My mate is a fireman, and works 4 on 4 off (4 x 12 hour shifts over 8 days, which equates to a 42 hr week)
He has recently passed his class one, and wants to do some class 1 work on his 4 days off
What do you think he could legally work during his 4 off ■■
(he gets 2 x twenty day and 2 x twelve day holidays a year, along with another 7 B.H. leave days, which will help towards his WTD weekly average)
You have to satisfy the EU drivers hours rules in regards to daily and weekly rest. He has to keep a record of the days he does non-driving work so he needs to either make manual entries on the digi-card or fill in paper tachos for the days he does fire brigade work filling the work and the breaks in just as he would if it were driving.
His holidays will NOT help towards the average. They specifically wrote the law in such a way to stop employers abusing holidays to bring the hours down. A week’s holiday is counted as 48hrs for the WTD.
Satisfying the EU drivers hours he could do 2 days a week and that would see him well safe. However the WTD is a different story and depending on the shifts it could take him over the 60hr limit. As mad as it sounds, night trunking for a parcel/pallet company could be his salvation. At the local YDL it is a 13hr shift yet you only do about 7hrs work/driving in total with the rest being PoA or break which of course doesn’t count.
In order to keep fully legal with the WTD he will have to give in writing both employers details of the hours he’s done with the other so the fire brigade will have to have details of the driving and the driving job the details of the fire brigade.
Aren’t firemen exempt from WTD? Would it only apply when he’s doing driving work?
m1cks:
Aren’t firemen exempt from WTD? Would it only apply when he’s doing driving work?
This ^^^
I reckon it still counts as other work and needs recording which means rest rules would apply - I could be wrong because I have never come across this scenario …
I also reckon that rest rules would be relaxed if say he did 4 days firework, 2 days artic driving then got called in on an emergency for the firework
Fire brigades are not exempt.
This is from Hampshire brigade…
hantsfire.gov.uk/theservice/ … m?id=30444
The Working Time Regulations (WTR) were introduced in 1998 and apply to Fire and Rescue Services.
Thanks for some excellent replies already guys, much appreciated
I used to work in the fire service with my mate, I retired 3 years ago, and as I was the one who sort of encouraged him to invest in himself by taking his class one, I feel a tad responsible for not having thought through the hours side of things properly.
Years ago I used to just come straight off a shift at the fire station and jump in a wagon, but things have changed a lot now and it is much more important to be compliant these days.
The fire service is a funny job, as on his two night shifts, he is in bed between 10pm and 7:30am, and unless there is (a rare) turnout he is coming home refreshed and with a full nights sleep behind him, but of course there is always the occasional night when he will be up all night at a protracted incident.
Thanks again … any more input / replies more than welcome … 
Conor:
Fire brigades are not exempt.This is from Hampshire brigade…
hantsfire.gov.uk/theservice/ … m?id=30444
The Working Time Regulations (WTR) were introduced in 1998 and apply to Fire and Rescue Services.
Thats the normal WTD which can be fully opted out of
I remember filling a form in to opt out when I was a fireman in Merseyside F&RS
Will your mate want to tell the Inland Revenue about his lorry driving activities.?If he gets injured driving a lorry will he be looking for disability from the fire brigade or whatever they call themselves now.
alamcculloch:
Will your mate want to tell the Inland Revenue about his lorry driving activities.?If he gets injured driving a lorry will he be looking for disability from the fire brigade or whatever they call themselves now.
The firm he is going to work for are all cards in, and the fire service allows secondary employment now (actually, they always have done, going back to 30 years ago when I first joined, it was always the union that didn’t allow second jobs)
As for injury, if he is inured off duty, whether in other employment or just walking down the street, then it is nothing to do with the fire service, and if he had to leave the fire service as a result of an injury off duty, all he would get off them is the proportion of the pension he has paid in, as a pension, when he is 60, as it would be frozen until that time.
I currently do this myself, and whilst my work as a firefighter is indeed opted out of the WTD, any driving work is not, so all work done has to be counted. The opt out only applies to that employment that is opted out, not all employment.
ROG:
Thats the normal WTD which can be fully opted out of
Still doesn’t help with the mobile workers version. Opt out means you opt out of the limits for work and rest, not that the hours don’t count and the hours done under the WTD even if opted out still apply to the RTD.
If a fireman is on shift for 12 hrs, is that all work even if he spent 7 hours in bed? If not wouldn’t he be ok doing 2 days at least on his 4 days off, or 3 if he takes 24 off?
espresso:
My mate is a fireman, and works 4 on 4 off (4 x 12 hour shifts over 8 days, which equates to a 42 hr week)He has recently passed his class one, and wants to do some class 1 work on his 4 days off
What do you think he could legally work during his 4 off ■■
(he gets 2 x twenty day and 2 x twelve day holidays a year, along with another 7 B.H. leave days, which will help towards his WTD weekly average)
Best he could do would probably be 2 days each week providing he can comply with the daily and weekly rest requirements. DO 4 days on main job, two days driving and two days off. He would have to watch the weekly rest to ensure the required regular rest period fell in the correct week. The main consideration rather than the WTD would be the EU Driver’s Regulations as his time spent on duty as a fireman cannot be counted as rest because he is not free to dispose of his time, even if he spends most of the shift in bed when there isn’t an alarm.