav as part of the training. The job is all about co on and if you have the basics you will do fine, there is no job in the world that you start as a newbie and know everything, and even if your doing it for years you will find that every day is a school day, what a boring day or week if you went without learning something. The foundation is driving and that’s the easy part.

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nightline:
So for your hourly training rate most of you want to be told everything about driving like every different gear box and what every switch is and how to open the door on every different truck, the next thing you’ll want is how to use a sat nav as part of the training. The job is all about co on and if you have the basics you will do fine, there is no job in the world that you start as a newbie and know everything, and even if your doing it for years you will find that every day is a school day, what a boring day or week if you went without learning something. The foundation is driving and that’s the easy part.

I simply think that you should be taught on something that will prepare you for real life, ie a full sized truck and trailer. Rather than the smallest little day cabbed flat bed rigid with an equally small trailer. Yes some people might drive those later but most will be driving main stream trucks.

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The current DVSA test vehicle requirements are much more robust than they were years ago
gov.uk/become-lorry-bus-dri … iving-test