Ok I’m just being lazy here ,.cba to Google and calculate, so apologies in advance.
Just thought somebody might know about holiday entitlement in relationship to days worked over the year.
If you do, and off the top of your head, 2 questions.
If I work a 4 day week (Wed to Sat) every week…
What is annual holiday entitlement?
Or
If I work same 4 day week, (Wed to Sat) but the 4th day Satutday is considered and paid as overtime.
What is the annual holiday entitlement.
Thanks in advance (to those who don’t say ‘‘Just google it, and work it out yourself you idle ■■■■’’ )
You’re entitled to 28 days, 5.6 weeks pro-rata’d. There is no right to paid bank holidays, this is important as it means an employer can choose to take the bank holidays they pay you for out of that entitlement.
So if you work four days you’re entitled to 5.6 x 4 = 22.4 days. If Saturday is classed as overtime though it would be 5.6x3 days = 16.8 days. If you’re paid bank holidays it can be taken out of those 16.8/22.4 days but as you don’t work Mondays I suspect they don’t.
Overtime doesn’t have to be included when working out how many days you are entitled to or how much you’re entitled to per week but where an employee normally works overtime as we do in this job does have to be included in working out how much money you’re entitled to HOWEVER they only have to do that for four of the 5.6 weeks. This is because holiday pay rules are based on EU Working Time Directive rules and that states a minimum entitlement to only 4 weeks paid leave only so employers are free to choose whether to include overtime or not when working out holiday pay for the additional 1.6 weeks the UK gets above that.
When you’re on variable hours like we are and/or overtime is included the amount in pounds and pence you’re entitled to for a week off, or in your case 3/4 days, is taken as an average of your weekly pay for the previous 52 weeks - used to be 12 weeks but that changed from April 2020.
Conor:
You’re entitled to 28 days, 5.6 weeks pro-rata’d. There is no right to paid bank holidays, this is important as it means an employer can choose to take the bank holidays they pay you for out of that entitlement.
So if you work four days you’re entitled to 5.6 x 4 = 22.4 days. If Saturday is classed as overtime though it would be 5.6x3 days = 16.8 days. If you’re paid bank holidays it can be taken out of those 16.8/22.4 days but as you don’t work Mondays I suspect they don’t.
Overtime doesn’t have to be included when working out how many days you are entitled to or how much you’re entitled to per week but where an employee normally works overtime as we do in this job does have to be included in working out how much money you’re entitled to HOWEVER they only have to do that for four of the 5.6 weeks. This is because holiday pay rules are based on EU Working Time Directive rules and that states a minimum entitlement to only 4 weeks paid leave only so employers are free to choose whether to include overtime or not when working out holiday pay for the additional 1.6 weeks the UK gets above that.
When you’re on variable hours like we are and/or overtime is included the amount in pounds and pence you’re entitled to for a week off, or in your case 3/4 days, is taken as an average of your weekly pay for the previous 52 weeks - used to be 12 weeks but that changed from April 2020.
That pretty much answers what I needed to know …thanks a lot.
I thought I was being sold short after speaking to the proverbial ‘‘bloke in the pub’’ , but it appears not. …just as well I didn’t kick off.
Thanks again.
If you get 26-30 days holiday per year, measured in days then it is better to be on a 4 day contract, or even better a 3 day one - if you can get it.
30 days holiday amounts to TEN weeks off each year - IF you are on a 3-day contract.
If you are paid say, “5-6 weeks” holiday measured in weeks - then it is obviously better to be on a 5 or 6 day week contract…
Strangely, these are far more common, with headline apparently “decent” looking salaries - actually nothing special, once you work out that your basic hours has “overtime built in” making up the numbers…
Winseer 5.6 weeks at 3 days per week is still 5.6 weeks. Just like it’s 5.6 weeks at 5 days a week.
You’re extremely unlikely to see a three day job with 30 days holiday. What you might see is 30 days ‘pro-rata’ so that an allocation at 5 days is 30 days, but if you do a day less your allocation would reduce to 24 days and by an other 6 days for every day less contracted.
But guess what… using full weeks and not odd days…
30 days holiday on a five day week is… six working weeks.
24 days holiday on a four day week is… six working weeks.
18 days holiday on a four day week is… six working weeks.
toonsy:
Winseer 5.6 weeks at 3 days per week is still 5.6 weeks. Just like it’s 5.6 weeks at 5 days a week.
You’re extremely unlikely to see a three day job with 30 days holiday. What you might see is 30 days ‘pro-rata’ so that an allocation at 5 days is 30 days, but if you do a day less your allocation would reduce to 24 days and by an other 6 days for every day less contracted.
But guess what… using full weeks and not odd days…
30 days holiday on a five day week is… six working weeks.
24 days holiday on a four day week is… six working weeks.
18 days holiday on a four day week is… six working weeks.
I think you get my point.
All I’m saying, is wouldn’t it be great if you could have the 3 day working week - with 30 days holiday measured in days, rather than weeks, 'cos you’d get 10 weeks holiday instead of 5.6 weeks…
The secret of being able to get that - is part down to being able to take odd days holiday…
When I was put onto uneven shifts as a full timer, another dodge is that you then book your longest shift day off as an “odd day off”, thus not only side-stepping in my case a 13.5 hour shift, but it also improved my overtime aggregate, permitting me to gain “Hours against” more slowly than other drivers who were senior to me, and could never get any plumb overtime, because their “built in” overtime took their aggregate too far ahead all the time…
Stopping “Odd days off” - prevented that, but also made “shifting to agency” rather MORE viable, where such practice is now considered a “perk of the job”…, as is “taking money” rather than an actual day off for “Holidays” too…
toonsy:
You’re extremely unlikely to see a three day job with 30 days holiday. What you might see is 30 days ‘pro-rata’ so that an allocation at 5 days is 30 days, but if you do a day less your allocation would reduce to 24 days and by an other 6 days for every day less contracted.
We get 33 days a year. Agency used to do it where you got 33 days regardless of how many days a week you worked but the pay was pro-rata’d so say you only do 3 days a week and you earn £100 a day typically, you’d get 33 days leave the same as those doing 5 days but you’d only be paid £60 per day so over a year you’d end up getting exactly the same as if you’d got 19.8 days at your normal daily rate. They changed it a couple of years ago to pro-rata the days as well as I suspect payroll got fed up of trying to explain to people why they only got paid say the £60 per day when they took holiday when they earn £100 every day.
It is a fairer system to be awarded hours of holiday pay per so many hours worked accruing it then…
Why should someone working six eight hour shifts accrue the same number of days off as “Paid Time Off” as a 5/6/5/6 working driver who works shifts rather longer than 8 hours - each and every day?
3x15hrs+3x13hrs - if accrued on hours - is a much fairer system - no?
Then there’s the issue of when you can actually take any accrued holiday…
On agency, you accrue “odd days” made up of the money rather than the time for such holiday shifts.
This means you MUST be able to book “odd days off”.
…It also means you never get told "Sorry bud, senior driver has picked August, next senior has picked Easter, third senior has taken Christmas…etc… That means you have the choice of a compulsory weeks off in February and November. Have a nice holiday!"
As soon as people realize they can lose a rock solid full time job as easily as a zero hours one goes…Maybe there will be some kind of “Renaissance” in the “Gig Economy”…?
Winseer:
Why should someone working six eight hour shifts accrue the same number of days off as “Paid Time Off” as a 5/6/5/6 working driver who works shifts rather longer than 8 hours - each and every day?
3x15hrs+3x13hrs - if accrued on hours - is a much fairer system - no?
No. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. You do realise that the person doing eight hour shifts will receive considerably less holiday pay then a person doing five or six twelve hour shifts don’t you?
Personally speaking the amount of holidays other people get doesn’t even cross my radar.
Winseer:
It is a fairer system to be awarded hours of holiday pay per so many hours worked accruing it then…
Gets my vote on agency at least. I worked for two agencies, Driver Hire and a small one man band, that would pay an amount per hour every hour you worked into a holiday pot. When you wanted to take time off you asked them how much was in the pot and just let them know how much of that pot you wanted paying. It’s the only system of holiday pay on agency where i’ve not felt there’s the possibility of being screwed over because you could just look at the gross pay to date on your wage slip and work out how much you should’ve earned by that point.
Winseer:
It is a fairer system to be awarded hours of holiday pay per so many hours worked accruing it then…
Gets my vote on agency at least. I worked for two agencies, Driver Hire and a small one man band, that would pay an amount per hour every hour you worked into a holiday pot. When you wanted to take time off you asked them how much was in the pot and just let them know how much of that pot you wanted paying. It’s the only system of holiday pay on agency where i’ve not felt there’s the possibility of being screwed over because you could just look at the gross pay to date on your wage slip and work out how much you should’ve earned by that point.
So why the need to ASK how much holiday pay had accrued? It’s not rocket science.
In my experience agencies can sometimes be a bit creative with their calculations regarding holiday pay. If you send them a calculation and start the employment tribunal process through ACAS, they soon change their tune, albeit through gritted teeth.
,.cba to Google and calculate, so apologies in advance.
)
, but it appears not. 
…just as well I didn’t kick off.