Hours and shifts again.... :oops:

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

Ok, so if I have 5 days of 12h shifts, that’s 60 hours. Now, as I can only do 90 hours a fornight this means I can only do 30 next week? Which means there is going to be at least one day where I can’t work.

My “basic” agency shift is 8 hours, so a 4 day week is 32 hours. They don;t make this easy for me do they :open_mouth: :unamused: :unamused:

One option I have is next week to go onto nights, which shouldn’t be more than 45h a week.

If I’m working on this contract I’m going to be doing 12-13h days. Which isn’t too bad but it’s back breaking work deliverying white goods. The night trunking stuff (inna 7.5t :laughing: :laughing: ) is deliverying what the bendy’s didn’t have room for.

But it does mean I can get 5 days of shift with them. And for the next 2 months nights are OK for me as my family are all away :cry: :confused:

Another question I have in this jumbled post, is, is it worth working 4 x 12h shifts or 5 x 8? I would have thought 4 x 12, as I have 4 full days and another day to recover :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Not that I’m lazy, but it’s hard work, even though we’re double manned. :unamused: [/url]

2

You are confusing driving hours with working hours.

You can drive for 90 hours in a fortnight and if you have already done 5 x 12 hour shifts driving, you need to go directly to jail & do not collect 200 quid

3

I’m getting on average 5h driving a day on this contract. As we’re double manning and all.

I was told I have a maximum of 60 hours shift time a week. Does this mean I can be doing 60 hours of shift time a week and only 45h drive time to be “legal” ■■ :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

4

Saratoga:
I was told I have a maximum of 60 hours shift time a week. Does this mean I can be doing 60 hours of shift time a week and only 45h drive time to be “legal” ■■ :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

Under the WTD you can work - work is driving and other work - a maximum of 60 hours in a week but that does not include breaks or POA, so your total shift time can be longer than this. Using the split daily rest system for instance you could do 6 x 15 hour days and thus have 90 hours of shift time in a week. You say you are double manned and are doing around 5 hours driving in the 12 - 13 hour shift. Presuming the other driver is also doing 5 hours driving then you are having at least 5 hours of POA or break, depending how you book it, each day, while they are driving. Those 5 hours each day do not count toward the 60 hour weekly WTD limit so you will be working around 35 - 40 hours, in a 5 day week and that is well within both the 60 hour and 48 hour average required by the WTD.

You can drive for a maximum of 90 hours in a fortnight and 56 in a week, the 90 and 56 are just driving time and do not include other work, breaks or POA. You are driving around 25 hours a week and 50 a fortnight so well within the limits imposed by the driver’s hours regulations.

5

Right. Ok. Um.

He both drive for up to 5 hours and the non drive time is ‘Other Work’. We both end up taking about 45m of break each throughout the day but in different times. Mine when he is driving and v/v. He often has to do additional tasks that I’m not trained in as well so I get some time on my own while he does the wet/dry installs.

I think I understand what you’re saying.

I also see this is yet another post I’ve had moved from Newbie into the Safety forum :blush: :blush: :blush:

So I can drive for a max of 90h in a fortnight, averaging out at 45h a week.

What about SHIFT time. Is there a max per week, per fortnight. As for “Averaging out”. What is the max timeframe for that? 2 weeks? 26w?

:unamused: My brain hurts again :frowning: :unamused:

6

Saratoga:
So I can drive for a max of 90h in a fortnight, averaging out at 45h a week.

Yes and No. You can drive for a maximum 56 hours in the first week

What about SHIFT time. Is there a max per week, per fortnight. As for “Averaging out”. What is the max timeframe for that? 2 weeks? 26w?

You can average 48 hours work which doesnt include breaks, rest or POA per week over the reference period

:unamused: My brain hurts again :frowning: :unamused:

Driving Hours and WTD are different. You now have to use 2 pieces of paper to work it out…

Im sure Coffee will post you a link to the idiots guide :stuck_out_tongue:

7

Saratoga:
Right. Ok. Um.

He both drive for up to 5 hours and the non drive time is ‘Other Work’.

Only the time when you are doing other work, loading, unloading etc. needs to be counted as other work.

Saratoga:
We both end up taking about 45m of break each throughout the day but in different times. Mine when he is driving and v/v.

That’s fine but you can book all the time when he is driving as break so you are getting more than 45 minutes, which doesn’t count toward your total working time.

Saratoga:
He often has to do additional tasks that I’m not trained in as well so I get some time on my own while he does the wet/dry installs.

So that is even more break or POA time.

Saratoga:
I think I understand what you’re saying.

I try to make it clear but not always successfully…

Saratoga:
So I can drive for a max of 90h in a fortnight, averaging out at 45h a week.

There is no averaging required for driving time, simply a maximum of 56 hours a week and 90 a fortnight. Obviously if you did reach 56 hours driving in a week then you would only have 34 hours available the following week.

Saratoga:
What about SHIFT time. Is there a max per week, per fortnight.

There is no maximum shift time, either daily, weekly or fortnightly, mentioned in the regulations, WTD or Driver’s Hours. Shift length is calculated from the amount of rest required in a 24 hour period. This is 11 hours, which can be reduced to a minimum of 9 hours three times between weekly rest periods. 11 hours rest means a maximum shift length of 13 hours and taking the minimum 9 hours means a shift length of 15 hours. 24 - 11= 13 and 24 -9 =15. There is a further option to split daily rest but that won’t affect you at the moment so it is best ignored.

Taking these daily limits and working it over a 6 day working week it would come to a maximum of 84 hours. 3 x 15 hour shifts and 3 x 13 hour shifts.

Saratoga:
As for “Averaging out”. What is the max timeframe for that? 2 weeks? 26w?

There is no averaging out required for shift lengths, only for working time and only for the WTD not the tacho rules. The period for this is usually either 17 or 26 weeks depending on what the company have opted for and agreed with the workforce.

In your current work you are not going to come anywhere near the limits for driving time - you are only driving around 50 hours per fortnight, or working time given the amount of time you spend on break while the other guy drives - maximum of 7 - 8 hours work per day x 5 days per week = 40 hours per week, well within the average.

You are so far within the WTD limits that I wouldn’t even worry about learning those regulations at the moment. Concentrate on getting to grips with the tacho rules first as they are the more important ones and the ones more likely to get you into trouble if you contravene them.

8

Thanks Coffee & everyone :wink:

I need to keep better records of my work methinks. More columns on the spreadsheet now. Also worth keeping a small notebook to keep track of things.

I’ve had a long 4 days on this job. Most people can probably get better and quicker into it, but multidrop doing 20 drops a day on a 2 manned 7.5t delivering white goods is hard work. 12-14 hours a day, I’ve done 55hrs in 4 days.

Unfortunately the problem with being tired after work is you tend to make more accidents :blush: I’ve had Friday off to get the car repaired after, ahem, not recognising a give way sign :blush: :blush: .

No major damage, just dented pride, annoyance and personal stupidity. Oh, and the cost of car repairs

Hopefully be better next week. Thanks for you’re help :angry: :imp: :unamused: