Boss says just dont put your tacho in until your ready to leave the yard, in other words do your daily checks and load off the card im not that stupid !!!.
If I get to a stage where my hours are too much what do I do do they need to give me time off?, or cut my daily hours up to the 1st of July.
Im contracted for 45 hours a week but im doing in excess of 48 every week our other driver is Mr Perfect and puts his tacho in about 20 minutes after he starts, loads off the card tips off the card etc loads on break, runs about like a headless chicken so his hours are down but as usual he is the typical I do all the work kind of guy.
Im one of them hated ■■■■■■■■ that does 40 on a single you know the ones law abiding drivers hated by the majority .
jammymutt:
Boss says just dont put your tacho in until your ready to leave the yard, in other words do your daily checks and load off the card im not that stupid !!!.
VOSA will have you for not doing so - they expect to see something between 10 and 20 mins before driving commences - you and boss will be in deep ■■■
jammymutt:
Im contracted for 45 hours a week but im doing in excess of 48 every week our other driver is Mr Perfect and puts his tacho in about 20 minutes after he starts, loads off the card tips off the card etc loads on break, runs about like a headless chicken so his hours are down but as usual he is the typical I do all the work kind of guy.
Is this WORK (driving + other work added together) or the total of shift times you are referring to
POA and BREAKS do not count as WORK
Doing over 48 every week is likely to catch up to the point where you will need to reduce for the 17 or 26 weeek reference period average.
I say likely as there are ways of reducing it by using some of the annual leave - only 20 days of the 28 days needs to be counted towards the average - the other 8 days do not need to be counted so a bit of clever mannagement of that time could be useful.
One major consideration - the RT(WTD)R 48 average for any driver is not checked upon by any authority unless a major incident occurs.
There are only two things you can do as far as I can see, either find a way to reduce your working hours legally by working less hours or having time off, or bend the rules a little.
Not very helpful I know but I think you already know the choices
ROG:
I say likely as there are ways of reducing it by using some of the annual leave - only 20 days of the 28 days needs to be counted towards the average - the other 8 days do not need to be counted so a bit of clever mannagement of that time could be useful.
The additional 0.8 week’s statutory annual leave entitlement (1.6 weeks from 1 April 2009) is a domestic requirement provided for by regulation 13 A of the 1998 Regulations and does not have to be considered as ‘neutral’. This additional leave can be recorded as non-working time when calculating weekly working hours. This is similar to how contractual leave in excess of the statutory minimum can be treated.
If I remember correctly Alex works for a Jewson good builders merchant, we have a local Buildbase and they open at 7.30. I imagine the drivers start at the same time and are probably contracted to do so.
33 years ago when I worked at United carriers as a C&D driver, we started work at 8am until 1700, but had to use a clocking on machine as well as a log book, the DOT checked that the times tallied then.
jammymutt:
I never use POA never have never will if im in the lorry im at work, 48 is after all breaks so it inlcudes driving time and other work.
I knew that !!!
Perhaps the answer lies within ?
Why have never, and will never use POA ?
Because he uses break instead, very little point in using POA as more periods qualify for break than they do POA. I’ve never used it either. His working time is after all his breaks, he said so in the bit you quoted.
ROG:
I say likely as there are ways of reducing it by using some of the annual leave - only 20 days of the 28 days needs to be counted towards the average - the other 8 days do not need to be counted so a bit of clever mannagement of that time could be useful.
Are you serious?
The traffic office can’t plan the job so Jammy stays under the WTD average and you are suggesting he uses his holiday entitlement to bring it back below 48 hours? Are you serious, use his holidays because they are incompetent? You couldn’t make it up.
If he needs to reduce his hours because they have cocked-up then they will just have to give him a day, or days off, to allow him to comply with the WTD requirements. There is no way on this earth I would use some of my holiday entitlement to solve the companies problem. Sorry, but to me this idea is right up there with paying to park the bosses motor out of your night out money.
ROG:
I say likely as there are ways of reducing it by using some of the annual leave - only 20 days of the 28 days needs to be counted towards the average - the other 8 days do not need to be counted so a bit of clever mannagement of that time could be useful.
Coffeeholic:
Are you serious?
The traffic office can’t plan the job so Jammy stays under the WTD average and you are suggesting he uses his holiday entitlement to bring it back below 48 hours? Are you serious, use his holidays because they are incompetent? You couldn’t make it up.
If he needs to reduce his hours because they have cocked-up then they will just have to give him a day, or days off, to allow him to comply with the WTD requirements. There is no way on this earth I would use some of my holiday entitlement to solve the companies problem. Sorry, but to me this idea is right up there with paying to park the bosses motor out of your night out money.
You forgot the important bit…
ROG:
One major consideration - the RT(WTD)R 48 average for any driver is not checked upon by any authority unless a major incident occurs.
ROG:
I say likely as there are ways of reducing it by using some of the annual leave - only 20 days of the 28 days needs to be counted towards the average - the other 8 days do not need to be counted so a bit of clever mannagement of that time could be useful.
Coffeeholic:
Are you serious?
The traffic office can’t plan the job so Jammy stays under the WTD average and you are suggesting he uses his holiday entitlement to bring it back below 48 hours? Are you serious, use his holidays because they are incompetent? You couldn’t make it up.
If he needs to reduce his hours because they have cocked-up then they will just have to give him a day, or days off, to allow him to comply with the WTD requirements. There is no way on this earth I would use some of my holiday entitlement to solve the companies problem. Sorry, but to me this idea is right up there with paying to park the bosses motor out of your night out money.
You forgot the important bit…
ROG:
One major consideration - the RT(WTD)R 48 average for any driver is not checked upon by any authority unless a major incident occurs.
So who cares…
If it wasn’t an issue for Jammy, i.e who cares, then he wouldn’t have been asking about it so the who cares thing doesn’t apply. Your solution was he used his holidays to get the company out of a hole which makes you a trumpet.
Coffeeholic:
If it wasn’t an issue for Jammy, i.e who cares, then he wouldn’t have been asking about it so the who cares thing doesn’t apply. Your solution was he used his holidays to get the company out of a hole which makes you a trumpet.
If he is likely to lose money over this then perhaps using the solution I suggested for HIS benefit would not be such a bad idea■■?
jammymutt:
I never use POA never have never will if im in the lorry im at work, 48 is after all breaks so it inlcudes driving time and other work.
I knew that !!!
Perhaps the answer lies within ?
Why have never, and will never use POA ?
Because he uses break instead, very little point in using POA as more periods qualify for break than they do POA. I’ve never used it either. His working time is after all his breaks, he said so in the bit you quoted.
Ah - but jammy also said “if I’m in the lorry I’m at work” He hasn’t said that he uses break instead of POA.
For some people, POA is useful. For instance - if you put in a break too early in the day, instead of using POA, that can force you to take an additional break that you might prefer not to. The difference between getting home or not getting home ?
In this world of idiocy, there may well be drivers paid for POA, but not paid for breaks. I know myself of a company (Well, idiot clerk) suggesting drivers ought to be paid by reference to the download information, similar to a factory worker clocking-in system. That particular system would provide a very easy means of deducting all those little 1, 2, 4, and 5 minutes that could so easily have been paid as POA.
jammymutt:
I never use POA never have never will if im in the lorry im at work, 48 is after all breaks so it inlcudes driving time and other work.
I knew that !!!
Perhaps the answer lies within ?
Why have never, and will never use POA ?
Because he uses break instead, very little point in using POA as more periods qualify for break than they do POA. I’ve never used it either. His working time is after all his breaks, he said so in the bit you quoted.
Ah - but jammy also said “if I’m in the lorry I’m at work” He hasn’t said that he uses break instead of POA.
jammymutt:
I never use POA never have never will if im in the lorry im at work, 48 is after all breaks so it inlcudes driving time and other work.
dambuster:
For some people, POA is useful. For instance - if you put in a break too early in the day, instead of using POA, that can force you to take an additional break that you might prefer not to. The difference between getting home or not getting home ?
True, although in my case if I don’t want to use break at a particular time, which isn’t likely as I get paid for all breaks after 45 minutes so an additional break is money in my pocket, I just leave it on other work because I don’t really bother with the WTD.
Coffeeholic:
If it wasn’t an issue for Jammy, i.e who cares, then he wouldn’t have been asking about it so the who cares thing doesn’t apply. Your solution was he used his holidays to get the company out of a hole which makes you a trumpet.
If he is likely to lose money over this then perhaps using the solution I suggested for HIS benefit would not be such a bad idea■■?
Now then ROG, I can’t see how your solution is … err… a solution at all.
It seems from your post that you might have overlooked the definitions and responsibilities parts of the Regs (again. )
Annual leave is quite a precious commodity and has to be earned, so I can’t see the sense of using that to correct a situation that the traffic office has made for itself.
Suppose Jammy took your advice and did the firm a favour… do you honestly think they’d give him the time off if he’d used his holidays for their benefit, if he then wished to actually go on a holiday?? Hmm… I think not.
Now I might just be old and cynical, but I’m afraid (if it were me) that I’d see that situation as the thin end of a wedge, because I reckon the traffic office would very quickly come to expect a driver to ‘help out’ or cooperate in that way every time they messed up.
The thing that I think trumps your theory is for me to ask you:
Whose responsibility is it to plan journeys and working time so as to comply with the relevant Regs??
There we are, a nice easy question for you.
Once you’ve answered that, here’s another question: … Would you honestly use your own annual leave in the way you suggested?? Suppose you did, then Mrs ROG asks to go away on holiday… You’d answer by saying to her that you’ve used up so many separate days of your holidays for the boss’ benefit that you don’t have enough days left to take her away.
I believe that you can buy a kennel quite cheaply on eBay.
Coffeeholic:
If it wasn’t an issue for Jammy, i.e who cares, then he wouldn’t have been asking about it so the who cares thing doesn’t apply. Your solution was he used his holidays to get the company out of a hole which makes you a trumpet.
If he is likely to lose money over this then perhaps using the solution I suggested for HIS benefit would not be such a bad idea■■?
Why would he lose money, if they give him days off to bring his hours down he will have to be paid.
.
