Monthly infringements print out came today and I’ve got 2.
1/ one week being 56 minutes over the 60 hour maximum.
On this week I had 5 hours driving to do to get home Saturday. What else am I supposed to do? I never asked to come back Saturday. I would quite happily get home EVERY Friday.
2/ working time average over 26 week reference period is 48 hours 28 minutes.
When I get multi drops doing 15 hours and 13 hours all week and then run in Saturday how I supposed to keep it down? You don’t get the same hours sat on break or POA doing multi drops like you do on one drop RDC work.
For personal reasons at the moment the company suits me in many ways.
On these infringements print outs we are supposed to sign them to say we understand and attach any print outs if available. Should I hand it back in not signed and write words to the effect of how do you expect me to keep within working time law when you plan for me like have been? I don’t want to fall out with them but I don’t want to just sign it and hand it in either.
What would you do? Or should I not be getting stressed over those amounts over my time?
Rowley010:
Monthly infringements print out came today and I’ve got 2.
1/ one week being 56 minutes over the 60 hour maximum.
On this week I had 5 hours driving to do to get home Saturday. What else am I supposed to do? I never asked to come back Saturday. I would quite happily get home EVERY Friday.
2/ working time average over 26 week reference period is 48 hours 28 minutes.
When I get multi drops doing 15 hours and 13 hours all week and then run in Saturday how I supposed to keep it down? You don’t get the same hours sat on break or POA doing multi drops like you do on one drop RDC work.
For personal reasons at the moment the company suits me in many ways.
On these infringements print outs we are supposed to sign them to say we understand and attach any print outs if available. Should I hand it back in not signed and write words to the effect of how do you expect me to keep within working time law when you plan for me like have been? I don’t want to fall out with them but I don’t want to just sign it and hand it in either.
What would you do? Or should I not be getting stressed over those amounts over my time?
First off, don’t stress. WTD is the employers responsibility if I remember rightly.
In regards to moving forward, calmly approach your transport manager and ask to discuss how you can avoid this happening in the future. Don’t get shirty or anything. Just calmly work with them to make adjustments to the way you’re scheduled
DRIVER to give EMPLOYER records of what hours have been done
EMPLOYER to keep DRIVER within the WTD rules
WTD infringements are internal only and the authorities do not seem bothered about them
Under EU law the UK must introduce then and have a body responsible - the DVSA - but nowhere does it say that authority must enforce them which is probably why the DVSA do not have any sanctions listed for WTD breaches on their sanctions list
DRIVER to give EMPLOYER records of what hours have been done
EMPLOYER to keep DRIVER within the WTD rules
WTD infringements are internal only and the authorities do not seem bothered about them
Under EU law the UK must introduce then and have a body responsible - the DVSA - but nowhere does it say that authority must enforce them which is probably why the DVSA do not have any sanctions listed for WTD breaches on their sanctions list
I fulfil my responsibility then by handing in all my daily work sheets which have everything recorded on them, and a sheet that has all the working and driving time recorded with hours added up for each week.
Rowley010:
Monthly infringements print out came today and I’ve got 2.
1/ one week being 56 minutes over the 60 hour maximum.
2/ working time average over 26 week reference period is 48 hours 28 minutes.
On these infringements print outs we are supposed to sign them to say we understand and attach any print outs if available. Should I hand it back in not signed and write words to the effect of how do you expect me to keep within working time law when you plan for me like have been? I don’t want to fall out with them but I don’t want to just sign it and hand it in either.
What would you do? Or should I not be getting stressed over those amounts over my time?
ROG:
LEGAL RESPONSIBILITIES =
DRIVER to give EMPLOYER records of what hours have been done
EMPLOYER to keep DRIVER within the WTD rules
So basically send the infringement back saying it’s not you that is guilty of the infringement, but the company for not keeping a track of you WTD hours, as you have fulfilled your obligations by providing them with the information on your hours.
I really wouldn’t bother my arse about it mate, because it aint a reality.
It’s only there to make it APPEAR that we are working reasonable hours, when in reality we are not, and assisted by the ■■■■ joke that is P.O.A.
The powers that be know this, (but will not admit it), proved by the fact that nobody knows anyone that has been done for it.
So to sum up it’s a concoction of bull ■■■■ and ■■■■■■■■.
As for using poa, I never do on principle for the above reasons.
Don’t stress about it, get the tacho on break every minute you are doing nothing, never mind that POA excrement that’s for supermarket diddies and agency clowns.
Write on the letter that they’ve given you work, you’ve done it. What are they going to do, sack you for doing the work they tell you to do?
Or you could sign the pointless letter and continue as you were but with less giving a toss.
Why are you worrying over this, just sign it and that’s the end of it. WTD is not a problem and the only reason the company gives you the infringement is to show that they are monitoring you and taking action. Its just a formality not a warning. Sign it and forget it, everyone else will.
Just write on the paperwork “Speak to my planner, he’ll be glad to explain” or the one I usually use “Take it out of my bonus”.
We’re only contracted to 60hrs a week SHIFT time, not working time, but the sentiment’s the same.
And as soon as we go over the 48hr/26wk WTD average, we just get stood down for a day, paid, as should you.
The firm should be standing you down when your 26 week reference period average is about to go over 48 hours and/or your weekly hours approach 60.
If you do say, four shifts totalling 47 hours so far in a week, then what is the point in coming in for a 5th shift (even if contracted to) if you are over the 26 week reference after only one hour on duty day 5, and totally illegal after 13 hours on shift, even though normally up to 15 hours would be ok?
It’s quite obvious where one’s hours are going if the firm decides to run each and every driver into the ground like this over hours.
The firm should be heavily fined, but it is up to the driver to press the firm to stand them down on day 5. If the firm refuses, or threatens disciplinary action on such a matter, then the firm is blatantly demanding that drivers break the law on their orders, and as such - their O licence should be revoked forthwith.
“Fear of losing one’s job” should never prevent a driver from doing the right thing. If you have to effectively throw the firm under the bus to keep your clean licence - then do so. There’s plenty of other fish in the sea.
Not obliged by any law, contract or directive to sign anything you don’t want to.
No one has been prosecuted over WTD rulings and I seriously doubt anyone ever will be.
No O licences taken away from yards for blatantly having their drivers “go over” on a regular basis? No drivers dismissed on “too many WTD infringements”?
Sometimes “Driver Prosecution” isn’t actually the worst thing that can happen.
Alternatively, we could get Brexit done and dusted, and kick all these daft EU laws into touch in due course.
If it happens again I might just pull into services wherever I am just before my time hits 60 hours and phone the office and say right your going to have send the van out with a driver to bring my truck back as I’m at my max working time for the week. They can hardly then tell me to go over can they. They will then more than likely have to pay for parking at the services as it will go over 2 hours. That will make them think twice about putting me on a Friday run where I have to run in Saturday without telling me to give me chance to check how high my hours are for that week.
Rowley010:
If it happens again I might just pull into services wherever I am just before my time hits 60 hours and phone the office and say right your going to have send the van out with a driver to bring my truck back as I’m at my max working time for the week. They can hardly then tell me to go over can they. They will then more than likely have to pay for parking at the services as it will go over 2 hours. That will make them think twice about putting me on a Friday run where I have to run in Saturday without telling me to give me chance to check how high my hours are for that week.
Two drivers, 1 to drive your vehicle and one to drive you back otherwise you are still working driving a company van back.
WTD is bollox imo.
No drivers dismissed on “too many WTD infringements”?